48 replies to this topic

[Tropical Bob]

The Imperial Security Bureau, Alliance Intelligence, and the Corporate Security Liaison Office have recently begun funding programs to actively investigate recent engagements. They plan to determine new ways to effectively counter their respective enemies' ships and tactics, in order to emerge as the victor out of the ashes of what has become known as the Galactic Civil War.

These efforts include:
-Debriefing a randomly selected number of surviving crew members, as well as the surviving highest positioned commander.
-Observing any and all surviving holocam recordings.
-Analyzing the data assembled.

The Emperor, Alliance High Command, and Executive Direx Board are all confident that this new policy will yield information important for their military.

Edited by Tropical Bob, 24 January 2010 - 10:39 AM.

[Tropical Bob]

In case it wasn't evident, I started this thread in order to consolidate and discuss any multiplayer after action reports that anyone can bring to us for PR. You can use whatever format you wish, but try to keep it clean and organized. You can also follow my format if you're lazy.

Unfortunately, for the couple matches that I had against shadowrevan266 tonight, my Xfire video kept cutting out after the first few minutes of the match, and it turns out I only have the free trial of FRAPS, which limits videos to 30 seconds (I thought it had said 30FPS or something. D'oh.). So I don't have any video to offer. Shadowrevan266, on the other hand, has video of the first two matches. So when he can get around to posting those on YouTube, and offers the link, I'll put them here.

Tropical Bob (Corporate Sector Authority) vs. shadowrevan266 (Galactic Empire)
Bespin Beatdown
The Battle:The game started in conflict and kept at it. Both the CSA and the Empire stormed the Mining Asteroids in the top right corner. The Empire hired out Boba Fett to reinforce its GAT-12 and other small ships, but, while effective, their strength was stifled by the overwhelming numbers of YV-666s that the CSA rapidly chugged out. CSA Marauder-class Corvette support met with quick ends, the first immediately upon arrival, the second to the next Imperial wave. A Carrack-class Light Cruiser and Acclamator-class Assault Ship entered the fray, attempting to bring the Imperial might to the forefront. Shortly after exiting hyperspace, the Acclamator's fighter support diminished, and its Carrack-class escort was destroyed. The surviving Acclamator was brought down, and CSA dominance ruled over the valuable Mines. A side force of YV-666s, Mankvims, and Skipray Blastboats liberated the Merchant Dock, disallowing Imperial heroes from being summoned to battle. The force then moved on the last Mine under Imperial control, severing its cash flow. The CSA moved to take advantage of this new development by advancing with two Invincible-class Dreadnaught Heavy Cruisers. The Empire, reeling from the loss of so much territory, called for all available reinforcements. Consisting of not much more than an Acclamator and some support, suffice it to say that the new CSA Victory-class Star Destroyer put an end to the last vestiges of the local Imperial Fleet. Another Victory-class joined in to mop up the Imperial Space Station, and claimed victory for the Corporate Sector Authority.
Summary: The CSA proves a danger early game. Swarming with impunity, fighter superiority was established relatively early. Any larger ship resistance was met with durable Transports and a couple Bombers. With fighter superiority, the CSA held the majority of the Mines, denying important cash flow to the more money-dependent Empire. From there, it was only inevitable that the CSA would bring in enough heavy firepower to finish what its Fighters started.
-Early game: Tie: The Empire put up a very good early game fight, and the CSA didn't start wining out until towards the mid game. It was a long struggle for that Mine.
-Mid game: Corporate Sector Authority: The CSA established domination and held it.
-Late game: Corporate Sector Authority: The CSA took advantage of its domination and finished off with a clear victory.
Comments:
-The CSA is heavily reliant on Fighters early game. Its initial ship roster is either outclassed by its Imperial or Rebel counterparts, or too expensive in Credits and time to invest in that soon. The key to defeating the CSA is to counter its Fighter swarm. Transports are probably the best option for doing so. Fighters will be incredibly overwhelmed by Mankvims, or hunted down by YV-666s. For the Imperials, spam whatever GAT-12 Skipray Blastboats that you can: they'll dominate Mankvims, and hold up well enough against the YV-666s for larger support, or just more Blastboats. 5-10 of them seem to do rather well against the AI-controlled CSA, so I would probably go with at least 10 to win out against a human.
-The CSA's capital ship roster is hardly what one could call powerful. The Invincible-class Dreadnaught Heavy Cruisers are not much more than butter to pad the heavier ships. A long, rather unwieldy behemoth, it doesn't have enough concussion missiles to scratch much more than perhaps a Cruiser at best, and its guns are too light to rival anything large. At most, it's a tool to scare fighters off. Both the Recuscant-class Destroyer and the Dreadnaught-class Heavy Cruiser can do more against Fighters, while still employing enough heavy guns to to some damage to larger ships. The Victory-class Star Destroyer is probably the most effective of all the CSA capitals for most of the game, until the Imperial-class becomes available. Despite being, I think, slightly stripped down from its Imperial version, expect to see the Victory-class to form the backbone of the CSA fleet. The main strength of the roster is not in raw power, but in entering the battle, hopefully, without too much resistance, since the early fighter superiority has weakened or destroyed a lot of opposition.

