17 replies to this topic

[Hexman]

Who was the easterling captain? Tolkien mentioned it?

Edited by Hexman, 25 October 2008 - 05:50 PM.

[Dalf32]

his name isnt correct yet. he is not actually an easterling captain.

[Hasfusel]

He's gonna be a second Wight hero, am I right?

But still needs a name*, and powers, and all that jazz. And a reason for existance. I think he is just showing off a model, which appears to be a cross between the CaH MotE hero and Karsh.



* I'm in favour of Agarmir. Don't ask why. It just works.

[Morgulshade]

Isnt it just an Easterling (or haradrim) captain? why does everyone has to have a name...lol...there are always characters better than others, but they dont always have a name lol...It can be just a captain

[Captain of Arnor]

I think that hero should be scratched and be replaced with a Black Numenorean hero instead. How did an Easterling come to be in Angmar anyways? Its not exactly canon, to have an Easterling going into battle with Arnor.

[robnkarla]

The hero is not in 1.06 now. He wasn't supposed to be in for 1.05.06, but I forgot to take him out (thus the easterling captain becuase I was copying ini code from Lorgan to him, not because he was an actual easterling captain.)

He was supposed to be an archer version of Karsh, but will probably be scrapped.

Robert J.

[Captain of Arnor]

I see. Well, consider replacing him with a Black Numenorean Captain or something of that type. :D Angmar doesn't have enough Men in the faction. Its all trolls and wolves. The thralls are men, sure, but they're disgustingly weak. Not even good as a harassment force, really. I guess they kinda make filler, and can make a small army look much bigger, but they serve no real purpose in a battle. Sure, they're versatile, but they're so weak that it destroys all strategic uses for the unit.

Branch Angmar more out into Dark Numenorians. =D A mounted swordsman unit, a mounted ranger unit, and some type of elite foot-soldier unit...like the Elves and Isengard have, and Arnor with their stinking mounted knights.

Edited by Lord_Faramir, 13 March 2009 - 01:04 AM.

[mike_]

God.. no. Please there wouldn't be enough Black Numenoreans (ever, after the fall of Numenor) to form up in full-size battalions. And a Dark Ranger-esque unit is just ridiculous.

[Captain of Arnor]

I wouldn't really say that, Mike. Between the time of Numenors downfall and the Fall of Arnor, there were MANY long years time (If I remember rightly, over a thousand) that Numenoreans bred in the north. And since the race was pre-disposed to the darkness that overtook them with the fear of death, I should say that there was a good chance that there were very many Black Numenoreans. And even if there weren't very many Black Numenoreans, there were certainly enough to make a small army of them, backed up by trolls and wolves and barbarian thralls instead of the other way around.

And Guest, people come to this mod because they want the game to be closer to the books than the way the original by EA was. Or at least, I know thats defintely one of the main reasons why I came to it. Those little uninportant details are what awe me the most about this game. And having Angmar as just a huge festering ground for trolls and wolves is not only non-canon, its...also extremely dull. Sure, it makes them different than the other factions, but like I said. Its not nearly as exciting as it would be if there were more Black Numenoreans. I sound like a nerd there, but oh well, its the truth. XD

Edited by Lord_Faramir, 13 March 2009 - 01:25 PM.

[mike_]

A Tolkien game should have gameplay based on Tolkein.

And, actually, wolves were a major problem in Eriador for most of the Third Age - Aragorn I, a Dunedain Chieftain, was killed by a pack of them. Trolls - well, the Trollshaws speak for themselves

And about the Dark Numenorean problem.. only two of them, not counting the Nazgul, ever came to prominence in Middle-earth. And they lived in the Far South - not the Far North. Seeing as Arnor was neighbors with Angmar, the Faithful there would have outnumbered any of the King's Men in the area (being their own kingdom 'n all). I just don't see why people keep bringing this up when there is so much canon against it.

[{IP} Aridor]

We aren't saying that there weren't Black Numenoreans just they weren't in Angmar. Now the topic of the Black Numenoreans is a complicated topic. There is a miss understanding about what a Black Numenorean is.

A Black Numenorean is a man of Numenor itself that worshiped the Dark Lord. These men turn their back on the True God Eru and started Worshiping the Dark Lord. They were few in number because not only would the hunted down by the other Numenoreans and tried for treason. This treason started appearing when the Numenoreans came back to Middle Earth. Some few men would be enticed by the possibility of power that evil seemed to offer and went over to it. These men became great leaders and captains for Sauron in his War to wipe out the ring. These men were very few in number as known but more were just corrupted in their hearts. They turned away from the true way a man should act and started coveting wealth and power. This also started in Numenor itself. There was a discontent and people started to be obsessed about avoiding death. Then when the King's of Numenor rejected the Valar and the Eldar they were just a step away from openly rejecting Eru. Then when the last King of Numenor invaded Middle Earth by way of their port at Umbar he took Sauron captive. Sauron's armies abandoned him in the face of the over whellming power of Numenor. Sauron was able to totally corrupt the king while he was held prisoner. The king and most of the people openly turned from the grace of Eru and worshiped the dark lord. The few that didn't were called the faithful and were led by Elendil. The others were called Kings men.

