25 replies to this topic

[feld]

Split off this discussion from the EXECUTOR thread to get thoughts on good Imperial anti-starfighter tactics:

As mentioned, I've been finding Rebel fighters wipe out my squadrons pretty quickly as an Imperial player who relies on carried complements for his fighter support. To counter this: I tend to mix Blastboat groups into my task forces. I don't want to see TIE fighters hyperspace into a tactical battle...so I don't just build extra fighters for the task groups (though I will put them in defensive fleets).

Questions:
1. I note that the Imperial Super Transport VIII Escort Carrier exists in game but haven't built any. Does anyone use it? How does it work for you?
2. I've messed with Lancer frigates but have generally been disappointed. The quad laser range and the (IMHO) poor EAW/FOC "guard" AI turn the tactical employment of that class into an exercise in micromanagement for me. Does anyone have tips on Lancer use? I've should say that I've really only played with the vanilla Lancer and maybe one upgraded Lancer in a Core Campaign. Do the upgrades help?

r/
feld

[Phoenix Rising]

As mentioned, I've been finding Rebel fighters wipe out my squadrons pretty quickly as an Imperial player who relies on carried complements for his fighter support.

Almost every starfighter has been changed in some way for v1.1, but I'll just say that I've specifically taken steps to improve the missile survivability of TIE Avengers and Defenders so they're not vulnerable to Z-95s.

I don't want to see TIE fighters hyperspace into a tactical battle...so I don't just build extra fighters for the task groups (though I will put them in defensive fleets).

As I've said before (but not recently), I'd do Rebellion-style carriers if I could, but EaW just doesn't allow for such a thing, so I had to compromise. Also the short-range TIEs have been reworked to included hyperdrives very late in the upgrades, if not last.

1. I note that the Imperial Super Transport VIII Escort Carrier exists in game but haven't built any. Does anyone use it? How does it work for you?

It's most useful as a mobile repair yard for starfighters (I've reworked the ability for v1.1 to make it more useful).

2. I've messed with Lancer frigates but have generally been disappointed. The quad laser range and the (IMHO) poor EAW/FOC "guard" AI turn the tactical employment of that class into an exercise in micromanagement for me. Does anyone have tips on Lancer use? I've should say that I've really only played with the vanilla Lancer and maybe one upgraded Lancer in a Core Campaign. Do the upgrades help?

The range does suck, I'll admit it, but I'm weary of changing it because it'd have to be done across the board. The final upgrade gets heavy quads, which have twice the range. It also costs as much as a gunship in v1.1, so it's allowed to suck a little.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 09 December 2008 - 04:24 PM.

[feld]

As I've said before (but not recently), I'd do Rebellion-style carriers if I could, but EaW just doesn't allow for such a thing, so I had to compromise. Also the short-range TIEs have been reworked to included hyperdrives very late in the upgrades, if not last.

Yeah...I read about that going through the old posts. Just to make clear: I'm not complaining - just looking for new tactical ideas to play with.
Oh, and that part about TIEs with hyperdrives promises to be very very nasty.

r/
feld

[Phoenix Rising]

I just like to bring it up every now and again because I'm not totally happy with how it works (especially with upgrades).

[muneyoshi]

I atest first hand.. full lancers eat up fighters and bombers.. on a side note.. they don't do so hot when the fleet is in motion.. but once contact is made with cap ships/stations I tend to stay there and make a formation and my ships go pretty much stationary except faceing changes to point more guns at ships... at this point moving your anti-starfighter platforms into stationary positions over/very closely to the caps you want to guard works best.. not the guard command button.. just move em there and leave it stationary.. lest that's what I do and it tends to work for me

I am mostly a rebel player.. though I am messing with the imperials in a gc right now.. I must atest from a canon arguement.. rebel fighters pretty much damn near always DID wipe their imperial counterparts... the whole much better trained and generally in better ships thing kicks in .

[Kaleb Graff]

I use lancers when playing the imps as a special anti-starfighter group. I'll send them into the thick of the enemy fighters, and that usually puts a good-sized dent in them.

