104 replies to this topic

[mike_]

Erm... his brother was cremated. Jake watched his casket and body burn.

And bugger off about ripping off of other plots. He's been working on the idea of the film for almost fourteen years, and by God, there's been more than a few films made in that time. Of course you're going to find similarities - doesn't mean you have to turn stones and write conspiracies to access them

[Pasidon]

You'll take his secret to his grave, I'm sure of it.

I can't wait for the sequel. There was a happy ending for the Indian girl and the explorer... no sequel for that tale. Cameron doesn't have anything to rip off now.

Oh wait... I was wrong.
http://en.wikipedia...._to_a_New_World

There's your sequel.

[some_weirdGuy]

James Cameron has confirmed that the sequels will be a continuation of the love story between Jake and Neytiri. Cameron has also mentioned the possibility that the sequels will not just be about Pandora, but about the other moons orbiting Polyphemus or even the rest of the Alpha Centuri system. [1] Another rumor is that the sequels could look at the interior of Pandora. So perhaps we will see some of the marine life of Pandora in the sequels. James Camron has a whole underwater landscape mapped out apparently. ref - http://www.ivillage....tails/1-c-72082

Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana have signed for a trilogy. [2] It is rumored that Giovanni Ribisi will return as Parker Selfridge. It is also rumored that Stephen Lang will return as Quaritch, though he died in the end of Avatar. [3] This may mean that the next film may be a prequel, or has certain scenes from before the first film. It could also mean the RDA cloned Quatrich or built him a new body as in an interview, Lang says "It's not over while I've still got DNA" strongly hinting towards a possible ressurection of Quatrich. ref - http://movieblog.ugo...-lang-interview.

and @vort:
As mike said (and i also already said), the human DNA in there is only to ensure the 'pilot' can interface with the body. It is not like they are a proper hybrid, more like a navi with a a tiny hint of human DNA. Thus why they are so navi like and so not human like. Also, theres no reason why those navi bodies would be sterile, as they are quite different to, (using a previous example we used) a mule.

You're just too biased to be able to have a proper opinion on the matter

((You've closed yourself into a box made of preordained concepts and are now trying to prove absurdities which have only arisen due to said box. Stand back and look at this from a less skewed view, and all these inconsistencies and absurdities you have come up with will dissolve into nothingness ))

[Allathar]

Erm... his brother was cremated. Jake watched his casket and body burn.

And bugger off about ripping off of other plots. He's been working on the idea of the film for almost fourteen years, and by God, there's been more than a few films made in that time. Of course you're going to find similarities - doesn't mean you have to turn stones and write conspiracies to access them

His body burn. Doesn't mean the mind of his brother can't be still out there. Hell, his brother was a scientist in the Avatar project - he could easily have made another body to occupy, or clone his own body to fake his death. While his ‘real’ body and mind are still out there, using various human Avatars to avoid suspicion and plot his revenge.

Because, he (or his fake Avatar clone) didn’t die from natural cause – he was murdered. Because he knew something, or was planning something. Something big – he found out about another alien species, scientifically very advanced and also quite military. He isn’t too fond of the human race anymore, and wants to start over by wiping out the Earth. For that, he needs unobtanium to start building his alien armada.

So, my guess is, the sequel will involve more humans coming to Pandora, including Jake’s brother in a human avatar (he wants to see what happened to his brother, and also get more unobtanium to build his alien armada for his evil plan). He isn’t too happy with the outcome of the previous movie, however, and is the antagonist now. At the end, Jake faces him, where he hears the legendary words: “Jake… I am your brother!” After that Jake learns that his brother has made an avatar of another alien species, and uses those aliens to invade Pandora and Earth.

This will be the plot of the third movie – where the humans and Na’vi fight together to fight the alien invaders (secretly led by Jake’s brother, which only Jake knows), and Jake goes on the quest to find out where the real body of his brother is to finally stop him.

Only to figure out the horrible truth – he isn’t just his brother’s brother – he is his brother. Turns out he was just his clone all along, the first human avatar prototype, fed with false memories (the memories up until the start of the first movie weren’t really his at all) to avoid suspicion (it was part of a military project, to use throw-away clone humans in war instead of risking real lives). Which explains why he is a marine instead of a scientist, like his brother – and a quite good one too (oh, and the legs were just a malfunction). His brother wasn’t too happy with the plan of the military though when he heard of it (he just thought it was an experiment to make human avatars), as he thought of Jake as a real human instead of ‘just’ a clone. The military wanted him to make more though, which he couldn’t do, so he just decided to kill everyone who knew of this secret programme. He ‘missed’ one though, the colonel from the first movie, who ‘killed’ Jake’s brother (and thus knew that Jake was in fact a mere clone all along). The colonel knew Jake’s brother wasn’t really dead at all (only another clone avatar) and was part Jake’s brother’s plan in the first movie to get the unobtanium for the alien armada.