Tropical Bob (Galactic Empire) vs. shadowrevan266 (Alliance to Restore the Republic)
Endor Ablaze
The Battle: The Empire and the Rebels quickly clashed at the bottom left Mine. Confident in its strength, the Empire attempted to win out quickly with a few groups of GAT-12 Skipray Blastboats, and follow up with two IPV System Patrol Crafts and a Carrack-class Light Cruiser. The Rebels had a different idea of how events would pan out, however, and proved tricky by bringing in late reinforcements in the form of several Barloz-class Medium Transports. These heavy Rebel craft soon established their dominance as the Empire tried to salvage the failing scenario by bringing in more Skipray Blastboats. The IPVs and Carrack were forced to retreat when a Nebulon-B Frigate appeared, but not without casualties. Some TIE Fighter meat shields attempted to distract the pursuers long enough for the retreat to finish. It proved successful, and both IPVs and the Carrack made it back to the Space Station's umbrella, along with several Skipray Blastboats. Meanwhile, the Rebels gained control of the Mine. To counter the tide of enemy Fighters and Transports, the Empire called in a Dreadnaught-class Heavy Cruiser, only to find that the Rebels have done the same. An equal matchup, to be sure, but not when the surviving Skipray Blastboat squadrons from earlier, now reinforced to a total of 10 groups, assisted the Imperial Dreadnaught. The tide quickly turned, and the Rebellion was forced to fly reinforcements from across the area to save its soon to be lost Heavy Cruiser, as well as deploying a couple more Fighter squadrons escorting a couple Bomber squadrons. The Imperials accessed Nebulon-Bs of its own to stem the tide of Rebel Fighters, Transports, and Bombers, while the Skipray Blastboats and Dreadnaught bombarded the enemy counterpart. It was forced to retreat when it lost its support, while being chased by the Skipray Blastboats. The Imperials launched one last proton torpedo volley before heading home, sure that the Rebel Dreadnaught was finished. But alas!, it lived, just barely, and limped back to safety, and repairs. The Imperials had a desire to expand to more Mines, and launched an offensive against the lower-left Mine once again. The Rebels brought out their reserve of Barlozes to counter the Imperial push. But the Empire unleashed the possibly greatest creation to spawn from the Galactic Civil War, and swayed the order of battle to its side. Three Lancer-class Frigates exited hyperspace, and laid waste to the Rebel defense. The Imperials further secured the Mine by reinforcing with two of its new Strike-class Medium Cruisers. Attention turned to the top-right Mine, still under Rebel control. The IPVs and Carrack that survived from the beginning rushed out to take it, hoping to take it unawares, but the Rebels had it defended with Transports and Fighters. Three more Lancers were commissioned to mop up, and the Imperials secured that Mine as well. Upon returning to the lower-left Mine, the Empire was surprised to find a Reef Home-class MC80 Star Cruiser attacking. The Strike-class Medium Cruisers were holding their own against a much larger foe, but not for much longer. The Tector-class Star Destroyer arrived in time to see one Medium Cruiser go down, and it, with assistance from the remaining Strike Cruiser, destroyed the Mon Calamari Cruiser, but not without damage. Modular Taskforce Cruisers came to repair Imperial ships in the field. To ensure no more Rebel Fighters or Bombers were called in, the Empire destroyed the X9 Fighter Factory, and retreated, even in the face of imminent victory. With only one more MC80 to defend the Space Station, the Empire bided its time. In order to support its final victory, the Empire sent several ships to their deaths. Then, Death himself was unleashed, in the form of a Praetor-class Star Battlecruiser. The Rebels lasted only minutes longer, granting victory to the Empire.
Summary: The Rebels proved a greater foe than expected early game, securing the majority of the Mines available. Through the use of ships designed to deal ultimate destruction against the Rebels, the Empire forced the Rebellion back, and secured the Mines for itself. The game turned into a stalemate, with the Rebels not wanting to attack the superior Imperial task force, and the Empire not wanting to end the game before it could showcase its Star Dreadnaught.
-Early game: Alliance to Restore the Republic: The Rebellion came through with a strong early game.
-Mid game: Tie: The Empire began to present a stronger opposition to the early Rebellion domination.
-Late game: Galactic Empire: The Empire pulled through and drove home the token Imperial power.
Comments:
-Surprise can be a large factor in the game! Appearing weak to tempt an attack, and then suddenly outnumbering the enemy can force panic and retreats. Along the same lines, keeping the enemy engaged before bringing in something to directly counter what's present, or retreating before a pursuing enemy into more of your own forces work as well.
-Knowing the mechanics of the weapons present can be a boon. For instance, normally a Dreadnaught's quad laser cannons can do a lot of damage to even heavy Transports. But by circling Skipray Blastboats out of laser range, you can keep the powerful anti-capital weapons of the Skipray Blastboats, proton torpedoes and concussion missiles, in range. Wave after wave of damage will hit the enemy ship without friendly forces taking any damage in turn. It also keeps them condensed, and easier to regroup and move on if necessary.
-Freighters are key. Without them, the Empire would have been broke once it was left only one Mine in its control. Freighters provide income, at the cost of Population. To be a significant source, probably get 10 or more. Be careful, though! Such an important ship is also quite the frail butterfly. Easily destroyed, keep them behind the Space Stations, or at least behind strong ships. They're easily replaceable, but will take valuable time to do so.

Tropical Bob (Alliance to Restore the Republic) vs. shadowrevan266 (Galactic Empire)
Peril Above Polus
The Battle: The game went on for a long time before the Rebels and Imperials met each other. The Rebels took the top two Mines, and left the rest to the Empire. Instead of playing the early game, the Rebels went for a late game approach, and built up its economy and production capability. 10 GR-75 Medium Transports provided the early income until the CTF Container Transports became available. 25 of these adorned the Rebels with immense riches, and the, now outclassed, GR-75s went on a suicide self-destruct run against a couple Imperial turrets and an IPV. The turrets were destroyed, and the IPV ended up with minor hull damage. The Rebellion scouted around for gathering enemy forces, and bided its time, constructing a powerful fleet for when it was needed. The Empire launched a small Freighter raid against the top-left Mine, which was countered, somewhat unnecessarily, by a Recuscant-class Destroyer. The battle entered a temporary cease-fire, as the savage people of Tabasco launched a savage attack on the citizens of Tropical Bob's internal organs. The matter was shortly dealt with, and the battle resumed. The Empire and Rebellion both built their respective fleets up for a time. Until the Rebellion had to decide on its risky strategy: attack now, hopefully have enough forces to destroy the Imperial Space Station, and claim victory, or wait longer and perish in a cascade of green Imperial flame. The former was chosen, and a decent Bomber fleet of 10 groups of Gamma-class ATR-6 Assault Transports and 5 squadrons of BTL K-wing Assault Starfighters set out. Upon sight, the Imperials countered with an uncountable, innumerable, spread of Fighters, Bombers, and Transports of all types. Apparent from the number of the enemy, the Bomber fleet couldn't accomplish its mission alone. The Rebels supplemented its assault with an Independence-class MC120 Star Cruiser. The Imperials countered once again. An Imperial-class, Tector-class, and Venator-class Star Destroyer all arrived, granting no quarter, in addition to the masses of Bombers, to the Rebel Dreadnaught. Two Recuscant-class Destroyers and two Republic-class Star Destroyers reinforced the Star Cruiser, but not in time to save it. The MC120 gave the final blow to the Imperial Space Station, thwarting the nearly complete construction of an Imperial Star Dreadnaught, and perished shortly thereafter itself. Its death only freed up resources to support a Bulwark-class Battlecruiser, which, with help from the Republic-class Star Destroyers, shredded the Venator- and Imperial-class Star Destroyers. An unintended consequence of eager gunners led to the death of the Imperial X9 Fighter Factory before the remnants of the Imperial Fleet could be finished. The Rebellion claimed victory.
Summary: The Rebels planned for a late game push, while the Imperials developed a large amount of reactionary forces for early and mid game pushes. None came, so when the time came to finally attack, the Rebels had enough strength to accomplish the main objective: destruction of the enemy Space Stations. The Imperials were not without strength themselves, but not quite the type to counter the Rebel attack, which consisted of very durable ships.
-Early game: Tie: Neither side did much at all, except take Mines. The Empire took one more Mine, but it didn't provide a clear game changing difference.
-Mid game: Tie: A clear map existed for most of the game, and despite a few traded ships here and there, neither faction much attempted, or succeeded, to gain an upper hand.
-Late game: Tie: Even though the Rebellion came through with a victory, the Empire provided a distinct threat even as its Space Station fell to pieces. The Rebellion luckily saved itself by preventing a Praetor to enter the battle, and the Empire had a well-balanced fleet prepared for most circumstances.
Comments:
-Scouting is important. While you can't see the enemy's reinforcement pool, a lack of evident expansion could indicate the enemy is bunkering up for the late game phase, or being a reactionary force. If the enemy has a lot of Freighters, it probably points to late game, since the Freighters will eat up a lot of Population. Either way, the enemy's strategy is somewhat more visible. The Empire can utilize IPVs early game to help counter enemy Fighters and Frigates, and have the added bonus of the Sensor Ping ability.
-The durability of certain Rebel forces is evident from this battle. The Gamma-class Assault Transports and K-wing Assault Starfighters took tons of damage, while dishing out tons of its own, before going down. The Independence-class Star Cruiser held up against a strong fleet with ample Bomber support for a long time. The main chunk of life for the MC120 comes from its shielding, a strength it shared with other Mon Calamari Star Cruisers. Be sure such ships can be countered by utilizing either a lot of direct high damage weapons that will pass through shields, i.e. proton torpedoes, proton bombs, etc., or ships with a decent number of ion cannons, i.e. Imperial-class Star Destroyers. Of course, it's not always possible to be prepared for any circumstance, but being aware of the main ships a faction will probably use, such as Mon Calamari ships for the Rebellion, can help guide general strategy.

