648 replies to this topic

[Allathar]

@ Olli: Which messages are you implying? I've seen the movie only once, like the other Tarantinos it requires multiple viewings to get the picture and fully appreciate the movie, so I haven't gotten all of them yet.

@ Vort: Kill Bill was just an action movie, beit Tarantino style, which means great dialogue, great filming, great violence, excellent scores, and absurdity. If you're into such things it's great, if not, it's a horrible B-movie. Inglourious Basterds is nothing like Kill Bill however. If you liked Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs you'll definately enjoy it.

[Pasidon]

If you enjoy good dialog, good stable action, and crude humor, then Qunit is perfect for you. If you like cheesy lines, too much action to see in a shot, and horribly transparent characters and plots, then you should stick with Transformers 2.

And Pasi, at least get the spelling correct.

I misspell something once in every 20 posts and I get called out. Keep the faith brother man.

[Bart]

I think a couple of topics got moved into the Open Topic and I have no idea what happened to the rest. I have no idea why this was done.

Everything was moved, because the forum had about 2 posts per week (in good weeks)

And you'll like Inglourious Basterds....it's just too brilliant not to

[Mathijs]

If you enjoy good dialog, good stable action, and crude humor, then Qunit is perfect for you. If you like cheesy lines, too much action to see in a shot, and horribly transparent characters and plots, then you should stick with Transformers 2.

And Pasi, at least get the spelling correct.

I misspell something once in every 20 posts and I get called out. Keep the faith brother man.

You have got pretty horrible spelling overall, I'd say.

[Ash]

Hi. Mine's a beer. Although I'm sure you knew that before I even sat down.

Quentin Tarantino sucks. Plain and simple. The orgy of destruction in Kill Bill 1 was fine (even though the premise was flimsier than the balsa wood you get at the bottom of Ikea drawers), then he made the second one. Which was the dethroning moment of suck. I can't imagine any of his other yarns being any better.

On the grounds it's by him is why I'm hesitant to bother watching Inglourious Basterds.

And Matias, he's only as horrible at spelling as every other American in the world. It's our language, they ruined it.


So what's with all this Obama bashing from every news station in America? I don't think one news channel had a good word to say about him the entire 10 days I was in Vegas. They made him sound like some sort of retarded Karl Marx, with more than a sprinkling of Antichrist thrown in...whereas he's clearly way, way smarter than the last one.

[Elvenlord]

Because we are the god damned United States of America. It's what we do.

[Ash]

Heh, ruining languages and countries, and slamming a half-decent government. Of course, a president's only as good as his cabinet - or whatever you have in the US that is analogous to a cabinet.

[Allathar]

Quentin Tarantino sucks. Plain and simple. The orgy of destruction in Kill Bill 1 was fine (even though the premise was flimsier than the balsa wood you get at the bottom of Ikea drawers), then he made the second one. Which was the dethroning moment of suck. I can't imagine any of his other yarns being any better.

On the grounds it's by him is why I'm hesitant to bother watching Inglourious Basterds.

Like I said, Kill Bill is nothing like his other movies. Didn't you see Pulp Fiction or Reservoir Dogs? No? Then your opinion doesn't count.

So what's with all this Obama bashing from every news station in America? I don't think one news channel had a good word to say about him the entire 10 days I was in Vegas. They made him sound like some sort of retarded Karl Marx, with more than a sprinkling of Antichrist thrown in...whereas he's clearly way, way smarter than the last one.

What, didn't you read his new healthcare plans? It makes Bush look like Einstein compared to a, well, retarted Karl Marx. Fuck, 15 years after the Cold War the communists have infiltrated the White House.

[Ash]

See? That shit's just what I'm talking about. Give me the short form, and explain to me in plain English what is so wrong with him wanting to create a universal healthcare plan (or, if you think he should, but should go about it a different way, explain what's so wrong with his plan)

[Phil]

What, didn't you read his new healthcare plans? It makes Bush look like Einstein compared to a, well, retarted Karl Marx. Fuck, 15 years after the Cold War the communists have infiltrated the White House.

Yeah right, communists. I find it amazing how many people here use the term "communism" without having even the slightest clue what it means. I urge all these people to educate themselves before calling Obama something he so clearly isn't.
Call his ideas what you want (health care is a very complex topic and every system has its flaws) but don't make him out to be anything other than what he is: a gentle reformer in the centre of the political spectrum.

[Mathijs]

Allathar, compare Obama's political compass to yours, you dirty communist pig.

http://www.political.../uselection2008

[Puppeteer]

What, didn't you read his new healthcare plans? It makes Bush look like Einstein compared to a, well, retarted Karl Marx. Fuck, 15 years after the Cold War the communists have infiltrated the White House.

The House of Un-Dutch Activities Committee is now in session. Ignorance is on the agenda, and how to quash common sense.