Now that I think about it, a pretty cool plot. No?

[Vortigern]

Nice, Allathar. I'd watch that.

SWG: Come back when you have a degree in genetics. I'm going with the best information I can find at the moment, and that tells me that messing around with the DNA of a species is going to have far more serious results than simply allowing a human consciousness to use a fake body.

Actually, I have one problem with the whole Avatar program. I know James Cameron came up with this years ago and science has advanced a lot since then, but still. If any of you have seen Joss Whedon's latest project, Dollhouse, you'll understand what I mean when I say that the Avatar program is rather unnecessary. For any of you that haven't seen it, I recommend you do. Really start watching at Episode 6 of Series 1, that's when Fox stopped interfering with Joss Whedon's ideas. Man, I hate Fox.

[RalphDamiani]

On the subject of the Na'vi being humanoid, I think it's pretty clear their design was deliberately constructed in order to make the audiences relate to them on an emotional level. They have big eyes, the same expression ranges and body language we have. Notice how they seem to kiss, just like humans, in order to bond, while they could employ a far more logical way to connect, since they developed an specialized organ for that. There was no attempt there to be realistic whatsoever, just a cosmetic concern to make them outworldly beautiful, but still fairly human.

Keep in mind most of the audience will not question the suspension of disbelief to that extent. It worked for Star Trek and Star Wars, and a number of other fantasy universes. On the other hand, you can't have a love story gone unquestioned if your romantic interest looks like a far more believable alien, such as Giger's Alien or perhaps the arachnids from Starship Troopers.

You could also argue the film didn't need romance to work, and I would love if the general audience hadn't been conditioned, in decades of filmmaking, to expect this formula. But that's how Hollywood works and has always worked. Most successful scripts are different versions of the Hero's Journey, with a fair share of romance, one or two plot twists and the triumph of good over evil. You can't blame Cameron for that.

By the way, for the sci-fi geeks, Ain't it Cool has a very interesting (and well written) article about the science of Pandora: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43440

I'm sick of anti-white/anti-west propaganda trash films thinly veiled as "fantasy films" such as this that Hollywood keeps spewing out.

Oh, the big bad EVIL AMERICANS killing the Natives...gee...typical.

The analogy is so blatant.

Err, you do realise this is an american movie made by an american director? I believe you're missing his point. It's surely an anti-war movie, very in touch with everything that is happening around the world. And all the "good" human characters are still americans who have come to realise mass slaughter is not the answer to settle any ideological conflict. Some don't even undergo this change of character, being "good" from the time they appear on screen. I think Cameron did a good job at showing different points of view despite of racial boundaries.

If anything, this is a very pro-west movie, in the sense marines are portrayed like terrorists, killing civilians and destroying their homeland in order to make a statement. And what actually moves the plot forward is how these terrorists are disrupting the balance of Pandora.

There are though, some Bush era references (terror against terror). They're anti-west, if you sympathize with authorities waging wars for profit (oil - unobtanium), which is also another form of terrorism, as implied by the script.

Edited by Vortigern, 07 January 2010 - 03:56 PM.

[Pasidon]

Yeah. Yet the movie seemed more anti-human than anti-white / American.

[some_weirdGuy]

Come back when you have a degree in genetics. I'm going with the best information I can find at the moment, and that tells me that messing around with the DNA of a species is going to have far more serious results than simply allowing a human consciousness to use a fake body.

well when 'transferal of consciousness into artificial bodies' is a field of study in a genetics degree then it might help

Anyway vort, the overriding rule in how realistic/not this is is the fact that its set in the future, with space ships that can travel to other star systems and mechs and holograms and machines capable of transferring consciousness' to avatar bodies and a plethora of other super advanced futuristic scientific things. So in the face of all that are you really going to continue complain that the avatars are unrealistic?

Besides, you speak about it as if they took some navi dna and some human dna in a bowl and then went at it with an egg beater, which is obviously not the case. The science is in the result. They never said what parts of the dna they manipulated, how they manipulated it, anything.