Phew. That took a lot of intensive memory searching, as well as about three hours to write. I'm gonna go pass out for a while now.

Edited by Tropical Bob, 24 January 2010 - 10:18 AM.

[Phoenix Rising]

Thanks much for writing this up! Hey, even Wedge has to do debriefings, so uh, it's part of the immersion. Heh.

Questions for you and/or shadowrevan on Bespin Beatdown. Roughly how long did the match last? In your opinion, is there currently too much emphasis on map control? In other words, does controlling the mines always predict a victory? Did the income provided by the YV-666s prove to be a decisive advantage?

Might I suggest, in the case of the CSA spamming the Empire with starfighters, to simply ignore them and adopt a siege strategy. Build enough Skiprays and anti-fighters to hold them off long enough to deploy a Dreadnaught-class Heavy Cruiser. The only ways they can effectively counter that is with their own Victory-class (a substantial investment), a pair of Dreadnaughts (which you have Acclamators to handle), or massed Marauders (which Skiprays tear up). In the meantime, build up a small task force of Dreadnaughts and Carracks and start sieging their base. My bet is they stop building fighters.

And yes, the Invincible is really nothing more than a roadblock to direct the flow of battle. They're awful in combat, but not very expensive. If you can, keep one in reserve to throw in front of your mines when they get attacked.

Questions/comments on Endor Ablaze. It sounded like both sides were able to tech up in this match. How did you find the build times for tech? They should be long enough to make you worry, but short enough to be worth queuing. Do you think the Skipray is overpowered - can anything counter it? I find that the Barloz does an okay job against them, but is that the case against a human player? Bob, you mentioned freighters, but not Lambdas. Is there a reason you don't use them other than preference? I think they can deal with a Barloz swarm pretty well, especially with Skiprays blocking their missiles.

On Peril Above Polis, this is perhaps the most interesting summary because it would never happen with the AI. You both independently decided to hold off? Then there was a lot of fighting at point-blank with the stations. What's your assessment of station durability? That's really hard to determine against the AI. Is it possible to repel an all-out assault without losing one or both stations? Did the repair abilities make any difference in the battle? Tabasco, ha - that sounds like one of the minor factions from TIE Fighter. Maybe I'm the only one who would think that...

Again, thanks for doing this; it's really the first feedback I've gotten on multiplayer. If anyone else is able to post their experiences, I'm sure we could figure out aspects to improve upon.

[shadowrevan]

I have bad news. When I went to edit the videos today I found most of them to be corrupted. I did fix the problem for the next time, but the videos were lost. It was because I normally record to a external Hard drive, but I didn't have the hard drive, and forgot to change the settings back.

In your opinion, is there currently too much emphasis on map control? In other words, does controlling the mines always predict a victory?

No controlling the mines does not predict victory, as shown by the battle of Endor. If you know that having freighters increases credits than it doesn't predict victory; however, if you do not know of that fact, then yes it would predict the out come.

It sounded like both sides were able to tech up in this match. How did you find the build times for tech? They should be long enough to make you worry, but short enough to be worth queuing

The build times were reasonable. It is all about timing. I chose to upgrade when I had either just got the upper hand, or just built a small force capable of defending a point on the map for the duration of the build time.

Do you think the Skipray is overpowered - can anything counter it?

I found that the Barloz was a good counter. It was more the way that Bob was using them. He would get them within their weapon range, make them fire, and then break off and fall back, rinse and repeat. To make sure the Barloz was most effective, I added Z-95s and Xwings to the assault to guard them and take fire away form them. That being said I was never able to destroy all of the skiprays on the map.

What's your assessment of station durability?

The stations can go down extremely quickly with a supported bomber raid. The repair ability of the stations didn't come in to play at all, during the battle. we both had taken a more defensive approach rather then an aggressive one. If the win conditions are set for destroy enemy space station then the person who gets off the first attack in a defensive game like this will be the victor.

The biggest improvement that would be nice for multiplayer is that all maps should have a way to build heroes. Though heroes are not necessary they add another layer of strategy and can turn the tide of battle, not just the big heroes with capital ships, the hero I found most effective was Bobba. What really makes the difference is the level of knowledge about the units. Since there is not a description of the special properties the units have (such as freighters giving extra income) then the person who knows more about the units will always win.

[Phoenix Rising]

I have bad news. When I went to edit the videos today I found most of them to be corrupted.

That's fine - the three-hour explanation was probably as informative as videos would've been. Either way is good.

No controlling the mines does not predict victory, as shown by the battle of Endor. If you know that having freighters increases credits than it doesn't predict victory; however, if you do not know of that fact, then yes it would predict the out come.

