45 replies to this topic

[Radspakr Wolfbane]

Tech Tree time for Vikings.
I must admit Vikings is one of my blindspots in Historical people I know very little about them,except they took over most of England and France and made it with their women.

Somewhere in there we would use a Berserker and a Longboat that's about all I know.

[Lauri]

Huskarls

Huscarls were household troops, personal warriors and equivalent to a bodyguard to Scandinavian lords and kings.
While Huscarls were expected to be proficient in a variety of weapons, including the one-handed sword and the throwing axe, they were particularly renowned for their unique use of the long-bearded axe, or Skeggox, the presence of which is conspicuous throughout the Bayeux Tapestry.

If it's Huskarl or Huscarl, I can't say for sure... always thought it was with a k
Basically, an elite unit

[{IRS}Athos]

Thegns.

[Námo]

If it's Huskarl or Huscarl, I can't say for sure... always thought it was with a k

The correct spelling is Huskarl

Thegns.

These were just rich landlords, and in viking terminology not known as any special class of warriors ...


... but these were surely in a class of their own, probably not equaled by any other group of viking warriors:

Jomsvikings (legendary elite warriors)

... the Jomsvikings were highly selective in deciding whom to admit to their order. Membership was restricted to men of proven valor between 18 and 50 (with the exception of a boy named Vagn Åkesson, who defeated Sigvaldi Strut-Haraldsson in single combat at the age of 12). In order to gain admission, prospective members were required to prove themselves with a feat of strength, often taking the form of a ritual duel, or holmgang, with a Jomsviking.

Once admitted, the Jomsvikings required adherence to a strict code of conduct in order to instill a sense of military discipline among its members. Any violation of these rules could be punished with immediate expulsion from the order. Each Jomsviking was bound to defend his brothers, as well as to avenge their deaths if necessary. [...] Jomsvikings were forbidden to show fear or to flee in the face of an enemy [...] and none were to be taken captive. ...

Legendary Jomsviking Heroes:

Styrbjörn (the Strong)
Vagn Åkesson
Thorkild Høge (Thorkell the High)
Sigvald Jarl

and the founder of the Jomsvikings: Palnatoke (an archer equal in skills to Legolas)

Palnatoke was in disagreement with the king and had to shoot an apple from his own son who skied downhill. This story appears among other Germanic nations, as [...] in the legend of Wilhelm Tell in Switzerland.

On the issue of heroes equaling Legolas, the Norwegian Vikings did have have a mighty archer, too:

Einar Tampeskælver

"Der brast Norges Rige" ... I beretningen om det afgørende slag ved Svold år 1000 mellem nordmænd, danskere, svenskere og norske oprørere fortælles det, at den norske konge Olav Tryggvason spurgte sin unge bueskytte Einar Tampeskælver, hvorfor det bragede, da dennes bue blev ramt og splintret af en dansk pil: »Hvad brast så højt?« spurgte Olav. »Norges rige af din hånd, Herre Konge,« svarede Ejnar. »Saa farlig er vel Bristen ikke,« indvendte Olav og rakte Ejnar Tampeskælver sin bue, men efter at have spændt den rakte han den tilbage og sagde: »For veg, for veg er kongens bue«.

[to be replaced with english translation]

Edited by Námo, 11 May 2009 - 11:47 AM.

[Námo]

Berserker, Huskarl and Jomsviking should be the primary elite units ...

...and Berserkers are fast and furious, fighting in a frenzy (going berserk) - concerning defense, they often fought without shields etc., but it was also believed they were almost invulnerable (but the stories tell otherwise)

Ulfsark is NOT some elite unit:

Ulfsark were the working class in Norse cultures. They were also warriors in times of need. The name "Ulfsark" means wolf skin, which was given for the skin of wolves they used in battle. That was a form of surprising and scaring the enemy, besides their belief that by wearing an animal's skin, they would have the animal's strength.

no entries in wikipedia

Etymology: From Old Norse ulfsark: ulf, wolf + sark, shirt.
Noun: ulfsark, An infantryman

Edited by Námo, 11 May 2009 - 04:22 PM.