[Florisz]

The thing that keeps me going tonight, is trying to drive Cirno out of WoA forums. And guess what? WE WON! She's offline

[Allathar]

Obama's political compass may look like mine, but seriously, this new plan of his...

"They don't want the whole pie," she told the women. "There are some who do, but most Americans feel blessed just being able to thrive a little bit. But that is becoming even more out of reach. If we don't wake up as a nation with a new kind of leadership, for how we want this country to work, then we won't get universal health care. The truth is, in order to get things like universal health care and a revamped education system, then someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more."
- Michelle Obama

"So we're going to provide a $4,000 tuition credit, every student, every year, but, students, you're going to have to give back something in return. You're going to have to participate in community service. You're going to have to work in a homeless shelter, or a veteran's home, or an underserved school, or join the Peace Corps." - Barack Obama

From CMS at FreeRepublic.com:

• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the government option!
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.

Now, this all my seem well-intentional, but think about how much power the government gets over you with this. Seriously, for all I know Obama really is trying to reform it in a (in his opinion) good way, but read it, and realize how much power the government gets.

[Puppeteer]

and realize how much power the government gets

for the people's benefit.

Edited by Puppeteer, 09 September 2009 - 07:09 PM.

[Allathar]

Still. Power corrupts.

[Mathijs]

I can only agree.

[Florisz]

And if Matias agrees, it's probably true...

[Phil]

As true as it is, unless you go for an anarchist society someone will hold power in any area. The question is if you want private corporations or the state to have that power. I guess it's a matter of finding the right balance, as always.

[Ash]

"They don't want the whole pie," she told the women. "There are some who do, but most Americans feel blessed just being able to thrive a little bit. But that is becoming even more out of reach. If we don't wake up as a nation with a new kind of leadership, for how we want this country to work, then we won't get universal health care. The truth is, in order to get things like universal health care and a revamped education system, then someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more."
- Michelle Obama

So what's wrong with that, exactly?

"So we're going to provide a $4,000 tuition credit, every student, every year, but, students, you're going to have to give back something in return. You're going to have to participate in community service. You're going to have to work in a homeless shelter, or a veteran's home, or an underserved school, or join the Peace Corps." - Barack Obama

Personally? I don't see a great amount of problem in that. I don't massively agree with it, per se, but Universities push voluntary work as if it's the best thing ever. They are ALWAYS trying to get students to volunteer. I myself volunteer as an ICT support technician, and I've finished uni and am jobless. I don't think it'll be mandatory, but I think it'll boost CV (resume to you non-English speaking Americans) no end.

• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the government option!

So? A healthcare reform can only really work if it affects everyone. You can't go halves on this sort of thing.

• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!

Probably a good thing. Make sure the plans are up to snuff and are valid for everyone. This minimises risk and lowers premiums.

• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!

I'm not sure this is verbatim quiote from Page 29. And let's be honest, I think it's alarmist to say that if you've had to have a broken leg set you would have exceeded your so-called "rationing" if you need diabetes treatment sometime after. More, I figure that it's saying you can't get constant on-demand access to your GP. You will have to make an appointment like normal fucking people.

• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)

I'm sure there will be a disputes process. And let's be fair now - I really don't think this is going to affect your going to the GP to be treated, or your going to the hospital to get operated on. You're probably making more of this than there really is. Insurers are unlikely to give you anything more than you deserve. They're in it for the money too.

• Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.

'benefits'? Health is a perk in your society? Maybe you shouldn't have a fucking choice if you put up with that.

• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

Hippocratic fucking oath. And join the club. OUR immigrants get full jobseeker's, income support, child benefit etc. I think everyone has rights to at least rudimentary treatment for injury. Being forced to pay 20k if they get injured is unfair. I dread to think what'd have happened if I'd been hit by a car in your fucking country.

• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.

And this is bad...how? I have a national insurance number and card. This is just a reference number so they can check your records. It's hardly a criticism.

• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

Yeah. It's called 'TAXES'. I don't see what else they could legitimately take out. Look up 'national insurance contributions UK'. That's all this is.

• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)

The taxpayer already subsidises American soldiers being deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan GETTING injured unnecessarily. And in this country, taxpayers pay for immigrants, OAPs and the unemployed to receive what is essentially free money, on the understanding that if they need such money, they would receive it too in the same manner. This is not some underhand scheme to rob you and rape your money. This is not communism - this is mere centrism.

• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)

Ehm, good? Better that than have unscrupulous sharkish companies exploiting people as I'm sure they do now. It also ensures they pay out.

• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens

Lingustic infastructure does not translate as illegal aliens. It simply means that there would be an interpreter for a foreigner. We have that, even for our own fucking people. Oh wait, sorry, most Americans haven't heard of Scotland and Wales as separate countries.

• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.