Well, the thought I had after reading the debriefings is that perhaps we're not giving the star bases enough base income. Mines are worth 15 credits/second, the Golan provides 5 per level to a max of 15, and the Factory currently has no income (which, admittedly, is kind of weird, but it was a later addition). Comparatively, freighters, being fully-upgraded, provide a lot: a single BFF-8 is worth 3 and a Barloz Mk. 10 group yields 1.2, just to name two average representatives. That's pretty screwed up... let me crunch some numbers out loud:

Income
Golan I - 5
Golan II - 10
Golan III - 15
Asteroid Mine - 15 x 4-8 per map
Transport Group - 0.7-1.8
Freighter - 1.5-4.5
Starting Cash - 0-25000 up-front

Expenditures
Fighter - 8.57-75 (average ~45)
Bomber - 34.3-55 (average ~50)
Transport - 21.3-83.2 (average ~65)
Freighter - 43.75-118.1 (average ~55)
Corvette - 42.9-89.3 (average ~75)
Frigate - 58.5-112.5 (average ~100)
Cruiser - 55.2-118.5 (average ~100)
Destroyer - 31.9-158.6 (average ~110)
Capital - 62.1-140.6 (average ~120)
Dreadnaught - 113.7-217.9 (average ~135)
Golan Upgrade - 55.6
Factory Upgrade - 41.7
Asteroid Mine - 1000 up-front

Yeah, I don't really like how that looks. I'll have to increase income from stations and reduce it from units. Guys, your matches have altered v1.2. That's the highest achievement a tester can realize.

Do you think the Skipray is overpowered - can anything counter it?

I found that the Barloz was a good counter. It was more the way that Bob was using them. He would get them within their weapon range, make them fire, and then break off and fall back, rinse and repeat.

You know you can do the same thing with the Barloz, right? Fly right at something and turn around just before you hit laser range.

The stations can go down extremely quickly with a supported bomber raid. The repair ability of the stations didn't come in to play at all, during the battle.

Okay, I'll see what I can do about the bombers. I could allow the repair ability to work on the stations themselves (they're currently excluded). I guess I'll try that.

The biggest improvement that would be nice for multiplayer is that all maps should have a way to build heroes.

That can probably be done. Really we need some custom Skirmish maps badly.

[Tropical Bob]

Questions for you and/or shadowrevan on Bespin Beatdown. Roughly how long did the match last? In your opinion, is there currently too much emphasis on map control? In other words, does controlling the mines always predict a victory? Did the income provided by the YV-666s prove to be a decisive advantage?

-The map is small, and therefore very confrontational, especially with the Merchant Dock in one corner, and the Mines in the other.
-I wasn't aware that YV-666s provided income. I used the BFF Bulk Freighters as the CSA.
-Controlling the Mines definitely doesn't predict victory. Income provided by Freighters is probably more decisive, since you don't have to waste units in combat to get their income. I would definitely increase the necessity for Mine control. If you increase their income, and decrease the Freighter income somewhat substantially.

Questions/comments on Endor Ablaze. It sounded like both sides were able to tech up in this match. How did you find the build times for tech? They should be long enough to make you worry, but short enough to be worth queuing. Do you think the Skipray is overpowered - can anything counter it? I find that the Barloz does an okay job against them, but is that the case against a human player? Bob, you mentioned freighters, but not Lambdas. Is there a reason you don't use them other than preference? I think they can deal with a Barloz swarm pretty well, especially with Skiprays blocking their missiles.

-Map note: there is a Mine in a nebula in the center of the map. It's in range of either side's Golan, and is destroyed in short order. If any skirmish mapping gets done on your side, that's definitely a priority to edit.
-Tech is definitely affordable and feasible. The build time is neither too short, nor too long.
-The Skipray is definitely strong, but I don't think overpowered. Like I mentioned, a Dreadnaught can dish out a lot of damage to them unless you hover outside its quad laser range. The Barlozes fare pretty well against them, even if they don't match up exactly.
-I haven't really tested Lambdas out too much, so I don't know their capabilities. I bought two or three groups during Match 2, but they didn't play a huge role. As soon as I needed to retreat, I cloaked them and they were the first units out. Then they sat around until I sent them to die.

On Peril Above Polis, this is perhaps the most interesting summary because it would never happen with the AI. You both independently decided to hold off? Then there was a lot of fighting at point-blank with the stations. What's your assessment of station durability? That's really hard to determine against the AI. Is it possible to repel an all-out assault without losing one or both stations? Did the repair abilities make any difference in the battle? Tabasco, ha - that sounds like one of the minor factions from TIE Fighter. Maybe I'm the only one who would think that...

-The stations are very durable. Even with the 5 K-wing squadrons and maybe 8 Gamma-class Transport groups battering away the hull at the same time the MC120 was drilling at the shields, the Golan III took a while to destroy. Even the Praetor took a little while to take a Golan II down. The X9s are a little weak though. Even if you repel an assault, I figure that will most likely go down.

Again, thanks for doing this; it's really the first feedback I've gotten on multiplayer. If anyone else is able to post their experiences, I'm sure we could figure out aspects to improve upon.

I've been hoping to get more online skirmish matches going, but no one seems to ever be on Xfire, nor respond to the Multiplayer thread. So I can never much contact anyone.

I have bad news. When I went to edit the videos today I found most of them to be corrupted. I did fix the problem for the next time, but the videos were lost. It was because I normally record to a external Hard drive, but I didn't have the hard drive, and forgot to change the settings back.

A sad day, indeed. Maybe Xfire will work for me this time. Especially since I have my external HDD for tons of video space.

The stations can go down extremely quickly with a supported bomber raid. The repair ability of the stations didn't come in to play at all, during the battle. we both had taken a more defensive approach rather then an aggressive one. If the win conditions are set for destroy enemy space station then the person who gets off the first attack in a defensive game like this will be the victor.

I wouldn't say extremely quickly. The X9s, sure. But the Golans can take a bit of a beating.

And I'll certainly change the victory settings for the next match.

The biggest improvement that would be nice for multiplayer is that all maps should have a way to build heroes. Though heroes are not necessary they add another layer of strategy and can turn the tide of battle, not just the big heroes with capital ships, the hero I found most effective was Bobba. What really makes the difference is the level of knowledge about the units. Since there is not a description of the special properties the units have (such as freighters giving extra income) then the person who knows more about the units will always win.

While the person who knows more about the units has a distinct advantage, it doesn't necessarily guarantee a victory. You came pretty close in the second match. And the third one probably would have ended with a win on your side if the Praetor came into play.

That's fine - the three-hour explanation was probably as informative as videos would've been. Either way is good.

I'll try to have videos for the next round. I just have to get Xfire to stop cutting the video recording out on me.

Well, the thought I had after reading the debriefings is that perhaps we're not giving the star bases enough base income. Mines are worth 15 credits/second, the Golan provides 5 per level to a max of 15, and the Factory currently has no income (which, admittedly, is kind of weird, but it was a later addition). Comparatively, freighters, being fully-upgraded, provide a lot: a single BFF-8 is worth 3 and a Barloz Mk. 10 group yields 1.2, just to name two average representatives. That's pretty screwed up... let me crunch some numbers out loud:

I would definitely take out the Transport income, decrease the Freighter income, and raise the Mine income. I was also thinking of either making turrets a little more durable, or giving Mines some sort of rudimentary defense. A couple turbolasers and regular lasers, perhaps.