That fact of the matter is the movie shows the avatar bodies to be exactly like Navi (not like humans, not some weird cross between human and navi, but like normal navi, which demonstrates that the human dna input is minimal), except without a mind of their own, instead being able to house a humans mind, and looking slightly similar to the 'controller' they were made for. Thats what their advanced futuristic "messing around with dna" resulted in.

DNA is a wonderful thing in that you can do practically anything if you know how to. Just because certain things are beyond our understanding now doesn't make them unrealistic in a sci fi movie set in the future.

But anyway, enough of this, you are set in your views, and its not like any amount of convincing is going to change them. Sorta like how you can't convince a christian god doesn't exist.

Actually, I have one problem with the whole Avatar program. I know James Cameron came up with this years ago and science has advanced a lot since then, but still. If any of you have seen Joss Whedon's latest project, Dollhouse, you'll understand what I mean when I say that the Avatar program is rather unnecessary. For any of you that haven't seen it, I recommend you do. Really start watching at Episode 6 of Series 1, that's when Fox stopped interfering with Joss Whedon's ideas. Man, I hate Fox.

Whats it about?
and yes, fox can be a pain.

---------
Here, check out this site vort:
http://www.pandorape..._avatar_program

It talks about the avatars and some of the science behind them. Even i learnt some stuff i didn't know about them. It also supports that human dna input is minimal.

Edited by some_weirdGuy, 08 January 2010 - 10:45 AM.

[mike_]

That said, some human traits are subtly present in the Avatars - such as five fingers instead of the four of the Na'vi, smaller eyes, and eyebrows.

[Vortigern]

Well yeah, it's all science fiction, so I don't mind, I'm just pointing out pure scientific issues. One more point: why do the weird gravity effects around the floating mountains affect all the instruments on the human aircraft, but have no effect whatsoever on the avatars? You'd think if the anomaly is strong enough to have mountains suspended in the sky and completely scramble radar, altimeters and whatever else, it'd be enough to break a tenuous incorporeal mental link between two bodies. But whatever.


Dollhouse: In a nutshell, programmable people, kept in a tabula rasa state and given new personalities to suit their engagements. Once you get past the Fox-induced action sequences that make up the first five episodes, you get into a real Joss Whedon thing, and it's awesome.

[some_weirdGuy]

Probably got more to do with it being a movie and so if the avatars didn't work in those areas then they couldn't go to them, and they didn't want that

And that sounds pretty cool (the doll house thing)
Even though unrelated, for some reason it makes me think of surrogates (the movie where they have those surrogate bodies they live though instead of using their real body, came out a little while ago)

[Casen]

Err, you do realise this is an american movie made by an american director?

Honestly that is completely besides the point.

There's plenty of anti-American/treasonous media in the U.S.A. made by "Americans" who don't hold any good nationalist values.

[Vortigern]

Maybe they hold nationalist values for another country? Who are you to judge? And it's not beside the point at all. You can't make complaints about anti-Americanism in media and then ignore the origin of the filmmaker.

Also, the fact that you refer to it as 'treasonous media' suggests to me that you are a pillock, and everything you say should be struck from the record with immediate effect. Of course, most of us already knew that.

It's a fucking film! James Cameron probably doesn't have a secret agenda, and if he does, who gives a shit? It's an enjoyable film if you don't sit there going "Why are the bad guys Americans? James Cameron is American! How can he do this to his people? He owes us, the ungrateful little shit!" If you're going to go for a Cameron conspiracy, at least notice thte obvious: his initials are JC, the same as John Connor, his most famous character, and Jesus Christ. Maybe he's the new messiah. Maybe he's the messiah reborn? James Cameron is Jesus! His films are the Bible of the new era! Except Titanic, that was disappointing.

[Mathijs]

good nationalist values.

Oh you.

[Bart]

Patriotism is a arbitrary veneration of real estate above principles.

maybe James Cameron is a case of:

I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.

[Pasidon]

Who cares if he hates America. His problem, not ours.

Maybe he's the new messiah. Maybe he's the messiah reborn? James Cameron is Jesus! His films are the Bible of the new era!

If by Jesus you mean Ronald McDonald... then yes.

[mike_]

Oh, Kacen, you and your archaic beliefs.

[Pasidon]

http://www.hulu.com/...rt-laser-cats-5

Cameron at his best...

[Elvenlord]

Guys, the plot is pretty much Pochontas in space. The disney film. In space. Get over it.

[mike_]

Translation: It's not funny anymore Pas.