16 replies to this topic

[khamulrulz]

in the hobbit, there were some great big goblin warriors like the great goblin, and even when the fellowship goes to moria, frodo is stabbed by a tall moria orc (in the book; in the movie it was a cave troll). i was thinking that another elite unit from the goblin cave could be "Goblin Brutes" re-skinned and scaled down half-troll swordsmen from rotwk. i doubt ea will care honestly.

[Gfire]

They thought the Orc that stabbed him came from mordor.

But anyways, yeah, they might have been uruks and/or hobgoblins. That might be nice.

[MirkwoodArcher]

HG's should be included, as they were mentioned by Tolkien and because one of them had a role in Moria. Would they be part of of Mordor faction or does SEE have a goblin faction?

Edited by MirkwoodArcher, 22 October 2009 - 12:37 AM.

[Dant]

HG's should be included, as they were mentioned by Tolkien and because one of them had a role in Moria. Would they be part of of Mordor faction or does SEE have a goblin faction?

SEE got Moria faction(Goblins), However HG is best idea in my opinion.

[MirkwoodArcher]

HG's should be included, as they were mentioned by Tolkien and because one of them had a role in Moria. Would they be part of of Mordor faction or does SEE have a goblin faction?

SEE got Moria faction(Goblins), However HG is best idea in my opinion.

Really, they have a Moria faction? Then in that case, the HG's should be included.

[Dant]

HG's should be included, as they were mentioned by Tolkien and because one of them had a role in Moria. Would they be part of of Mordor faction or does SEE have a goblin faction?

SEE got Moria faction(Goblins), However HG is best idea in my opinion.

Really, they have a Moria faction? Then in that case, the HG's should be included.

Ermmm...we discuss about this in "SEE Development> SEE Evil Factions> Moria faction."

Edited by Dant, 22 October 2009 - 12:45 AM.

[MirkwoodArcher]

HG's should be included, as they were mentioned by Tolkien and because one of them had a role in Moria. Would they be part of of Mordor faction or does SEE have a goblin faction?

SEE got Moria faction(Goblins), However HG is best idea in my opinion.

Really, they have a Moria faction? Then in that case, the HG's should be included.

Ermmm...we discuss about this in "SEE Development> SEE Evil Factions> Moria faction."

Well, as you know I'm new to this mod and haven't had a chance to try out the beta yet. I guess I should've put two and two together.

[Dant]

Just kidding Mirk , Don't took it as serious stuff.

*Back to the topic*

[khamulrulz]

yeah. since naz is starting to use more and more rotwk stuff, why not use a fully functioning unit from rotwk - the half-troll swordsmen. the palantir art and voices are already done; we just need to do a similar rescaling and reskinning that we gave the half-troll marauders (which look really awesome as the goblin guardians)

[Gfire]

I don't think they've taken anything new from RotWK since the original few models.

[Nazgûl]

Yes, the "Hall of Kings"... last night =P

Well, I don't see any NEED for more units... Why not simply rename the elite unit in Moria to HB's?

Edited by Nazgûl, 28 October 2009 - 12:31 PM.

[Arveanor]

Umm, naz, I think the point is that all the goblins units are weaker early game units with the exception of the two available units of goblin guard dudes.

I can't say I disagree, either

[isledebananas]

I have to agree though that Moria really is lacking. Normally armies you send out for offense are usually low level probably only having the banner upgrade to lvl 2 and the AI sometimes doesn't even have that. With the goblins its just not enough to pack a punch. No matter how many goblins you have against more powerful units it wouldn't be enough especially if they are around healers.

However to fit with the goblin playing style the more powerful units should all be limited in how many can be on the field at one time. That way the initial goblins don't become obsolete. Anyways that's how I think it was the more powerful troops were very few amongst the goblins. Also, they wouldn't be like the elites in that they have bonuses.

I personally think that Moria should scrap the mountain giants(Nazgul I know how much you hate the fissure). Instead they will get a troll cage. This will produce two different trolls. One will be their heavy siege it will be a troll with a giant spear the production cap on these will be quite high. The second will be a hammer and chain wielding troll(toggle) but this one the cap will be smaller. I know the cave troll was supposed to be a heroic unit for them but I think it fits better like this it seemed more of a lackey anyways.

Another idea is a siege bow team. It would look like this but of course with goblins carrying it and a more Moria-ish look. While it can be used for siege it is best used for taking out units. The problem is it is relatively vulnerable to attack because it is slow(move and fire rate) and not so good at close range. It wouldn't have the splash damage like ballista though since the bolt is not that big and thus the force is less.

Have the berserker goblins been scrapped? I think a high damage type goblin should be added one that is quite fast on their feet as well. They would be a horde though but with less units than a regular goblin horde. However the hit-point increase would be minimal.

[Gfire]

I think the problem is they can't surround enemies enough, with the BFME pathing and large hordes. In the movies the goblins weren't shown as really any weaker than the Orcs of Mordor. I don't see why they can't be buffed a little.

[isledebananas]

I don't really see where you get that goblins aren't much weaker than orcs. Physically they are a lot weaker than the main fighting troops(orcs not Uruks) that Mordor sends out. But goblins aren't supposed to be used in the same manner orcs are, mainly as you said to surround enemies and bog them down. They have the necessary capability for this their speed and the amount they have in hordes. However, against some factions quantity can't really beat some of those quality units especially if your assaulting the enemy base. Max level elite hordes could defeat an entire army if they have a heroic statue and fountain nearby. The goblins would have to be really buffed for them to hope to take such odds.

The way I see it is the goblins need to use both the stronger units as well as the main goblin units to be a really dangerous fighting force. The stronger units can't stand on their own without the vast army of meat to keep enemies off them and the goblins can't pack the punch to take out more powerful units effectively enough.

It was shown in the attack in Balin's tomb how all the goblins were defeated pretty easy but the troll was the one that almost dealt a serious blow. Now I know your thinking well that was a fellowship of heroes but in the movie they aren't ridiculously strong like in this game. When they were surrounded by all those goblins when they were running though they seemed a bit worried but if it was in the game they wouldn't have had to sweat at all.

Edited by isledebananas, 18 December 2009 - 12:00 PM.

[Gfire]

Where do you get "Physically they are a lot weaker than the main fighting troops"? I don't get that impression from the films, and definitely not the books. From what I can tell the Goblins aren't really weaker than Orcs of Mordor. The same fellowship heroes were taking out Uruks just as easily at Helms Deep, it seems.

However, I think to do some real damage you'll definitely need some trolls and things. But scaled-down halftrolls, names as hobgoblins, would probably work pretty well.

[isledebananas]

The difference in strength can't really be measured well against the Fellowship since they are full of very powerful heroes even by movie standards. However, look at the attack during Amon Hen it was somewhat difficult for them.

There is a reason that Mordor and Isengard use orcs and uruks. If they were the same then what is the reason to make a new breed. Only Saruman specifically made Uruk-Hai to counter the sunlight problem but even they were stated to be stronger than regular orcs. Mainly I think it has to do with armament. The goblins barely had any armor whereas orcs attacking Minas Tirith were quite heavily armored not to mention with bigger weapons.

I don't know much about half-trolls except they are mentioned to be part of Harad strangely, though if they are truly half troll or just huge ugly men its never stated. I think though that Moria faction should be fine with trolls and a more damage orientated goblin warrior at the price of armor.