Yeah, I don't really like how that looks. I'll have to increase income from stations and reduce it from units. Guys, your matches have altered v1.2. That's the highest achievement a tester can realize.

Anything I can do to help!

You know you can do the same thing with the Barloz, right? Fly right at something and turn around just before you hit laser range.

From my experience with both, I believe the Skiprays are more maneuverable though, and maybe a little faster, making it easier to do such an attack.

Okay, I'll see what I can do about the bombers. I could allow the repair ability to work on the stations themselves (they're currently excluded). I guess I'll try that.

That would definitely help out a little. I think the Bomber runs are still balanced though.

That can probably be done. Really we need some custom Skirmish maps badly.

I can look into some mapping tutorials, and see if I can come up with anything to show you if I gain any sort of proficiency.

[Tropical Bob]

Tropical Bob (Corporate Sector Authority) vs. shadowrevan (Galactic Empire) vs. Medium AI (Alliance to Restore the Republic)
Race for Ryloth
The Battle: The match was an endless battle from beginning to end. The Rebellion had a ceaseless need to throw Fighter squadron after Fighter squadron at the CSA, while the Empire viciously expanded using a fleet of several GAT-12 Skipray Blastboats. The CSA soon found itself being overrun, and moved quickly to upgrade its Fighter Factory for access to more powerful Transports. Upon completion, the Empire soon began to advance on the Space Stations of the CSA, while the Rebellion brought in a Dreadnaught-class Heavy Cruiser. The CSA thwarted the Imperials' efforts by massing over a dozen Firespray=class Patrol and Attack Ship groups and a few Skipray Blastboats of its own. Once the Imperial advance fell, the CSA turned its attention to the Rebels, while the Empire did the same on the opposite side. The CSA brought in a Victory-class Star Destroyer to close down the bottom-left Mine of the Empire, while another took to the upper part of the map and wipe away the Rebel nuisance. Once the Mine in the lower-left was dealt with, the Victory moved upwards, toward the Imperial Space Stations. A suicide mission, of course, but one to draw attention, and do what damage it could. Meanwhile, the Rebel Space Stations were crushed between a pincer of Victorys, an unintended coordinated effort between Imperial and Corporate forces. Soon the Rebels were defeated, and the CSA and Empire advanced upon each others' fleets. A sight to see: Victory versus Victory, Firespray versus Skipray. Were it not for an Imperial Dreadnaught at the left hand of its Victory, perhaps the Corporate Capital Ship would not have been lost. But it was, at the cost of the Imperial Victory, as well as all its Transports, and almost its Dreadnaught as well. Major losses, and terribly few survivors, for both sides. The suicide mission was over by now as well. A minor Skipray assault from the Empire put two Invincible-class Dreadnaught Heavy Cruisers into the fray. Both Commanders now had enough time to regroup his thoughts, and plan his next attack. The CSA chose an all-out assault. Sending a wave of three Victory Star Destroyers at the Imperial Space Stations, the CSA was sure to meet resistance, but end its enemy's capacity for retaliation under an onslaught of concussion missiles. Surprise, however! The Empire was no fool, and sent two Victory Star Destroyers of its own at the Corporate Space Stations, accompanied by none other than a Praetor-class Star Battlecruiser. Realizing how vain any Capital Ship engagement would be against a ship that powerful, the CSA chose a different approach: use what time the Golan II could buy, and call in as many Skipray Blastboats as possible. The Imperial Fighter Factory was destroyed, leaving it only whatever Fighter support it could launch from its hangars. The CSA enjoyed Fighter superiority nonetheless, leaving any Skiprays unassailable by the Imperials. The Corporate Space Stations succumbed to the might of the Praetor, cutting short any more Skipray reinforcements, at about the same time the Imperial Golan II, almost upgraded, was destroyed. All in all, around 10 groups of Skiprays arrived to slowly pummel the Imperials into submission. All hands were lost on all three Victorys, and one Invincible, but eventually the Skipray Blastboats destroyed the heavy Imperial Star Battlecruiser. After a couple stragglers were mopped up, the Corporate Sector Authority emerged victorious.
Summary: The presence of the AI threw a wrench into all the plans of the Empire and CSA. Not much more than an annoyance at best, the Rebels still had to be dealt with in order to comfortably attack either enemy. Constant clashing ensured that no party remained bored or inactive. Spammed Firesprays proved much more effective than YV-666s against Skiprays, leaving the Empire without a major advantage in Fighter-to-Fighter engagements. The Rebels were ganged up on and killed quickly. Little damage was exchanged until the finale, where all Hell broke loose and left the map a stark scenario, where a Commander only had his remaining ships to rely on.
-Early game: Tie: Both the Rebellion and the Empire played aggressively, pushing the CSA into a corner. No faction came out on top.
-Mid game: Tie: Neither remaining faction gained an upper hand.
-Late game: Tie. Despite a clever last minute counter, and ending with a victory, the CSA was lucky that the Golan II didn't upgrade, both fully healing and granting access to the Lancer-class Frigates, which would have likely ended the CSA's Skipray Blastboats.
Comments:
-I may have underestimated the Invincible-class's strength against Fighters and Transports earlier. If you can get it into position, and use its Missile Barrage ability, the endless stream of concussion missiles will easily destroy any small ships close by. That being said, good luck getting it into position. I advise holding it and dropping it into the field where you need it. Maneuvering will only complicate matters.
-The ending to this match proved how vital Fighter superiority can be. Without it, the CSA would have lost. Since turbolasers are notoriously inaccurate against small ships, and that's all the Empire had end-game, there wasn't much chance for survival against the small ship swarm from the CSA.

