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#21 Beowulf

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Posted 04 April 2008 - 11:00 PM

So? It's the gameplay that counts and WarCraft/StarCraft play better than C&C does. Far easier than building one thing at a time.

Interface is gameplay. Warcraft and Starcraft and slow and boring games, C&C (With it's leet interface :D ) is far smoother, easier and much more fun. It has way more interesting sides to play with. The only thing cool about Starcraft is Protoss and Warcraft is just... fantasy.

WC/SC is only slow because the economy is vastly different. And even then, it's only really slow if you suck at base expansion.

Oh and I guess you've not played C&C3? You can build more than one thing at a time in that game, even with C&C sidebar building. And yes, it's a great game.

I have the TW Kane Edition and Kane's Wrath. I have played C&C3 but it's still the same as its predecessors with that one difference.

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#22 Allied General

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 12:02 PM

wasn't those crane buildings or whatever they call extremely buggy in 1.0 hence bug fix to stop turtle spam?

any economy not involving tiberium, ore is slow =p
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#23 OmegaBolt

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 01:57 PM

They weren't buggy, it's just in the original C&C3 you could build defences via the Cranes. They stopped that in one of patch, so you can only build defences from ConYards.

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#24 KaRsKiN

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 01:16 PM

Hmmm, i hate to resurect an old thread, but i wanted my 2 pennies worth.

I always veiw it like this;

Red Alert: Kane is a Soviet advisor to Stalin right? Yes he is, but he has a secret agenda, he's the leader of the Brotherhood of Nod, a secret and ancient organisation. Nod and (possibly) kane have existed for thousand's of years, but he has been waiting for the right time to reveal himself. To do this he would need a stable economic base and a "front" for the brotherhood to expand. This came in the form of the Soviet Union. By assimilating Europe and thus become a massive world superpower, Kane could establish funding and start to make Nod what it is today.

We know this because this is what westwood intended, thats why the cutscene at the Soviet ending with Kane and his accomplice ok?

Therefore we assume that the Soviet ending is canon right?

In between Red Alert and Tiberian Dawn: Sometime in this period, Kane discovers Tiberium at the Tiber river, and names it after Emporer Tiberius (or he names it after the Tiber River, take your pick, i choose the Kane version because Kane seems to be lore on Tiberium). Kane for some reason seems to know a lot about this mineral, and he seemed to know it would arrive (at what point he learns this i don't know, either between RA and TD or between TD and TS). So, Nod perfects a way to harvest this mineral and becomes massively wealthy through it, to the point where it becomes a displaced state of sorts, a Superpower with no territorial base. All the time it is using the Soviet Union as a front for this, so as not to arouse too much suspicion.

Right, also at this time, running alongside what i've just wrote. The United Nations realises it can ill afford another war similar to the one in Red Alert, also it realises it needs a rapid reaction force to deal with international terrorism. This comes in the form of Black Ops 9 (i think the name is) which would eventually become the Global Defense Initiative. The GDI aims to protect the world from terror and opression and many states send military units to be part of this new task force (including Russia after it dissolves from the Soviet Union) The UN realise Tiberiun for what it is, a dangerous chemical thats extremely dangerous to human life, and as such take measures to halt or delay its expansion.

Now we come to Tiberian Dawn: It's 1990, Kane siezes the oppurtunity to reveal Nod to the world, he leaves the Soviet Union to fend for itself, leading to its eventual collapse and the subsequent seperation (similar to the real life event). Nod markets itself as the protector of the people and as such many Thirld World countries voice open support for the cause, Nod uses extensive propaganda techniques to gain support and as such Nod's already vast bank account soars. GDI see's Nod for what it is and begins a military campaign to stop Kane and his ultimate plan (the same plan that involves every Tiberian game). Which they thwart by destroying his temple, thus ending TD and leading to Tiberian Sun.

That is the official Canon, and the idea that makes the most sense, based on the evidence we have in FMV's and Literature.