[bob345]

As an Imperial player, I find taking Dreadnaughts with my fleet make it easeir to counter fighter, and with ISD support the can hold thier own against Captital Ships.
Plus near the last upgrade Dreadnaughts get fighters then further up get concusion missiles (thhey might get fighters torwards the beggining).

Edited by bob345, 11 December 2008 - 03:41 AM.

[Tropical Bob]

The Lancer- and Dreadnaught-classes are good for wiping out fighters, though I don't like bringing alone the Dreadnaught-class because it's too big for me to use effectively against fighters. What I recommend doing with those is having an advance scouting unit in your fleet, so that the main fleet elements are in the hyperspace spool, bring out the main part and advance, then hyperspace in your anti-fighter elements right on top of large concentrations and/or problematic areas. A Lancer- or Dreadnaught-class dropping in directly in the middle of about 10 fighter squadrons is devastating.

As far as small ships go, the GAT-12 Skipray Blastboats and TIE Avengers are good at sweeping through enemy fighters as well.

[cromy]

Yes the Skipray is the bane of all Rebel shipping in my opinion especially when i'm playing as the rebells theyr'e my first target, and when i play as the Imperials they're my front line defensive unit as well as offensive as i find Imperial ships to cumbersome to move around, and since in nearly ever battle my Imp SD's have been in they either lost their duel with a MC 80 or barely made it out of it alive despite heavier fire power even when backed with light ships (Carracks mostly a rare Acclaimater)

[feld]

Yes the Skipray is the bane of all Rebel shipping in my opinion especially when i'm playing as the rebells theyr'e my first target, and when i play as the Imperials they're my front line defensive unit as well as offensive as i find Imperial ships to cumbersome to move around, and since in nearly ever battle my Imp SD's have been in they either lost their duel with a MC 80 or barely made it out of it alive despite heavier fire power even when backed with light ships (Carracks mostly a rare Acclaimater)

Your experience surprises me. I've don't engage MC80's one on one with ISDs very often...but when I do the ImpStar usually doesn't even lose her shields. It should be said that my ISD's never travel alone...I've always got a few starfighter killers around (a Lancer or so). So the MC80's starfighters usually don't get to play with the ISD. But once his fighters are gone I corner the MC80 with the ISD and the fight is usually pretty one sided. I wonder why our experiences are so different? I don't think I'm doing anything particularly brilliant or special tactically...

Got any more details?

r/
feld

[coinich]

Yes the Skipray is the bane of all Rebel shipping in my opinion especially when i'm playing as the rebells theyr'e my first target, and when i play as the Imperials they're my front line defensive unit as well as offensive as i find Imperial ships to cumbersome to move around, and since in nearly ever battle my Imp SD's have been in they either lost their duel with a MC 80 or barely made it out of it alive despite heavier fire power even when backed with light ships (Carracks mostly a rare Acclaimater)

Your experience surprises me. I've don't engage MC80's one on one with ISDs very often...but when I do the ImpStar usually doesn't even lose her shields. It should be said that my ISD's never travel alone...I've always got a few starfighter killers around (a Lancer or so). So the MC80's starfighters usually don't get to play with the ISD. But once his fighters are gone I corner the MC80 with the ISD and the fight is usually pretty one sided. I wonder why our experiences are so different? I don't think I'm doing anything particularly brilliant or special tactically...

Got any more details?

r/
feld

Thats not the way my old fights turned out. Maybe 1 on 1 the ISD would win, but with any sizable frigate + an MC-80, and it would usually turn the other way for me. The Power to Shields ability was strong enough that it would last far more of the duel than the ISD's shields. Even the Power to Shields beat the Proton Beam. I had a MC-80c hold of several Acclimator IVs and a few Carracks Mark-highest with that ability alone before eventually succumbing to the pressure.

Oh, and I loath the Skipray with every fiber of my being. :mad:

[feld]

Thats not the way my old fights turned out. Maybe 1 on 1 the ISD would win, but with any sizable frigate + an MC-80, and it would usually turn the other way for me. The Power to Shields ability was strong enough that it would last far more of the duel than the ISD's shields. Even the Power to Shields beat the Proton Beam. I had a MC-80c hold of several Acclimator IVs and a few Carracks Mark-highest with that ability alone before eventually succumbing to the pressure.

