104 replies to this topic

[RalphDamiani]

I couldn't disagree more with the OP. Sure you could watch this for the outstanding CG, but that's completely beyond the point of this movie. It wasn't made to be just eyecandy. James Cameron is one of the few directors these days employing special effects to actually tell a story. It's not Transformers or 2012, and 20 minutes into the movie I completely forgot Pandora isn't a real world, or that those Avatars weren't people in blue makeup, or that nothing in there actually existed. I was so involved with the characters and the Na'vi's culture, with Jake's journey of discovery, that Avatar could have been a classic Pixar animation, and I would still have liked it.

Yes, Jake -does- act like a moron, or like a child and a great chunk of the movie -has- to be spent on his personal growth as both himself and the audience are gradually exposed to Pandora and its marvels. That's character development, the whole drama that adds conflict to the plot, something that would be sorely missing, if, say, Dr. Grace was the protagonist.

Now, one could argue that nothing in that script is original, and I think even James Cameron would have to agree. He admitted most of it was based in every single sci-fi story he read as a child, and it does borrow from many classic movies and westerns. However, that is also beyond the point! One must judge the story for how well it works onscreen and the relevance of its messages. And boy, is it relevant these days. It is actually disturbing how someone can "side" with the marines after watching them taking down the natives gigantic home tree (a clear analogy to the World Trade Center), how you can sympthatize with their racial slurs, and sheer ignorance for anything other than their greedy purposes and hormone driven military attitude. How can you push for characters that are indifferent to all the destruction they cause in a land that is not theirs? Doesn't it all sound so modern and familiar?

If you go watch this movie and leave the screening without being touched by at least one of its many contemporary anti-imperialism, pacifist and ecological warnings, you're probably missing the whole purpose of this movie. Another sad outcome of the Bush "terror against terror" era, as implied in the movie itself.

[Beowulf]

Fanboy alert.

[OmegaBolt]

No, he's right.

For once there's a movie using a lot of CGI that isnt saying "LOL CGI". The characters are supposed to be real, as a apposed to all those crappy CGI kids comedies and what not. Anyone who thinks "OMG they're fake, don't take it so seriously" is obviously pretty dense, and probably a person who also thinks games should only be made for a laugh, and not be a serious creative medium as well.

If you don't appreciate Avatar, go watch Zombieland.

[Beowulf]

If it was so good, why was I so unimpressed by the whole thing? Not that the movie even interested me in the first place since it looked dull and preachy.

[mike_]

Because it isn't your cup of tea? Different opinions, tastes et al.


EDIT: And you're the resident Scrooge, so you have to do this kind of thing once in a while

Edited by mike_, 22 December 2009 - 05:29 PM.

[RalphDamiani]

If it's "good" or "bad" is a matter of personal taste. Now, a movie can be technically outstanding -and- substancial, and yet not reach you on any emotional level. If you're a fan of action movies, Avatar is no Terminator. If you like comedy, there's almost no moment of laughter, it's certainly no True Lies. If you like blockbusters, it's no Transformers, there's nothing there just for the sake of grandness. If you like romance, it's certainly no Titanic. In that sense, it's very unique and requires you to go watch it with an open mind.

This is a movie that requires you to feel immersed, like any good fantasy movie. If there's nothing in your personal life experience that makes you step into Jake's Avatar shoes (or lack thereof), you'll probably find it dull and uninteresting. However, it is not bad filmmaking and it is not morally irrelevant. It's just difficult for you to relate to it. Regardless, even if you dislike the adventure, it still carries very contemporary political and ecological messages, which makes it worthwhile for the general audience.

PS: Oh, yes, you can sign me in as a fan if sequels are made. They're well deserved.

[RalphDamiani]

By the way, if you require proof of Cameron's skills as director, notice how every single element of Pandora that is introduced in Jake's journey in the first act is later used somehow to enhance the story. Nothing is inserted just for the sake of "looking cool", from the technology to the biology he comes across. Compare this to directors like Michael Bay and McG and their poor attempts of "epicness" by making things louder and bigger and you'll notice how things are tied together far more professionally.

Edited by RalphDamiani, 22 December 2009 - 05:51 PM.

[OmegaBolt]

I wouldn't say that is his skill as a director, rather as a writer or story teller. Personally Cameron doesn't have much of a directing style (particularly Avatar, which had a lot of angles I've never seen him use before) but his stories have similar arcs and themes and his movies are generally pretty "epic" in one sense or another.

