68 replies to this topic

[Ghostrider]

Welcome to Campaign Comment

This is the place for you to ask all those questions about the content of GFFA and sub campaigns.
If you need to know what that strange ship was that incinerated your task force - here's where to ask.

I am also keen to get your feedback on the whole campaign, balance issues and the AI, so post comments here.

Finally, if your question relates to the whole mod, or to technical issues, tech tree and so on, your comments are probably better posted elswhere.

Ghostrider

[bob345]

I've started a Core Worlds campaign and it's awsome some of the pirate fleets are more powerful then my whole fleet it adds a whole new strategic layer to the campaign

Thanks for making such awsome campaigns.

[cromy]

Generally playing as the empire, with a good spread of upgrades (current fleet comp for the northern Outter Rim is 1 Mark III Dread, 4 Mark III Carracks, 6 Mark IV Bayonets, 1-8 [depending on their replacements] IVP7/8, 2 Maurders[remaining starting units] for the Mid-east outer rim consists of 5 Mark IV Bayonets and 10 IVP8 and in the southern Outer Rim 1 Mark I Trector, 1 Mark III Dread, 1 Mark III Carracks, 3 Mark IV Bayonets, 2 IVP8s) i've found the pirate fleets (witht he exception of Kessel) aren't able to press their number advantage as their numerous fighters eat away at the number of large ships they can deploy luckily meaning i can focus all fire on the few they can deploy while deployed fighter craft and the IPV's handle their fighter craft.

I'm also finding it highly annoying that i can't see what are on the planets without conquering them first as the probe droids do not let you see whats on the planet, so all the additional pirate units and masses of fleet are really lost in their allure when you can't see what you are sending your fleets into espically if when landed they just chew through what you are fighting. Since seeing all the units in a fleet and their type its pretty scary on paper then when you actually get their all the nifty space junk and asteroids get in the way dividing their fire power making the fight all that much easier.

[wuffles]

I have tried playing the core worlds campaign. I noticed that the pirate planets have way more powerful fleets than me but this can be used to my advantage due to the stupid raiding still being possible. I find a raid of a pair of at-at and a at-st will usually conquer a planet although usually they are destroyed as well so you need send a second raid to grab the planet. This is with auto-resolve. Really it would be nice if raiding was just that a raid, so could be used to destroy ground buildings and units but unable to conquer the planet.

Needless to say once you have the ground you can either leave the huge pirate fleet in orbit to protect the planet or at least know what you have to destroy to take the planet and it wont have the bases to back it up which until you get the bigger ships makes quite a difference as the GOLAN II defenses tend to take a while to destroy unless you bring multiple destroyers or a dreadnaught.

If the speed issue can be fixed then I really look forward to playing this although I may see if I can mod the game to disable raiding as it is just too strong at this point.

[Ghostrider]

Generally playing as the empire, with a good spread of upgrades (current fleet comp for the northern Outter Rim is 1 Mark III Dread, 4 Mark III Carracks, 6 Mark IV Bayonets, 1-8 [depending on their replacements] IVP7/8, 2 Maurders[remaining starting units] for the Mid-east outer rim consists of 5 Mark IV Bayonets and 10 IVP8 and in the southern Outer Rim 1 Mark I Trector, 1 Mark III Dread, 1 Mark III Carracks, 3 Mark IV Bayonets, 2 IVP8s) i've found the pirate fleets (witht he exception of Kessel) aren't able to press their number advantage as their numerous fighters eat away at the number of large ships they can deploy luckily meaning i can focus all fire on the few they can deploy while deployed fighter craft and the IPV's handle their fighter craft.

I'm also finding it highly annoying that i can't see what are on the planets without conquering them first as the probe droids do not let you see whats on the planet, so all the additional pirate units and masses of fleet are really lost in their allure when you can't see what you are sending your fleets into espically if when landed they just chew through what you are fighting. Since seeing all the units in a fleet and their type its pretty scary on paper then when you actually get their all the nifty space junk and asteroids get in the way dividing their fire power making the fight all that much easier.

It's meant to look scary - but yes - once you upgrade your tech these units (being old Clone Wars stock) are dead meat.