[Gfire]

Add dodge to the Berserkers then, with fairly high health but low armor.

[The 10th Rider]

We could make a faction were you didn't purchase upgrades for each unit, instead you permanently upgraded them periodically with an area of effect power that you had to purchase (with resources) before you could use it (you could only use it on each unit once, like the dwarven treasure power but purchased through resources). It could be used for Vikings (that's why I'm posting it here), but it'd work best on an Indian-ish faction (like Aztecs or Zulus or Mayans.)

[Námo]

[...]
Cavalry:
Jarl lvl 3 ...
[...]
Elite:
Jarl ...
[...]

Sorry, but the term Jarl can't be used for a unit, as it signifies a person of high rank.

... As described in the Icelandic sagas, such as Rígsthula, a jarl was a sort of chieftain next in rank to the king. [...] when jarls are finally mentioned in medieval documents, it clearly was a title signifying a leader ranked directly under the king.

So, it might be used for some hero, in connection with a name, or just as a title, like this:

*Name* Jarl or (*Name*), Jarl of *Realm* - examples: Haakon Jarl, Sigvald Jarl or (Eirik Hákonarson), Jarl of Lade.

[empireruler]

Loki (improves Ranged units, and Berserkers and Siege) Odin (Best Infantry and Calvary) Freya (units heal near temples, best defense)
Units:
Infantry:
Huscarls lv 2(high defense, high health, low speed, low attack)
Ulfsark (semi-high attack, really low defense, fast speed)
Berserkers lv 3(fast, high health, high attack, low defense, enraged ability?)
Axeman
Spearman

Calvary:
Raider (fast but weak, with high attack)
Jarl lv 3(cheiftan, elite calvary single unit, hero killer)

Ranged:
Heavy Bowman (medium range, medium damage, fast reload)
Throwing Axeman lv 2(slow reload, low range, heavy damage)
Hunters (weak but cheap archers produced by Hunters hut that passively gather low amounts of resources)

Siege:
Ram
Siege Hammer lv 2(unit with hammer that has strong attack against buildings)

Magic/ Myth
Bards (wizards with spells and low health and damage) - Unique for Odin?
Völva lv 2(priestess, could be a healer) - Unique for Freja?
Loki Worshiper lv 3(unpredictable unit with fire that can attack buildings and infantry requires Siege building) Unique for Loki?

Elite:
Jarl (requires Clansman upgrade (which requires Mead Hall, Longhouse and Armorer, and is researched as one of the upgrades at the Thingmote))
Berserker (requires Mead Hall and Temple)
Jomsviking (requires Armorer, Temple, and Mead Hall)

Navy:
Fishing Boat (produces resources slowly, limit of five)
Longboat (arrow boat that moves slow with high damage, and high health, that can be upgraded with higher defense and attack)
Knorr - Transport Ship
Karve - Cheap smaller ship with low damage, high speed, and low defense

Upgrades:
Mail- Improves defense of Norse Infantry other than Berserkers
Fly Agaric Mushroom- Improves Health and Attack of Berserkers and Ulfsarks
Leather - Improves Infantry and Archers defense against arrows
Steel - Improves attack of all units except Siege and Magic
Klinker- Improves boat health
Beitass- Improves ship speed
Dragon Ship- Improves health and damage


Buildings:
Longhouse- Trains infantry and ranged units
Mead Hall -heals and provides economic upgrades
Armorer - provides weaponry upgrades and produces Siege Units, required for Throwing Axeman.
Rune Stone Temple- Produces Magic and Myth Units and myth and magic upgrades and spells. Required for Spellbook.
Thingmote - equivalent to fortress, gathering place
Hunter's Hut - Gathers rescources(replaces lumbermill)
Bard's House- Produces Bards and Upgrades Spells of Bard, also provides buff to units near it.
Mine (replaces farm)

Possible new Mechanics:
I propose adding the ability to set buildings on fire using fire arrows, Loki Worshipper, or fire munitions. It would not be that hard to do, since there is already the ability to set trees on fire. Fire could damage buildings over time and leap from building to building, and would only affect wooden buildings. It could be put out with the Porter ability. Also, there could be a small chance of fire with the Armorer.