Tropical Bob (Galactic Empire) vs. shadowrevan (Alliance to Restore the Republic)
Bothan Frenzy
The Battle: A terrible day for the Empire. Both factions raced for the same upper Mine in the center spread, and engaged quickly. The Empire tested a new ship, its Lambda-class T-4 Shuttle. It proved effective short-term, destroying a few Barloz-class Medium Transports. But the victory fell short. The Rebellion brought more in than the Empire expected, plus a Nebulon-B Frigate, destroying what little the Empire fielded. The Rebellion took control, and took advantage. After shortly building up its Fighter fleet, the Rebels charged. The Empire tried its hand at three Bayonet-class Light Cruisers, and a few GAT-12 Skipray Blastboats, only to be thwarted by a Dreadnaught-class heavy Cruiser. The situation turned more and more dire every second. One Acclamator-class Assault Ship joined in the fight, which bordered the Imperial Space Stations, and then another. The Rebel Dreadnaught was destroyed. But at what cost? Neither Acclamator was able to turn around and make it to safety before the massive Fighter fleet overtook them. Marauder-class Corvettes and Nebulon-B Frigates came from the Imperial flank, bent on taking out the Imperial Freighters, which retreated into the corner, denying comfortable access. The only time the Rebels bided their time was now, to allow its own Freighters, the GR-75 Medium Transports, to lumber slowly in. The Imperials quickly guessed at the Rebel plan: to create a massive self-destruct explosion. Unfortunately, the Imperials guessed at the wrong target, and used its new Transport fleet to attempt to bring the GR-75s down before they reached the Golan II. The Freighters slightly glowed that terrible glow, and took out over half the Imperial Transports. The Rebels hyperspaced in an Independence-class MC120 Star Cruiser, and relentlessly battered the Golan II, while the remaining Rebel forces charged in once again. The Fighter Factory was left to fend for itself. At this point, the Imperial spy ship lost its data stream, as its remote holocam failed to reinitialize its video after having its anti-aliasing setting lowered to improve performance. Based on the hopeless vision presented right before viewing failure, Imperial Intelligence disappointingly tallies the battle as a victory for the Alliance to Restore the Republic.
Summary: The battle went badly for the Imperials from square one. Loss after loss of reinforcements one after another, while the Rebels kept the majority of their forces resulted in overwhelming force. The Rebels took advantage of the opportunity, and pursued its victory. There's not too much to say after that. The Empire hardly presented a threat at any point in the battle.
-Early game: Alliance to Restore the Republic: Early Figher superiority led to complete victory at all points.
-Mid game: Alliance to Restore the Republic: The Rebellion crushed all opposition with ease.
-Late game: Alliance to Restore the Republic: Ouch, Empire. Ouch.
Comments:
-My pride is wounded.

I actually had a recording of that last match, but seeing as it ended with a failed reinitialization of my video, and I spent an hour on what I thought was compressing the video using VirtualDub, but was actually just previewing the output, or watching the video, or something stupid like that. Compression would take a good 4+ hours, and I figured the battle wasn't really entertaining enough to be worth that time. No offense to your first victory shadowrevan, many congratulations on that; it was my side that lacked any and all entertainment value. So I deleted the video. But now that I have video recording working, and slightly understand a little more what I'm doing with VirtualDub, I promise the next match will have a recording to watch.

Also, Xfire now has a beta running for a live broadcast. So if anyone is ever available while we're playing and let me know, they can get a peek of what's happening.

Banshee Malthus also attempted to join in on our newly-found fun, but a CD key issue prevented such festivities. If he solves his problem, we may have a three-way on our hands. And if we manage to get a fourth member, team battles will be possible. I don't remember if a four team map is possible or not, but I'll find out when I get around to learning how to map space, and hopefully implement it for four player FFAs. Also to get better three team maps. The vanilla ones are mostly terribly positioned.

[Phoenix Rising]

-Map note: there is a Mine in a nebula in the center of the map. It's in range of either side's Golan, and is destroyed in short order. If any skirmish mapping gets done on your side, that's definitely a priority to edit.

Okay. I guess it'll just have to be cut then.

I was also thinking of either making turrets a little more durable, or giving Mines some sort of rudimentary defense. A couple turbolasers and regular lasers, perhaps.

Yeah, I'll have to do something along those lines, but it might have to be for v1.3.

I can look into some mapping tutorials, and see if I can come up with anything to show you if I gain any sort of proficiency.

You can try. I find that you either have an eye for that kind of stuff or you don't... and I don't.

About your Race For Ryloth match, interesting note on fighter superiority... I wonder how that will play out now that transports spawn from carriers. I think the Empire would've had a good shot at winning had they bought a v1.2 Imperial (with an endless complement and heavy lasers that out-range transport warheads) instead of a Victory. Except for the Firesprays, it sounded like mostly the same units came into play again. Aside from personal preference, is there any correctable reason (like build time, poor upgrades) why you didn't use other ships? For example, CSA Y-wings should do well against Imperial VSDs and Skiprays aren't a perfect counter to them - their combined quad ions can drop transport shields within seconds. (I think squadrons are 2 pop in v1.1, but they're back to 1 now, so maybe that's it.) Is there ever a use for IPVs or Carracks?

So, it looks like you used different ships in Bothan Frenzy... and lost. Can you win without Skiprays? Are TIEs pointless? Actually, Bayonets should be able to take on a Dreadnaught if you have enough of them - the heavy turbolasers have trouble hitting their narrow profile. What happened there? Is the GR-75 self-destruct too weak against ships? Another pattern seems to be throwing battleships at the stations. Do they ever have hope of repelling those? I could maybe increase the hyperspace denial radius so you can't Thrawn Pincer everything.

Good suggestion on Xfire... I just might have to do that. By the way, there are four-player maps, so if you can manage it, that write-up would be most interesting.

[evilbobthebob]

I've had a couple of LAN games of PR 1.1 against my younger brother (who is incidentally a much better RTS player than I). First match of Rebellion (me) vs CSA (my brother) over Endor, he annihilated me with Victory-Class Star Destroyers. That match started at 0 credits; he built lots of freighters to create an income, while I attempted to bide my time and try for an asteroid mine. No such luck, and he managed to create enough wealth to build four Victory-class, which I could not counter. Any Y-Wings I sent in were taken out quickly by his transports, and my lack of income meant I couldn't upgrade either station to access more effective units. My space stations died against the Victory-Class onslaught very quickly.

Second match, Empire (me) vs Rebellion (my brother) over Coruscant. Here's the .rec file for download: Mediafire. Place it in the FoC user data directory, in the Recordings folder, and it can be accessed in PR from the Load Game option.

The one thing I notice that PR needs is much larger maps. Pathfinding problems with ships such as the MC120 and Bulwark can cause tactics to fail, and their large turning circles on small maps tends to trap them into a single path. Asteroid mines probably need to be more important; I could take 3 or 4 and I could still be out matched by a small fleet of freighters and transports.

The other thing is that the Rebels don't seem to have a counter for VSDs fielded by the CSA. My Y-Wings barely dented the hull, and none of the heavier ship classes available at the Golan-I could do much damage either.

I'm probably going to have another couple of games tomorrow, and because they're LAN, I can save replays of them using the game engine. I can upload those too if you like.

Edited by evilbobthebob, 26 January 2010 - 12:56 AM.

[Tropical Bob]

You can try. I find that you either have an eye for that kind of stuff or you don't... and I don't.

I tried a while back to get into mapping somewhat, but I ran into a problem where my maps would have a huge border, in which no unit could move, that differed from what was displayed in the map editor.