Now Red Alert 2. Red Alert 2 is a spin off game created by EA/Westwood that wasn't meant to fit in with official Canon (as it couldn't exist at the same time as Tiberian Dawn). It was meant to be a 'what if?' game, what if the Allies won? Russia would be defeated, Premier Romanov (or whatever his name is) was installed into power by the Allies and they left Russia to rebuild. Soon Russian pride and thrist for revenge lead them to invade the USA and the events of Red Alert 2 and subsequently Yuri's Revenge took place.

Red Alert 2 was meant to be a cheesy/camp spin off title that wasn't intended to be Canon. Westwood created the Tiberium niverse, it was there brainchild. The series started with Tiberium and will end with Tiberium. The same goes for Red Alert 3, it follows the spin off series of Red Alert 2.

C&C Generals isn't cannon at all and isn't worth mentioning in this topic, it was created by EA to be a fresh start to Command & Conquer, they ballsed it up and realised people wanted the original story back.

So, what we get is this;

Official Canon (Tiberium Universe): Red Alert ---- Tiberian Dawn ---- Tiberian Sun ---- Tiberium Wars

Red Alert 2 Spin-off: Red Alert 2 (which should really have a different name) ---- Yuri's Revenge ---- Red Alert 3

Generals spin off: C&C Generals ---- Generals: Zero Hour.


That it the most logical, and probably offical progression of the games, otherwise it just gets complicated with questions like

"Red Alert 2 comes just before TD? So where are the prism tanks in TD?"

That is because it's two different storylines, not one. They should be treated as seperate games franchises, not the same.

Im sorry for such a long post :xd: but thats just my opinion on the matter, and im sure a lot of people will agree :)

KaRsKiN out
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#25 some_weirdGuy

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 07:43 AM

maybe no prism because soviets won and allied tech we never developed further?
(thus GDI with mammoth tanks and using heavy tanks, instead of the allied base of using light but high tech stuff)

or the technology just got outdated?

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#26 KaRsKiN

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 07:53 AM

It's just two seperate storylines, theres no way that they could exist at the same time really, not without a lot of unanswered questions and dead ends.

Basically, RA2 was a spin off title, and im sure some guy at Westwood said it wasn't cannon in an interview.

RA was the prequel to TD, not RA2.

EDIT: The tech in RA2 was better than in TD, so it wouldn't be outdated would it?

Edited by KaRsKiN, 23 April 2008 - 07:54 AM.

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#27 Allied General

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 06:44 PM

actually 53% of ex-westwood staff would disagree.

Officially its not related but originally it was with cnc3 incursion.

Just go on petro forums
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#28 KaRsKiN

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 08:20 AM

Hmmm, i didn't realise that. It didn't fit very well into the Storyline though to say its supposed to? :S
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#29 1950SovietWriter

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 04:27 PM

:) OK i should list the entire History, Please read: :thumbsupsmiley:
RA is the prequel of TD-TS-TW, but the allieds win (would be stupid, when the soviets would win, because they have vastly different technology than Nod, remeber Mammoth and Iron Curtain. The Allied victory is offical and canon, that was said by Ishmael, one of Petroglyph's workers, who also was a programmer of C&C.

The Technology in RA2 wasn't the really factor for the cut of the RA2-TD gap, but the STUPID story twist behind that (Errrrrmmm... Yuri, third World war, Chicago gets Nuked, Romanov, no Nod, no Black ops 9 :rolleyes:

Generals was orginally a Fun RTS with all Factions from RA and Tiberium universe, in addition to China, Mongolia, Afrika, GLA and USA. :thumbsupsmiley:

I think the Tech was in RA1 even MUCH MORE than in RA2 (Fu... Volkov the Cyborg, Mobile Shadowgenerators, Phasetransport, Super Mammoths in Aftermath, Tesla tanks in RA1 Counterstrike with wider range than the RA2's one, Modern SAMS instead of primitive Flak in RA2) What the Hell have the Russians in RA2???? Retarded Blimps, Conscripts with WW2 Weapons, outdated Flaks, inefficient Tesla Powerplants... The Allied have also backsteps, instead of the M1 Abrams they have Grizzly, which are weaker then the M1, Light destroyer instead of Battleships, useless Nighthawks instead of faster Chinooks, no mobile Gap generator, no Phasetransporter, no Stealthbunkers like in RA1... :p

#30 KaRsKiN

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 05:04 PM

Hmmm, either way i know RA2 is a spin off and isn't actually part of the Story.

The Allied Victory would make more sense, but the FMV's in the Soviet Ending lead you to another conclusion, either way is good for me though!
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#31 TX1138

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 12:06 AM

Repeat after me:

Tiberium, Red Alert, and Generals are three separate universes.
Tiberium, Red Alert, and Generals are three separate universes.
Tiberium, Red Alert, and Generals are three separate universes.
Tiberium, Red Alert, and Generals are three separate universes.
Tiberium, Red Alert, and Generals are three separate universes.
Tiberium, Red Alert, and Generals are three separate universes.
Tiberium, Red Alert, and Generals are three separate universes.
Tiberium, Red Alert, and Generals are three separate universes.
Tiberium, Red Alert, and Generals are three separate universes.

Ex-Westwood employees have confirmed that having Kane in RA1 was nothing more than a cameo appearance. Having RA1 as a prequel to TD was a joke, as there are more plot-holes between the two than TS to TW.

The official timelines go like this:


Tiberium:

TD/CO ----> TS/FS ----> KW/TW ----> T


Red Alert:

RA/CS/AM ----> RA2/YR

----> RA3/?

Generals:

Present Day ----> GN/ZH ----> Nothing


EA and WW have said that there is no connection between any of the 3 C&C universes. Let that be the end of this argument.

Edited by TX1138, 25 April 2008 - 12:10 AM.

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#32 some_weirdGuy

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 03:43 AM

i made this topic to talk about the links and possibilities on how these could be fitted back together


RA is the prequel of TD-TS-TW, but the allieds win (would be stupid, when the soviets would win, because they have vastly different technology than Nod, remeber Mammoth and Iron Curtain. The Allied victory is offical and canon, that was said by Ishmael, one of Petroglyph's workers, who also was a programmer of C&C.


actually, the allies winning leads to RA2... soviets win, and kane takes over the soviets(soviet victory movie in RA), and no body said the soviets turned into nod, everyone noob seems to be under that impression

Just Cause Soviets Are Red And Nod Is Red Doesnt Mean They Are The Same.
nod used the soviets for a while(posing behind them, and using that as a way to set themselves up a bit), but they didnt use soviets technology, they set up their own tech from scrin wrecks and their own research, so there goes your idea that 'soviets are different to nod, so therefor soviets dont win'



but i know that now EA is saying they are all separate universes, and i know there are some discrepancies as basically, WW/ea were making it us as they went along

but like shown, they may be separate universes, but they could all be linked by the time travel einstein did (so basically, einstein made them into separate universes/realities, but using his time machine to change the past)

i wonder how WW would have made them all link up, as apparently they were all going to link(yes, even Yuris revenge), but i dont know about generals, i think ea added that in themselves, but i still like to try fitting them together, and they can... like i have shown


Ex-Westwood employees have confirmed that having Kane in RA1 was nothing more than a cameo appearance. Having RA1 as a prequel to TD was a joke, as there are more plot-holes between the two than TS to TW.


please, do show me where they say RA being a prequel to TD was a joke?

next you will say its also a cameo that they mention nod at all... red alert was meant to be the prequel to TD,
but with the whole making things up as they went along, RA2 didn't really fit, (unless, like said, we assume sov victory--->TD, allied victory--->RA2)

eventually communism in Europe could have failed, leading Europe to go back to how it was basically...