Your early fighters take a pasting though. Basically these fleets are murder against small stuff, but stand no chance against a fleet with decent cruisers and capitals.

As to not - seeing the fleets - who says you should? The rebels dont get to see the imp forces in the books....

However - here is a hint -
Build your infiltrator centre and it unlocks more land units - including Bothan Spies.
Use every scrap of information you have. Even if you can't see the fleet contents, use the information you have about the number of different fleets, and you might learn to guess fighter strengths - think of a pyramid with spammed fighters and freighters at the bottom and capitals/cruisers at the top.

Simply the number of different types of fleet can tell you about a planet. a planet with 20 different fleets is probably going to have more cruisers and destroyers than one with 15 different fleets. - well most of the time...

[cromy]

Well for one i haven't played as the rebels as i always felt in pr v1.0 they were over powered, and use even with upgraded units IPV8 and Bayonets Mark 5/6's taking kessel was a bloody pain i still have a fleet over Sulis Van and Muulinist to take care of which are going to murder my fleets like the one other mega fleet around Euuridu or something liek that.

And as far as seen or not seeing one of the biggest things hyped about for PR v1.1 was the massive fleets of pirates/CSA in the galaxy i just find it annoying that i can't send a couple probe droids to a planet net nothing but generous amount of silver "?" but thats just me and my preference.

The CSA fleet though have been much more entertaining than the rebells and their masses of tugs . . . -_-" imgaine how annoyed i was to get a notifcation of an incoming fleet in week 7 only to have it land at like week 15 or some such and to find it only has a few recrusants some MC30 and 21 tugs . . . which is starting to make me think thats all they'll build in space since even after taking about 15 or so planets in my current game the game isn't running better but worse and i know the rebells have only taken a about 5 or 6 planets in the outter rim campagin, and yes i know this is probably better in the bug section but i havn't been able to confirm it since the remaining rebel bases are in areas i have no way of geting into yet, thanks mostly to kessel . . .

But yeah other than my little quark about recon, the CSA have provided much more entertainment as far as fleet engagements than any of the AI improvement for PR v1.0 which is really wanting me to get to trying the core GC since i'd imagine those fleets would be worse than Kessel (and yes i know kessel doesn't have big ships but it has quantity which has a quality all its own.)

[feld]

Ghost,

Weeks 1-23 of a v1.1.1 Core Campaign as Galactic Empire. I changed no starting settings except for AI to Easy.
-Love the size of the starting "pirate" fleets. Their size and the fact that they don't regenerate makes space "raids" a viable strategy to whittle them down to size. I've taken to organizing strike forces to go after specific targets on the space tactical maps (i.e. a particular starbase or capital ship that I know from recon is there). Send in a blastboat, shuttle, or hero "scout", wait until the target is in a good spot, and then jump in on top of it. Kill and get out. The generally reduced vulnerability of capital ships to fighter attack makes this strategy viable and it feels "Star Wars" to me at least.
-The opening game is now slower and I think that this is good. It takes the starting player/AI time to amass enough forces to knock out the larger fleets.
-Minor space layout issue. Not sure if you can fix this...happened to me on the planet that starts with an "A" immediately Galactic "northwest" from the Empire's starting location on Carrida in the Core Campaign. The fleet there has a number of large ships and lots of asteroids. One of my scouting forces managed to destroy a couple of ships unintentionally...because the AI drove them through the asteroid fields repeatedly chasing down my scouts. If this is what you intended...then great!

-I was initially frustrated by the lack of strategic intel from probe droids (like cromy below). But I've come to view this as a feature.

And as far as seen or not seeing one of the biggest things hyped about for PR v1.1 was the massive fleets of pirates/CSA in the galaxy i just find it annoying that i can't send a couple probe droids to a planet net nothing but generous amount of silver "?" but thats just me and my preference.

After some playstyle change, I'm beginning to actually enjoy this lack of intel. I'm doing recon with units on the tactical maps and I'm having a blast! I send recon units into tactical battles and try to scout out what the enemy has and then escape with the remaining forces or do what damage I can. In space, an officer and a few Skipray squadrons, or maybe Vader in his TIE Advanced. On the ground, I've used Mara Jade on Balmorra, and intend to try scout trooper platoons next. For the ground scout missions, I use a raiding party. Also handy for getting those starting Imperial shuttles "freight" income turned on.