I also propose adding the ability for most non-elite units to die in one or two hits. The groups would be made up of many of these units providing higher health, but it would make the mod much more realistic.

[Námo]

... Zulus ...

Why only Zulus from that continent? There are lots of other tribes in Africa!

[Lauri]

Huscarls lv 2(high defense, high health, low speed, low attack)
Ulfsark (semi-high attack, really low defense, fast speed)
Berserkers lv 3(fast, high health, high attack, low defense, enraged ability?)

I'm wondering, what are you basing the stats on?

IMO, when you (all) say how a units stats should be, say how it should look, what it should wear.... Fine high defence or low is fine, high or low speed is a guess on the armour, but a horse isn't really affected by it too much...
why should they have low attack? or high? high health?
things like that

[empireruler]

Huscarls lv 2(high defense, high health, low speed, low attack)
Ulfsark (semi-high attack, really low defense, fast speed)
Berserkers lv 3(fast, high health, high attack, low defense, enraged ability?)

I'm wondering, what are you basing the stats on?

IMO, when you (all) say how a units stats should be, say how it should look, what it should wear.... Fine high defense or low is fine, high or low speed is a guess on the armour, but a horse isn't really affected by it too much...
why should they have low attack? or high? high health?
things like that

Ulfsark are based on the wolf. They were berserkers who wore wolf skin, so I would think that they were trying to have similar characteristics to the wolf. That would mean fast speed, low defense, and medium-high attack. Berserkers represented the bear. I would imagine them being slightly slower then the ulfsark with high health (due to the fact that once they went berserk they didn't feel pain) high attack, low defense (they wore no armor), with a possible enrage ability.
e
Longboats, although faster than other boats such as triremes, would have been slower than karves which were much smaller and more maneuverable.

[{IRS}Athos]

I'd trust Namo first... he's obviously a scholar of Viking history. According to him, Ulfsark were the working class, not berserkers.

[empireruler]

I'd trust Namo first... he's obviously a scholar of Viking history. According to him, Ulfsark were the working class, not berserkers.

Gotta dispute you on that
From Portuguese Wiki
Ulfsark
Origem: Wikipédia, a enciclopédia livre. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
The warriors vikings who wore skins of wolves in the battles were known as ulfhednar (úlfhéðnar), another tradition of beserks (skins of bear). These men were notorious for their tendency to get into frenzy during the battles. The ulfsarks struggling to foot, armed mainly with axes and swords. Usually wore little armor, preferring freedom of movement of heavy protection.

From Berserker page on wikipedia:

The Úlfhéðnar (singular Úlfhéðinn) mentioned in the Vatnsdœla saga, Haraldskvæði and the Völsunga saga were said to wear the pelt of a wolf upon their heads when they entered battle (e.g., Bernhari, Haimric, Hlodwig, Theudberga, Warinhari). Úlfhéðnar are sometimes described as Odin's special warriors, with the pelt from a wolf and a spear as distinguishing features.

Image of Ulfsark from Age of Mythology


Image found online of Ulfsark


An ulfsark is not a berserker, because the berserker represented the spirit of the bear, whereas the ulfsark represented the wolf. Wolf = faster but less health, bear = more health and damage, but somewhat slower.

Edited by empireruler, 13 May 2009 - 02:05 AM.

[Námo]

on Ulfsarks ...

Gotta dispute you on that

You are most welcome ...

... very good with some substantial debate, I think both Ulfsarks and Berserkers need some more explanation - I'll be away on some business for a few days, so for now just this:

• Don't trust Wikipedia etc. too much - there are some 'Viking Romanticism' on some of those sites (IMO the above picture looks like that). Usually you get the best information on 'Viking reenactment' sites (I'll post a list in the research topic soon) or from scientific research (not easy accessibly as most are in scandinavian languages)
• Odin himself did not have some chosen warrior-class, he did only support some of the strongest and legendary heroes (and those we know by their proper name) and he could sometimes be treacherous even to those, minding only his own designs. However all Viking warriors did worship Odin as the God of battle.

... and thanks for your keen interest in my ancestors

Edited by Námo, 13 May 2009 - 07:28 AM.