22 replies to this topic

[Arthadan]

I've read the dragon fortress monument currently in the Moria faction could go to the Evil Men one. So, a new Monument for the moria faction would be needed.

Since its theme is Balrog & spiders, I think the Balrog statue near the bridge of Minas Morgul in the film could fit the bill:



(Image taken from a LotR miniature scenery building page: Link )

The whole thing is too big for a fortress monument, but maybe taking just the shoulders and the head would do.

[khamulrulz]

hmm... the dragon's nest would only move if rhun was split from harad.
i think that the balrog will be used as a ring hero for moria, so my only guess for the fortress monument is a fire drake or shelob.

[Fobbi]

mh well i won't like to see the dragon monument in rhun or harad faction but the "balrog statue" seems rly cool to me. @ khamulrulz: that doesn't have to mean that you will be able to summon a balrog it could maybe have another function f.e. causing great fear over half of the map (cavebats radius) nerfing enemy unit's armor or something like that the balrog could stay as a pp summon or as the ring hero in the next beta.

Something other: Instead of using this statue as the fortress monument we could use it as a little statue because the existing is kind of ugly and i don't like the idea with that big drum + troll =)
just some suggestions sorry for my bad english =D

[khamulrulz]

the drum is being used as a "heroic statue" because it fits the moria faction more than a minas morgul statue. i honestly think that the dragon's nest should stay in moria, and rhun and harad should stay as one faction, with the mumak monument.

[Nazgûl]

*note*
Hehe... I hear you all - but in the end, I'm still gonna go with what I envision for SEE, unless a suggestion really catches my eye. Some of the recent change in plans have actually to some extent more or less, sprung from Fan/player ideas. So keep them coming, just don't be too upset if some things won't happen as you'd like them to
*note end*

The Moria Fortress Monument won't change unless we split Rhun & Harad yes. If so, the theme of the Rhun faction will be dragons, as it would be mumakil for Harad and Balrog and Spiders for Moria. That means that both Drogoth and the dragon "nest" (monument) would be moved and reskinned to fit Rhun. In my head, it all looks sweeeet I tell ya, hehe. For moria, which this topic is about atm, we'd create a new monument that features the balrog and spider theme. It could very well be something like the movie prop (even if it doesn't really look like the balrog) ^ along with some spider webs...

[khamulrulz]

i'm just not clear whether the balrog is a ring hero or a fortress monument thing. i think he's powerful enough to be a ring hero, so perhaps the monument summons one of the "unknown evils" that have tunneled through moria since the beginning of time. some sort of demon. another suggestion is shelob. if she were more powerful, anyway.

so then the monument would be a spider's nest.

Edited by khamulrulz, 12 November 2009 - 09:40 PM.

[RalphDamiani]

How about this for Moria? A crude spider like monument sculpted in rock with the lidless eye carved on it? The goblins could worship it like a totem, placing offerings, human and animal heads below it? I'd imagine nothing too fancy. In fact, I think Sauron's statue is far too sofisticated for orc sculptors.

Here's something I sketched this morning:

Edited by RalphDamiani, 13 November 2009 - 11:09 AM.

[RalphDamiani]

What happened to the drums, weren't they replacing the statue? That was a nice idea.

Edited by RalphDamiani, 13 November 2009 - 11:08 AM.

[khamulrulz]

the drum is the new "heroic statue".

this thread is for the new fortress monument to replace the dragon's nest, which may go to rhun in 4.8
i say that it should be a "spiders nest", summoning shelob.

[RalphDamiani]

Oh I see.
Hmm, I not sure I can picture a Spider's Nest looking good on top of a Fortress. Perhaps something more totem like as I suggested, or at least made of metal scraps to fit the theme.

[RalphDamiani]

Just throwing a random idea here:

What if the Fortress final upgrade is the Spider nest (or statue), which allows you to summon Shelob, and Shelob gets the following powers in addition to her current:

- Breed spiders - Summons up to 2 hordes of spiderlings. When they reach level 2, they become giant spiders (goblin's elite unit)
- Cannibalize - Allows Shelob to eat other spiders to replenish health quickly
- Insatiable hunger - Shelob regains small amounts of health for each unit killed.

This way, of course, giant spiders are no longer available as regular units, get a considerable buff and are only available as late game units. And they would be unique in the sense they spawn from a hero unit instead of a building.

I think it would be an interesting chance for unique gameplay, and in a sense also encourages to keep Shelob as a defense/stationary unit so you can keep spawning your elite units.

Edited by RalphDamiani, 13 November 2009 - 09:37 PM.

[Prince of the Dark Forest]

I like your ideas Raplh, but one problem...