-Raids: in addition to raiding as scouting, I find doing a "raid" with Mara Jade, Vader, or the Emperor and a small contingent of infantry or AT-STs is a passable simulation of the Empire taking over a planet without invading it. It puts a major character at risk, Palpatine/Jade's "influence" ability is a credible pass at the Empire's combination of diplomacy/Force power/bribery/intimidation, and it's easier on planets where the population supports the Empire because the citizens fight for you. Once you're done with the raid, the Empire controls the ground population and production centers...but the space installations spread throughout the system are not under your direct control (simulating the Emperor/Vader's continual push to unify the seperate system defense forces under the Imperial Navy). But the rebels will still have trouble attacking the system b/c the large indigenous defense fleet is still in orbit. I realize it's not perfect...but I am really enjoying it.

Edited by feld, 29 December 2008 - 03:47 PM.

[Ghostrider]

Ghost,
.........

Thanks for the feedback Feld. Everything is going according to my plan... ah ha ha (evil laughter in the background). I realised fairly soon into the campaign build process that the 'nibble away' concept could work in concept. Gald it works in practice.

I am also delighted that the scouting concept works.

As to your destruction of ships in the asteroid field, I can take no credit. It's down to the raid commander. Promote that man immediately!

Glad you like the fleets!

If you find anything strange (as per my latest comment in the 'Phoenix Reborn thread) or unusual in terms of fleet composition, please let me know.

But yeah other than my little quark about recon, the CSA have provided much more entertainment as far as fleet engagements than any of the AI improvement for PR v1.0 which is really wanting me to get to trying the core GC since i'd imagine those fleets would be worse than Kessel (and yes i know kessel doesn't have big ships but it has quantity which has a quality all its own.)

Glad you approve of the drug runners of Kessel.
That's just a small illegal place. Let me know how you get on when you find one of the big pirate worlds...

Edited by Ghostrider, 29 December 2008 - 04:01 PM.

[Dalmp]

I'm really enjoying it too. I spent enough time tinkering with populating GFFA with pirate forces to understand how massive an undertaking this must have been.

The raid 'issue' is really evident when using teams of 3 AT-ATs. They never fail, and it's an incredibly cheap way to eliminate pirate defenses and gain intel. Feels really cheesy. Of course, I don't have to use them that way...

I'm getting the savegame crash too, and my system should be more than capable of handling the load (3GB ram, tons of HDD room, etc etc). There might be some hard cap at work here. It might be based on the total number of units present in GFFA, or it might not. I'm wanting to test it out more thoroughly, when I have more time. Crushing Rebel scum is quite time consuming...

Great fun though. Taking pirate worlds is definitely more challenging.

[feld]

The raid 'issue' is really evident when using teams of 3 AT-ATs. They never fail, and it's an incredibly cheap way to eliminate pirate defenses and gain intel. Feels really cheesy. Of course, I don't have to use them that way...

Yeah...it's a problem. I just don't do it...but an AI Empire player would...and it would be hard to stop them. Autoresolve with any AT-AT (let alone 3) is almost always a win. Though I did lose the AT-AT and Stormtrooper units out of a 2x stormy 1xAT-AT 1xKam Solusar raid that I autoresolved on Kalist VI.

I've got to say...even with all of the wierdness (walker animations, huge gun ranges, etc) that ensues...PR's v1.1 land combat feels more Star Wars to me than vanilla. Heavy guns own infantry and the AT-AT owns everything. "That armor" is definitely "too strong for blasters".

[Phoenix Rising]

I'm also finding it highly annoying that i can't see what are on the planets without conquering them first as the probe droids do not let you see whats on the planet

You can see two things with probes/spies that should be enough to deduce the strength of a given enemy force: number of units and most powerful unit. If you could see what every single unit was, recon would be pretty OP for only 50 credits. That's where heroes and planetary advantages come in (by the way, check out Bothawui now; it can see practically a quarter of the galaxy).

Well for one i haven't played as the rebels as i always felt in pr v1.0 they were over powered

If anything, it's the Empire that's overpowered now.