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#33 TX1138

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 06:12 AM

Here, let me help you:

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(Taken from PC Zone magazine)

Apart from the parts about Red Alert 3 not being a C&C game, the rest has been confirmed by APOC.

Edited by TX1138, 25 April 2008 - 06:13 AM.

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#34 KaRsKiN

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 07:16 AM

Was APOC a Westwood employee?

His appearence isn't just Cameo...he actually says about the Brotherhood and about how He is The Future. He's the same guy as in TD, Red Alert was meant to be a prequel, it was originally meant to be an expansion to TD.

And the "Experiment" wouldn't have failed if they didn't release Red Alert 2. That was what messed up the series.

Edited by KaRsKiN, 25 April 2008 - 07:18 AM.

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#35 some_weirdGuy

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 11:54 PM

@TX

did you read? i said i know EA are saying they are seperate universes... but screw them, thats not how it was originally planned to work out by westwood(everyone liked westwood better then EA)

but as i have said, i have just done this for fun, maybe even finding some links WW would have used to piece all the games together...

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#36 AprilWar

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 01:18 AM

There are a lot of confusion in RA2
Why we see the Iwo Jima monument?

I don't think RA3 is a sequel of RA2.
Why is the USS Arizona wreckage there? Sunk by the Soviets in Red Alert 1 ? Or
by Japan in an unknown Pacific War somewhere between RA1 and RA2 ?

And Why Romanov attacked the US instead England?. The US wasnt even involved in RA1.
I just know that the Allies (not US) put Romanov in Moscow for a safe future (but it failed).
LOL

And yeah. In Renegade's last mission There's a photo inside Kane's Temple
of the Apocalypse tanks in a Russian Parade in Moscow. And WW/EA made that
ON PURPOSE in Renegade. Im not saying there's a connection.
But WHY they made that?

Read this. it's interesting. Althought it isnt complete.
http://en.wikipedia....on_to_Red_Alert
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#37 TX1138

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 05:25 AM

@TX

did you read? i said i know EA are saying they are seperate universes... but screw them, thats not how it was originally planned to work out by westwood(everyone liked westwood better then EA)



May I remind you that Westwood made Red Alert 2. If Westwood really intended that the Red Alert universe be connected to the Tiberian universe, then why did they make Red Alert 2 veer away from this theme?
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#38 Romanul

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 07:18 AM

Good point there,TX.
The idea of RA and Tiberium having a conection is nonsense tought EA wanted at an point to create Renegade 2 which was the point where the 2 univereses have joined.
But there is the problem of time.RA was in the 1950-1980 whilst TD starts from 1990 to 2040 or how much it is.
Thats why EA wanted to create a connection between those 10 years.

PS

have you received my PM?

Edited by secret, 26 April 2008 - 07:19 AM.


#39 some_weirdGuy

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 11:28 AM

well ea was kinda behind westwood since half way through tib sun i think...

and look at this

According to former C&C designer Adam "Ishmael" Isgreen, Command & Conquer: Tiberian Dawn follows the events of Red Alert's Allied campaign[7], while Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge take place in a parallel universe created by an attempt to alter the past in "Tiberian Incursion"[8], which was known to be the working title of Westwood's cancelled sequel to Tiberian Sun: Firestorm[9]. Isgreen also implied that Nikola Tesla was responsible for attracting the attention of the Scrin through his experiments, and thus for the arrival of Tiberium on Earth[10].


i had never seen this before... but it fits with everything else we have found out (that westwood had planned to show us in their next game how RA2 and the tiberium series were linked)


now i have something to ask you all...

why is the second installment in the tiberium series called Tiberian sun, shouldn't it be Tiberium sun?
(after all, Tiberium dawn, Tiberium wars)

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#40 TX1138

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 11:50 AM

Actually, it is called Tiberian Dawn (at least by the fans, I have yet to see an official reference to C&C as TD)
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