I don't think there should be sequels though, but if there are they should definately be done by Cameron. He's clearly very good at sequels. TBH I can imagine punk-ass directors like Bay and "McG" jumping at an Avatar sequel... I just hope they don't get the rights. Having said that people probably thought the same about Aliens...

Edited by OmegaBolt, 22 December 2009 - 07:03 PM.

[Puppeteer]

you're probably missing the whole purpose of this movie.

The purpose of the movie is profit. Don't fool yourself into thinking that he was primarily aiming to convey warnings and humanitarian rationality.

Edited by Puppeteer, 22 December 2009 - 07:22 PM.

[Allathar]

Seems to me that Cameron was more like 'I've always wanted to do cool stuff with 3D on alien planet with awesomeness tech! What story can I fit around that?' rather than 'alright, this is the story, how can I do it?'. Which usually doesn't translate into very good movies. But I'll see.

[Beowulf]

Because it isn't your cup of tea? Different opinions, tastes et al.

I suppose.

It's just difficult for you to relate to it.

That hardly seems relevant to enjoying a story or movie. Like... I don't relate at all to John McClane yet I thoroughly enjoy the Die Hard series. That in itself makes the point entirely moot.

[OmegaBolt]

Well you understand that he's trapped in a building with terrorists on Christmas Eve and wants to kill them so he can eat some Christmas turkey...

[Beowulf]

That's understanding the story, but that's not really relating to the character so to speak.

[duke_Qa]

Sympathy is basically putting yourself in the same situation as the highlighted character and considering if you, theoretically/subconsciously, would do the same as him. If he does something you wouldn't do, then he loses sympathy in your eyes.

If you at the same time don't have the needed verisimilitude, you will have a hard time getting into that state. Because anything the guy does is something you wouldn't do "because its not real".

also, when you've seen a hero's journey story one too many times, you have to find a way to enjoy it anyway, and that's when the small subversions and little details around the story makes it worthwhile. And avatar certainly has those details all over the place.


Also, I can imagine Avatar will work pretty well as a triology, it left behind a few strings that can be embroidered into a good climax. I fear that the middle movie might get annoyingly formulaic, with no proper ending, but Cameron did good work on Aliens so he should be able to get a good standalone story down with just enough threads for the last one.

[Mathijs]

I just saw this, and I am blown away. Yes, the story isn't exactly new or original, but it serves as a vehicle for the blow-your-mind visual spectacle that spans the entirety of the movie. It is absolutely gorgeous, and I appreciate it as such.

[Archon]

I plan to see this in 3D on New Year's. I can't wait.

[Pasidon]

notice how every single element of Pandora that is introduced in Jake's journey in the first act is later used somehow to enhance the story.

Ate my bait. That just goes to show nothing is sacred and everything is significant. Why can't there be ah' element that makes the movie more believable? The big ol' creatures at the start were a nice touch, until I realized Cameron used em' just for ah' entrance to be significant in the movie. Everything was significant with the story. That ain't spit for Cameron's ability to direct. It shows he can't be original in his style. Every Hollywood big-shot throws a big story out and ruins it with pitter-patter. Dare I compare to G.I. Joe...

[mike_]

Please. If it wasn't significant later in the story, Pas, you'd say it was pointless and shouldn't have been there in the first place.

I think you just don't want to like it

[Vortigern]

Mike's got a point, Pasi. You're looking for things not to like about this. Maybe you should just watch it with an open mind and, instead of picking up on every little flaw, marvel at the spectacle and allow yourself to enjoy the story, however predictable it may be.

[Allathar]

Just saw it. Enjoyed it for the most, but Pasi has a point... The story sucks. Instead of going for something original with the great visuals, Cameron goes for a retelling of Dances with Wolves. In Space. Meh, I could think up a dozen plottwists that would make the movie a lot better. For example, have Colonel Awesome control a secret avatar of some sorts, or have him be an avatar himself, instead of making him the cliche military bad guy (but my god, he was one badass mofo). The story potential of the avatar technology was huge, but all Cameron did was use it for his standard plot. Missed potential indeed. Also got to complain about the cardboard characters and horrible dialogue.

The visuals were gorgeous though, and that was wat the movie really was about (I saw it in 3D, it was really well done), the movie really takes you to another world. The wildlife was beautifully designed as well. If only Cameron could write a couple of good plottwists and threedimensional characters (pun very much intended) it would really have been a classic. Now, it's just an okay movie with stunning visuals.