Well, they won't do it for free, will they?

• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.

So? Surely that's a good thing? Alternately, you can opt-out. More fool you in any case if you need it and don't have it.

• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.

Good. Fucking money-grubbers deserve to be price-fixed. If what I see is true the fees are utterly exorbitant. If they make it more affordable, the only one complaining is the corporates, which implies to me the knee-jerk reaction to anything that doesn't shit on the little guy.

• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.

Oh, so doctors *might* take a bit of a paycut. Big. Fucking. Deal. Hopefully this'll go along with Page 124 and hit the money-grubbing corporates in the pocket too.

• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.

Probably incorrect. There will be additional alteratives that are more extensive, but they'll require voluntary contribution from the individual. This is not in any way dissimilar to the UK system.

• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll

Big deal. Again, if it shits on anyone other than the little guy, America complains.

• Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.

I don't understand how, if the healthcare is government-controlled, an indivudual could not have adequate healthcare. So why punish them for a govt fuckup? This is dubious, but most of these reforms would be surprisingly of benefit.

• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).

Well, what would you propose? Tourists always have insurance. Otherwise this just reminds me of the NHS. I don't necessarily agree 100% but the alternative is leave a dying man in the street because he doesn't have an American passport on him. From a moral and ethical standpoint, this is good. And to be honest, most non-resident aliens didn't have insurance anyway, so this hasn't changed one iota.

• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.

OK this I don't necessarily agree with. However the NHS basically has access to all personal records. And anyone in the government could get your financial records if they wanted to. I sincerely doubt this isn't already the case in the US, except instead of being in the hand of money-grubbing corporates they'll be in the hands of the government. I'm not saying this is better or worse, I'm just saying it's a different group with the same information. Hardly communism.

• Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.

. LOL that's just amusing. Again reminds me of national insurance contributions - it's basically a tax. Big deal over shitty wording.

• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”

Maybe they were getting more than they needed? Hardly different than current situation - poor people never get the services they need. Especially in your current situation. Your country does nothing to help the poor as it is.

• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)

I doubt this'll be a massive issue. They'll still be paid well, and I'm sure there'll be bonuses for seniority or expertise. I really don't think a neurosurgeon is only going to get the same as a GP.

• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.

Translation: The government pays the doctor an hourly wage.

• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.

Stops them getting out of control.

• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.

Good! Too many people have those things anyway.

• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!

Ok, not great. I will agree this is wrong.

• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.

Translation: If you are negligent, you're fucked. Surely that's better than subpar care requiring additional treatment. I don't think it includes necessary readmissions or relapses. You people love to read too far into things.

• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!

Good. Conflict of interest + moneygrubber removal. If you've ever heard the phrase cowboy builder (will usually diagnose additional faults to ramp the price up), you'll understand why I'm for this.

• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.

Hrm, odd, but no big.

• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.

Oh, so they have to go through usual planning permission channels instead of auto-build. Don your hammer and sickle and start a cossack dance - Obamachev is in the white house...(!)

• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.

INCORRECT. This is basically a way of making sure ppl get the best treatment - try the most likely thing to work, then the next-most...and so on. Evidence-based is a correct word. Or are you people as unscientific as you are bigoted and resistant to change?

• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.

So?

• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.

Ehm no. They'll just set criteria as to what qualifies. Which the private system basically has. It's called the DSM-IV. Diagnostic Statistical Manual. Look it up.

• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).

NHS helpline. We have this already. It's hardly a big deal, and it's not necessarily bad.

• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?

Not necessarily bad. More alarmist bullshit.

• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.

Advsors and counsellors? How is this a criticism?

• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.

Vets get to put animals down. Why force a human to suffer? What is the opposition to euthenasia? And I really don't think the govt will force it on you. I really do think that the alarmist reactionaries are blowing a horn over nothing. It surely doesn't give the authority this reactionary article purports.

• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.

Better to devote it to someone you can save than someone you can't. If we're going to go by cold, hard figures, this is economically sound.

• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.

I'm sorry what? You're against home-visits? We have them in this country. They're called district nurses. ZOMG COMMUNISM.

• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.

No. No it doesn't. It just means that they're covered by the USHS, as opposed to private counsellors. Big. Fucking. Deal.

• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.

Not rationing. Just including in the USHS.

I really do believe there's more reactionary bleating than anything justifiably objectionable here. Sure, I will grant a couple of things seem a bit 'ahem', but when you look it's just that the government holds the card and not an insurance company. They aren't stealing your civil liberties; there is nothing here that the NHS doesn't already do unopposed. In fact, this reform is nowhere near as 'invasive' (as you reactionaries might put it) as the NHS' powers.

At the end of the day, it may not be perfect, but it's a start, and it can be tweaked and amended to work better. No new system or invention is initially perfect. Give the man a fucking chance before you crucify him.