-Minor space layout issue. Not sure if you can fix this...happened to me on the planet that starts with an "A" immediately Galactic "northwest" from the Empire's starting location on Carrida in the Core Campaign. The fleet there has a number of large ships and lots of asteroids. One of my scouting forces managed to destroy a couple of ships unintentionally...because the AI drove them through the asteroid fields repeatedly chasing down my scouts. If this is what you intended...then great!

I've seen it happen before... just the AI being stupid. Or Imperial (ESB).

The raid 'issue' is really evident when using teams of 3 AT-ATs. They never fail, and it's an incredibly cheap way to eliminate pirate defenses and gain intel. Feels really cheesy. Of course, I don't have to use them that way...

I didn't change auto-resolve values for ground units yet, so I'd hope it can only get better.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 29 December 2008 - 08:32 PM.

[cromy]

The only planet i've conquered in Outer Rim to give any view was in the northern part of the map, but yeah my quark about the probe droids is that i'm one of thsoe that suffer from a horrendous load time for tactical combat so i dont like the idea of sending scouting patrols to see whats all there.

ANd yes the whole going around the galaxy with teams of 3 AT-AT's is cheesy but effective when you don't want to wait several minutes to find out whats on the planet. Though i dunno if this is possible or not but why not make space stations like immovable ships or some such so that when planet changes control the stations remain just a thought i had i have no idea if its even remotely code able.

As far as the big pirate worlds Ghost, i dunno if i've ran across pirates per say but i've stumble into some big ship of the line fleets over planets which strike me more and a legitimate task force since most these planets are either massive trade/mining outpost or massive shipyards i'm pretty sure i don't want to run into another Kessel except on a larger scale, though admittantly Kessel's hardest part was it location and fact i could only produce corvette class vessels and none of my great anti fighter Frigates, though i know have that abilty now that Kessel is free of those pirate scum, which made me happy till i took a stroll next door to Kessel only to have my surviving task force from kessel trounced by alot of craft that are going to require something a tad larger than my dreadnoughts . . . considering they cut through my ipv's adn bayonets like a hot knife through butter . . .

[feld]

v1.1 Core Campaign Empire Player
Question: What is the intelligence bonus of Metellos? I conquer the planet and my galactic map doesn't change...
EDIT: ...oh...other than I get complete economic and production data for the surrounding systems. I'll read the description more carefully next time...Metellos is a home for corporate spies vice the more traditional order of battle types I take it?

Edited by feld, 30 December 2008 - 06:53 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

Though i dunno if this is possible or not but why not make space stations like immovable ships or some such so that when planet changes control the stations remain just a thought i had i have no idea if its even remotely code able.

Probably just asking for an exception.

Question: What is the intelligence bonus of Metellos? I conquer the planet and my galactic map doesn't change...
EDIT: ...oh...other than I get complete economic and production data for the surrounding systems. I'll read the description more carefully next time...Metellos is a home for corporate spies vice the more traditional order of battle types I take it?

Right, all of the spy networks do different things. Metellos is one of the less-useful ones, but it's free intel nonetheless.

[coinich]

Ick, the snowspeeders are near unrivaled. AT-AAs can't touch them except in large groups. :(

[feld]

Ick, the snowspeeders are near unrivaled. AT-AAs can't touch them except in large groups. :(

huh?
Not my experience It's just that the AT-AA's range is short so it's a good idea to group a pair of AT-AAs with a pair of AT-ATs and have them stand at the landing zone for a while to shoot down all the nasty little guys...

[coinich]

I'm on medium, so maybe its different? I had two AT-AA groups, and they got owned by around 6 snowspeeders.

[cromy]

Yes because you used At-AA's instead of AT-At's . . . which you can pretty much aling them so they cover themslves formt he nasty little buggers and they have no problems hitting them and a full barrage from an AT-AT is usually enough to bring them down, other wise use infantry in conjunction with At-At's however that option requires a good pause button and an large control group of infantry.

[Phoenix Rising]

Not my experience It's just that the AT-AA's range is short so it's a good idea to group a pair of AT-AAs with a pair of AT-ATs and have them stand at the landing zone for a while to shoot down all the nasty little guys...

Oops, I forgot to convert the AT-AA armament...