About your Race For Ryloth match, interesting note on fighter superiority... I wonder how that will play out now that transports spawn from carriers. I think the Empire would've had a good shot at winning had they bought a v1.2 Imperial (with an endless complement and heavy lasers that out-range transport warheads) instead of a Victory. Except for the Firesprays, it sounded like mostly the same units came into play again. Aside from personal preference, is there any correctable reason (like build time, poor upgrades) why you didn't use other ships? For example, CSA Y-wings should do well against Imperial VSDs and Skiprays aren't a perfect counter to them - their combined quad ions can drop transport shields within seconds. (I think squadrons are 2 pop in v1.1, but they're back to 1 now, so maybe that's it.) Is there ever a use for IPVs or Carracks?

-My choice of units usually boils down to a mix of personal preference and experience.
-As such, my experience with Y-wings and other Bombers is somewhat slim. So I usually don't use them if I can use something I'm familiar with instead.
-IPVs and Carracks...Eh. I haven't been able to find a niche for them in my style.

So, it looks like you used different ships in Bothan Frenzy... and lost. Can you win without Skiprays? Are TIEs pointless? Actually, Bayonets should be able to take on a Dreadnaught if you have enough of them - the heavy turbolasers have trouble hitting their narrow profile. What happened there? Is the GR-75 self-destruct too weak against ships? Another pattern seems to be throwing battleships at the stations. Do they ever have hope of repelling those? I could maybe increase the hyperspace denial radius so you can't Thrawn Pincer everything.

-Sure, I bet it is possible to win without Skiprays, but the problem is learning the mechanics of another unit to the extent that I know the Skiprays.
-The Bayonets might have done good, but the problem was that shadowrevan had way too many Fighters that could dish out a lot.
-I'd say somewhat that the GR-75 self-destruct is too weak against ships. Rather strong against Fighters and Transports though.
-When a Dreadnaught enters the field near the Space Stations, it's endgame for them. Dreadnaughts have too much shielding and hull to be taken out before the stations are. At least, for the most part. The MC120 is probably the least effective at taking out the stations, since it doesn't have as much heavy weaponry as its cousins.
-The radius could be increased, but as far as I've played, it seems fine as it is to me.

Good suggestion on Xfire... I just might have to do that. By the way, there are four-player maps, so if you can manage it, that write-up would be most interesting.

I don't think you actually need an Xfire account to view the live broadcast. I also don't know how well it will turn out. I've never tried broadcasting before, and my connection gets iffy sometimes (Supposed to have 10Mbp/s, but I think it goes way under that a lot), so it could skip or not work entirely. We'll see if I actually get a chance to try it.

The one thing I notice that PR needs is much larger maps. Pathfinding problems with ships such as the MC120 and Bulwark can cause tactics to fail, and their large turning circles on small maps tends to trap them into a single path. Asteroid mines probably need to be more important; I could take 3 or 4 and I could still be out matched by a small fleet of freighters and transports.

That's another reason I'm going to attempt my hand at mapping.

The other thing is that the Rebels don't seem to have a counter for VSDs fielded by the CSA. My Y-Wings barely dented the hull, and none of the heavier ship classes available at the Golan-I could do much damage either.

Dreadnaughts should be able to take them on two or three on one. You might try keeping them out of the concussion missile range of the Victorys, and use the heavy turbolasers to the max advantage you can. As for Y-wings, just try to keep them covered with Fighters and/or Transports, and get at least five or so squadrons. Victorys can take quite a beating, and are somewhat capable at taking out Fighter squadrons, but enough Bombers, and they should be cake. Also, any Transports with proton torpedoes or concussion missiles will eventually destroy them.

Edited by Tropical Bob, 26 January 2010 - 01:12 AM.

[Phoenix Rising]

I've had a couple of LAN games of PR 1.1 against my younger brother (who is incidentally a much better RTS player than I).

What's your assessment of the learning curve for PR? I imagine not so good because I'm always modding instead of writing documentation.

The one thing I notice that PR needs is much larger maps.

I'd love to hire a veteran mapper to serve as our lead. With someone to coalesce around, I think we could scrape together a team and get something serious accomplished. If you're ever not busy with UEAW...

Asteroid mines probably need to be more important; I could take 3 or 4 and I could still be out matched by a small fleet of freighters and transports.

Income from units is getting nerfed and the station income will be increased to compensate. Even with no map control, you should be able to put up some fight, which isn't really the case now.

The other thing is that the Rebels don't seem to have a counter for VSDs fielded by the CSA.

Okay, I'll look at that. Maybe I'll swap it with the Invincible on the tech tree.

I'm probably going to have another couple of games tomorrow, and because they're LAN, I can save replays of them using the game engine. I can upload those too if you like.

That would be helpful. I take it you're running straight v1.1?

I tried a while back to get into mapping somewhat, but I ran into a problem where my maps would have a huge border, in which no unit could move, that differed from what was displayed in the map editor.

The borders as such are in Properties, or something to that effect. 400 seems to be the standard.

-My choice of units usually boils down to a mix of personal preference and experience.

That's fair. We probably just need more data from other players then.

-When a Dreadnaught enters the field near the Space Stations, it's endgame for them. Dreadnaughts have too much shielding and hull to be taken out before the stations are.

That would be the point of increasing the radius, so you could at least mount a defense before their guns get into range.

Victorys can take quite a beating, and are somewhat capable at taking out Fighter squadrons, but enough Bombers, and they should be cake.

Really? Due to the projectile spam, or what? That can be fixed, of course.

[evilbobthebob]

The learning curve is quite steep, especially in GC. Skirmish isn't so bad; but a good example is that I had no idea transports and freighters provided income in skirmish games until I read this thread. And until my brother sent a wave of GR-75s at me I didn't know they had a self destruct ability One thing I do feel with PR is that implementing some form of tactics has a much better chance of succeeding than most RTS games. For example, there is no way I would have attempted the late-game raid in the Coruscant battle in vanilla.

Yes, we're running completely vanilla 1.1.1 after a lot of hell trying to find out why version mismatches occurred (in the end it was me putting the map editor into the PR folder that was the problem).

I should probably have tried to use Dreadnaughts against his VSDs, but when the Victory is right next to your station and your income has been mostly cut off, there's not much you can do. I think I'm going to get a lot of practice against the AI in today.

Important thing to note about map borders: the map editor has a nice little bug that means when you change the map size the borders stay in their original position, so you have to load the properties dialogue box up again and adjust the values.


Here are the match recordings from today: Mediafire

Edited by evilbobthebob, 26 January 2010 - 06:17 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

The learning curve is quite steep, especially in GC.

Any suggestions on that? I was planning to add short descriptive tooltips to the units. Did you guys do anything specific with UEAW?

Yes, we're running completely vanilla 1.1.1 after a lot of hell trying to find out why version mismatches occurred (in the end it was me putting the map editor into the PR folder that was the problem).