Oh, and I loath the Skipray with every fiber of my being. :mad:

Hmmm...one difference is that I kill as many support craft first before concentrating fire on the MC80. I find that the AI loves shooting at ISDs so my theory is to reduce the number of guns he has as rapidly as possible. The best way to do this fast is kill the low shield/hull value units first. Hence, his MC40's don't live long against me. One great thing about PR is that the advantage of the dagger hull is very clear because all the guns are present. If you give the ISD an order to kill a frigate the guns that can't hit the frigate still engage other targets. If the geometry works out right, you can have half your ISD's weapons kill a frigate while still keeping the MC80 under fire with the rest. Bad combo.

The other thing I sometimes do is use the engine power boost on the ISDs to get out of the broadside firing arc on the MC80. Go ahead or in front of him into an arc from which the Mon Cal couldn't return fire. I typically only did that once a fight or so because the ISD needs the shield regen points more later in the fight. The usefulness of this tactic is marginal b/c the MC80 turns so quick..but it can be helpful sometimes.

Also, where in the tech tree does the escort carrier appear? I've been upgrading transports but I haven't gotten there yet...

r/
feld

Edited by feld, 15 December 2008 - 03:51 PM.

[Ghostrider]

Also, where in the tech tree does the escort carrier appear? I've been upgrading transports but I haven't gotten there yet...

It's separate research in the Frigate (alliance) or cruiser/destroyer (Empire) category. Try looking at research options on a Level 4 place (or level 3 for Alliance)

Edited by Ghostrider, 15 December 2008 - 06:10 PM.

[feld]

Also, where in the tech tree does the escort carrier appear? I've been upgrading transports but I haven't gotten there yet...

It's separate research in the Frigate (alliance) or cruiser/destroyer (Empire) category. Try looking at research options on a Level 4 place (or level 3 for Alliance)

Oh #$!@! I never even thought of that. No wonder.
Thanks!

[Tropical Bob]

Well, I can see how an MC80c would give an ISD trouble. I've never had to face the third generation, so I don't know how the scuffle would turn out.

I prefer head-on attacks with the Imperial-class more, since it allows all the heavy batteries to fire on my target, as well as a majority of the small ones. Don't underestimate heavy batteries! They are devastating in PR, and can certainly change the tide of any battle.

[cromy]

Part of the reason why my expierence with ISD's 1 on 1 with MC80's is the fact that for some reason my light lasers and ions just don't seem to want to fire on them leaving only the main armaments to fire and the MC 80 has no porblem unloading its full compliment of weapons on my ISD's.

[feld]

Part of the reason why my expierence with ISD's 1 on 1 with MC80's is the fact that for some reason my light lasers and ions just don't seem to want to fire on them leaving only the main armaments to fire and the MC 80 has no porblem unloading its full compliment of weapons on my ISD's.

Woah...that's wierd. My installation's light turbolasers engage just wonderfully. They are comparatively short range though...have you tried getting closer? Most of the MC80's guns are middle of the road turbolaser cannon. So maybe you're just in the medium range bracket where only his medium TL and your heavy battery can engage...otherwise, that behavior is seriously odd.

r/
feld

[coinich]

Range should apply. I guess if the MC-80 is a little farther away, its out of range of some of the ISD's guns?

[feld]

Range should apply. I guess if the MC-80 is a little farther away, its out of range of some of the ISD's guns?

That's my guess. I tend to drive the ISD's up close and I've found that you need to before you get the full Impy goodness of 120 light TLs.
r/
feld

[coinich]

Range should apply. I guess if the MC-80 is a little farther away, its out of range of some of the ISD's guns?

That's my guess. I tend to drive the ISD's up close and I've found that you need to before you get the full Impy goodness of 120 light TLs.
r/
feld

And when I play, I'm never in that knifefighting range (nor will I be, after hearing that...). Now it all makes sense!