Now the Numenoreans under the King built a fleet and tried to invade Valinor. Elendil and the faithful fled to middle earth at the same time. Now the Kings men were all killed in the downfall of Numenor. So most of the evil Numenoreans died.

Now those that left were those in middle earth still, and here the first stick issue arises that leads to confusion. There were two types of bad Numenoreans left in middle earth. Those that had turned to darkness fully before the King and openly Worshiped the dark lord and fought against Numenor. The others were still loyal to Numenor and the king. They were still evil, but in a greedy despotic ruler way. They fought against the Orcs and other vile creatures but they were bad men.These men were known as King's men. These type of Numenoreans were the most prevalent. The faithful were always fewer in number. Now most of the King's men were in Umbar.

During the war of the last Alliance these few left overs of the king's men wouldn't help defeat Sauron and they fled into Harad. They became leaders and continued to attack the realms in exile for the rest of their lives. They were the original Corsairs of Umbar and constant tried to take the port back from Gondor.

Now the next confusing part. During the later years of the kings of Gondor. Their was a civil war over who would be King. The upspurers lost and fled to Umbar. These men under their leader Castimar embraced the last few King's men that were in Harad. These became the Corsairs and they caused great pain to Gondor.

Now back to the actual Black Numenoreans. These were always very few in number. The only one that we know left at the time of the WotR, besides some of the Nazgul, is the Mouth of Sauron. These true Black Numenorians were never great enough in numbers to be fielded as warriors. They also were magicians and sorcerers not warriors

[Dunedain Lord]

I wouldn't really say that, Mike. Between the time of Numenors downfall and the Fall of Arnor, there were MANY long years time (If I remember rightly, over a thousand) that Numenoreans bred in the north. And since the race was pre-disposed to the darkness that overtook them with the fear of death, I should say that there was a good chance that there were very many Black Numenoreans. And even if there weren't very many Black Numenoreans, there were certainly enough to make a small army of them, backed up by trolls and wolves and barbarian thralls instead of the other way around.

And Guest, people come to this mod because they want the game to be closer to the books than the way the original by EA was. Or at least, I know thats defintely one of the main reasons why I came to it. Those little uninportant details are what awe me the most about this game. And having Angmar as just a huge festering ground for trolls and wolves is not only non-canon, its...also extremely dull. Sure, it makes them different than the other factions, but like I said. Its not nearly as exciting as it would be if there were more Black Numenoreans. I sound like a nerd there, but oh well, its the truth. XD

Good Lord your so called "lore" in all your posts is almost all wrong..........
as mike said, they were pretty much all...........DEAD
this was discussed already in the angmar section, and its not black numenoriens, its men of carndum, hillmen of rhudaur.
So please..........stop trying to make all factions equal. It annoys me and probably alot of people when you're saying
"Let's make the same thing in one faction as the other!!" *claps hands*
Dark Ranger horse archers, like mike said, are pretty comical.
Last statement, I like the idea of an archer wight, sounds rlly cool! Maybe the arrows could have like a trail of death kind of
like Carthaen's arrows.

[mike_]

...we've already finished debating that, actually thanks for supporting me though /ego boost/

[Excuse_me_princess]

Why not make them into some kind of battlemages?
They can be a tat stronger than normal footsoldiers, in both attack and defence, but have lessr troops in a unit.
They could have some magic based skills (or upgrades) like fire shields or something.
Then you have you're mages, Numenorians and a way of making them equal to other faction troops while they are lesser in number.

[Neth]

[Uruk King]

Tell me you're joking.

In case you haven't been paying attention to your lore classes, and for your information, sorcerers were..we've been through this time and again, no more nonsense. God!

[Excuse_me_princess]

Whohoho easy there Uruk king, hold you're horses (or wargs)
I don't think why there's any reason to call in the old man
It was only a suggestion I made after reading AA IP'er's post:

Now back to the actual Black Numenoreans. These were always very few in number. The only one that we know left at the time of the WotR, besides some of the Nazgul, is the Mouth of Sauron. These true Black Numenorians were never great enough in numbers to be fielded as warriors. They also were magicians and sorcerers not warriors

The thing about battle mages was would have been realistic if it were true, however I missed the following post saying it was (mostly) untrue
Have to admit that I have studied the lore of Dune, Resident Evil, Halo, Metroid, Zelda, STAR WARS (and many others) more than that of Lotr, so my knowledge on some more advanced topics is a bit rusty, so just take it easy... man... just easy.
I am just trying to help y'all, just to say, I really appreciate the fact that you guys try to maintain some realism by keeping to the actual lore and facts of the original story.
That's where most film and game makers go wrong (the Dune and Resident Evil movies for instance.

Just a question on the side however, there's just one thing I Just can't figure out:
What is the nature of Magic in the Lotr universe, a little fact that seems to delude me and it might explain where I have gone wrong with my "Battle mage" suggestion.