They didn't make it very friendly for multiplayer, unfortunately .

Important thing to note about map borders: the map editor has a nice little bug that means when you change the map size the borders stay in their original position, so you have to load the properties dialogue box up again and adjust the values.

Right, see I know nothing about the nuances of mapping.

[evilbobthebob]

Short descriptive tooltips are best. The current long list of statistics is almost impossible to read in the heat of battle. It would be easy enough to have generic descriptions for each unit, then add short upgrade summaries for their later versions e.g. "Mark II includes more powerful turbolaser batteries". Seeing as you have all those statistic written up, a table of them, included with the mod, would probably be the best use.

[Piet-Tia]

Short descriptive tooltips are best. The current long list of statistics is almost impossible to read in the heat of battle.

Well, I might not be the most active member here but I have to voice my disagreement with that statement.

For me personally the detailed characteristics off all the ships being shown in the tooltips is one of the best features of PR, one I always miss when playing other mods. I obviously don't read these stats every time but when I need anti-capital ships in skirmish I just compare turbos and shield strength of my available ships and warp in the most suited. Against fighters I look mainly at the laser cannons, in GC I often sort and group ships by hyperdrives etc. Thanks to the tooltips I get the required information right away. Looking all those things up in a table would take far longer.

But that's just me. I even think that the upgrade descriptions ("has better complement and shielding") could be more specific.

Edited by Piet-Tia, 27 January 2010 - 02:01 AM.

[Phoenix Rising]

Short descriptive tooltips are best. The current long list of statistics is almost impossible to read in the heat of battle.

Well, I might not be the most active member here but I have to voice my disagreement with that statement.

Don't worry; that's not going anywhere - I can't stand RTS games that don't expose enough of the mechanic through the interface. The descriptions would be in addition to the stats.

[Tropical Bob]

The learning curve is quite steep, especially in GC. Skirmish isn't so bad; but a good example is that I had no idea transports and freighters provided income in skirmish games until I read this thread.

One thing I might suggest to PR about this bit is to either design a little "tutorial" GC, or, at some point, get around to editing the little text tooltips that pop up from the droid so that they pertain to the mod. I don't think I've seen anything in the XMLs about having a custom text file or anything specific to a campaign, but if it exists, that would help for a tutorial GC as well.

I should probably have tried to use Dreadnaughts against his VSDs, but when the Victory is right next to your station and your income has been mostly cut off, there's not much you can do. I think I'm going to get a lot of practice against the AI in today.

True. And that's where knowledge of Freighters providing income really helps. My last match against shadowrevan had like 5 hero capitals, including Ackbar's Home One, at my Golan, and I was still able to build a lot of stuff.

Important thing to note about map borders: the map editor has a nice little bug that means when you change the map size the borders stay in their original position, so you have to load the properties dialogue box up again and adjust the values.

Ah. That might certainly well have been my problem.

Here are the match recordings from today: Mediafire

Hmmm...I'm having a lot of silly non-existent problems compressing my video recording (VirtualDub can't save AVI files onto a FAT32 drive or something?). Maybe I should just upload my replays too.

Short descriptive tooltips are best. The current long list of statistics is almost impossible to read in the heat of battle. It would be easy enough to have generic descriptions for each unit, then add short upgrade summaries for their later versions e.g. "Mark II includes more powerful turbolaser batteries". Seeing as you have all those statistic written up, a table of them, included with the mod, would probably be the best use.

I disagree wholeheartedly. One of the main things that makes PR stand out is the fact that it details the complement of the ship so well. And it's quite easy to read the tooltip mid-battle. I'd rather see the whole complement, rather than "The Imperial Star Destroyer has turbolasers and ion cannons." Well, so do 50 other ships.

But that's just me. I even think that the upgrade descriptions ("has better complement and shielding") could be more specific.

I've been thinking the same thing lately, as well.

Edited by Tropical Bob, 27 January 2010 - 10:45 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

But that's just me. I even think that the upgrade descriptions ("has better complement and shielding") could be more specific.

I've been thinking the same thing lately, as well.

The upgrades were in turmoil for most of the development on v1.1; I just need to decide which are now finalized and to redo the ones that need tweaking. Otherwise, that can be done. In some cases though, I'm holding out for new models before touching the design, rigging, and coding with existing ones and, well... you understand how the upgrade strings get pushed to the back burner.

[evilbobthebob]

Looks like I'm out voted on the description front.

Tropical and shadow, what GMT times would you two be available for a 2v2 battle with myself and my brother? I know you're finding it difficult to find other players, and although my internet connection isn't the best, it's probably good enough. My brother isn't available as often as me, so if the time you choose is difficult for him, we can still probably have a 1v1v1 game. (Preferably without the CSA. One thing I've learned from these games is that the CSA is over powered. Even I can win using them.)

[shadowrevan]

What's your assessment of the learning curve for PR? I imagine not so good because I'm always modding instead of writing documentation.

The learning curve is like a cliff. My first GC game, took me until week 70 to win a space battle. I chose the wrong planets to attack, and every where I went there were capital ships. Now I know that is not the case. I still don't know the use for the space tug.

One thing I might suggest to PR about this bit is to either design a little "tutorial" GC, or, at some point, get around to editing the little text tooltips that pop up from the droid so that they pertain to the mod

That would be a massive help.

QUOTE (Piet-Tia @ Jan 26 2010, 08:26 PM) *
QUOTE (evilbobthebob @ Jan 26 2010, 11:57 PM) *
Short descriptive tooltips are best. The current long list of statistics is almost impossible to read in the heat of battle.

Well, I might not be the most active member here but I have to voice my disagreement with that statement.

Don't worry; that's not going anywhere - I can't stand RTS games that don't expose enough of the mechanic through the interface. The descriptions would be in addition to the stats.

I never use the long description. But we are getting in to personal preferences. Now if I had my choice, in the description would be special things about the unit. E.g. on a freighter mention that having them will increase income.

One thing that I noticed with out most recent match with Tropical Bob, is that the y wing is very underpowered. A squadron of y wings is no where as good as a skipray. There is just no comparison. Most TIE units are completely out classes as well, with exception to the later ones like the defender.

Tropical and shadow, what GMT times would you two be available for a 2v2 battle with myself and my brother? I know you're finding it difficult to find other players, and although my internet connection isn't the best, it's probably good enough. My brother isn't available as often as me, so if the time you choose is difficult for him, we can still probably have a 1v1v1 game. (Preferably without the CSA. One thing I've learned from these games is that the CSA is over powered. Even I can win using them.)

It helps that Bob and I are in the same time zone. (GMT-6). On the weekend we played roughly 12 to 4.. so that would be 6am-10am your time. On Monday we played form 7pm to 8:30 pm, so 1am to 2:30am your time.