I don't think summons can level up so the spiderlings (by which I mean the tiny teeny fortress expansion spiders) wouldn't ever reach Lv2. The unit selection only shows its timer and no level.

Perhaps, if we could get the summons to be permenant, and find a way to enable Levelling for summons it might be possible.

Instead of 2 health boosting powers, I suggest only using 'Insatiable Hunger'.

[Sûlherokhh]

I like your ideas Raplh, but one problem...

I don't think summons can level up so the spiderlings (by which I mean the tiny teeny fortress expansion spiders) wouldn't ever reach Lv2. The unit selection only shows its timer and no level.

Perhaps, if we could get the summons to be permenant, and find a way to enable Levelling for summons it might be possible.
...

Already done ...

...
Instead of 2 health boosting powers, I suggest only using 'Insatiable Hunger'.

... and planned.

[Nazgûl]

What happened to the drums, weren't they replacing the statue? That was a nice idea.

Yeah, like Kham said... the drum is in already, replacing the heroic statue =)
With any luck, we'll have a cave troll troll be able to "attack" it and hit it a few times, which would give Call the Horde for Moria, and you can spawn goblins without any build time This troll might also be the Cave Troll hero, only. And the power would probably be equipped with a long reload time =p

For the fortres creature monument... I think they should always reflect the most powerful monster of the faction (for those factions that have a CREATURE monument, that is). Their "god" in a way, I guess...
- Gwaihir for Elves
- Mûmak for Harad
- Drogoth for Rhûn
- Balrog for Moria

Mordor have their miniature version of Barad-dûr, just like Isengard has the mini Orthanc, Erebor the giant catapult and Gondor the tower... For Rohan, we'd probably have some kind of signal fire tower. None of these faction have a "faction monster", like the others above. For Moria, current plans involve the Balrog not being summonable, until the fortress monument is built. Having the Ring would mean that the Balrog would become more or less "invincible" and defenitely without a timer. Just like Saruman. But these things are for the Ring Hero topic though

[khamulrulz]

ah i see the position on the balrog now.... so he is the fortress monument hero, then gets buffed when moria gets the ring.

for rohan, i suggest a tall wooden structure in the middle of the fortress called "monument to the tree-folk" - enables them to build treebeard, who is moved from the elves.

[Arthadan]

I can see the logic behin your suggestion, khamulrulz, but it's not compatible with the lore (only battle ents and Rohirrim fought more or less together was the Helm's Deep). Ents could be a summon but having them as monuments would be very.... EA, if you take my meaning.

I'd suggest a signal tower (build in the center of the fortress) summing elite Gondor troops (4-6 catapults would be specially handy for Rohan, I guess), with a timer as Erebor's catapult upgrade.

Regarding Moria, if we're strictly speaking about Moria itself and not all the Goblins of the Misty Mountains, the Balrog makes plenty of sense (and has full meaning as greater Hero). But the spiders don't (balance issues and everything, I know). Spiderlings were in Mirkwood and Shelob quite clearly in Mordor, so they would make sense in a Dol Guldur faction (having Shelob as the Spider Queen of Mirkwood, which is not lore but something like that is reasonable to exist). In fact, I'm going to post in the appropiate section my proposition about splitting Moria and Dol Guldur, so Naz can say a big NO.

Edited by Arthadan, 14 November 2009 - 08:45 AM.

[khamulrulz]

i guess the signal fire works too, but i would like to see treebeard with rohan. from what i gather, he has peaceful relations with the rohirrim when he lives in the valleys of isengard, and ents also protected orc invasions into the wold while rohan's forces were at minas tirith, not to mention fighting at helm's deep.

the way the monument would work is that you have an ent that you can build at a fortress, and then once you get the monument, you can build treebeard (similar to how you can build an eagle at the elven fortress, and then gwaihir with the monument). he would be stronger than he is now, and merry would still be able to mount him. if not, then he could just be a regular hero for rohan, unless they get an entmoot like the elves.




back on the moria subject, the faction includes the orcs of the misty mountains (like the great goblin in the high pass), as well as the spiders of mirkwood, which ties nicely to the whole "corrupted wild" concept. dol guldur had some authority over orcs of moria at the time of the ring, so the "moria" faction actually stretches much further to mirkwood and all of the misty mountains, and the ettenmoors.


and i agree with the balrog monument, but i don't want it to look like a morgul statue.

Edited by khamulrulz, 14 November 2009 - 08:49 AM.

[Prince of the Dark Forest]

Looks great (Ralph??)!

Is that meant to be as a heroic statue (cos Moria already have one) but if Nazgul decides to make a spider monument for the Goblin Fortress, this could be used!

[RalphDamiani]

That wasn't me, but well done!