29 replies to this topic

[Prince of the Dark Forest]

I don't want to start a whole new topic for this... But how about changing the model of the beasts in the Battlewagon model with a pony?

I know dwarves rode ponies (as opposed to horses), but there is no indication in the lore of anyone apart from Mordor using the Great Beasts. I know the beasts themselves may have been Mumakil in the books, but our friend PJ made them into unique animals in the movies.

[Nazgûl]

However, Dale Cavalry could be kept as a summon in case of emergencies. Besides I clearly remember hearing Nazgul say several times he wants Dale to be limited, and not a minifaction. Giving them build-able Cavalry would require some stable structure. I am sure that is how Dwarves wanted Cavalry help only when it was necessary in those tough times, which exactly fits a summon.

Like TT said, Mordor cas no cavalry (except 9 Naguls on steeds), cause... well they just didn't have any! Same with Erebor (dwarves) - they were reluctant to ride any kind of beast, let alone horses. I know of the ponys though... but no - we won't have any cavalry with dwarven riders. Dale however... Dale is meant as the support faction coming to Erebor's aid, just like Umbar does for Mordor, and Dunland for Isengars etc... They are not spam units, nor are they mini factions - they're support. Meaning they will only have ONY buildable unit in their host's faction. So - to solvet his matter nicely, and to give more variety to dwarven "spells" we could indeed ad them as SUMMONS Just like the Rohirrim for Gondor...

For changing beasts into ponys - sure, I'd like that. But, I don't think it's possible since changing the model would make the ponys move like the beasts. Maybe it's solvable by combining model skeletons (anims) from different models, but not at this stage though. I'll make a note of it though, as I've thought about it before and forgotten about it again IF we could solve it, we could move the beasts into Mordor...

[Lauri]

Mordor had wargs.. Gothmog used one, and there's also some seen during the battle for Minas Tirith. Not to many warg riders to be seen though, so might not be super common
And the Mouth of Sauron used a horse.

How tough and strong are ponies, really? I know they can carry alot, but wouldn't they just be scared shitless in combat?

[Nazgûl]

A pony has probably the same intellect and stamina as a horse - it's just smaller. They do move somewhat fast too, and not like donkeys that "trip" along the way. Regardless I don't think dwarves should have any riding cavalry other than the wagons. If possible, they could use ponys, but I think you as a modeler would agree it would be tedious work, for such a small change? =)

[Lauri]

No really.. Use horses, increase the size of dwarves, then rig it and export.
Then use Scale in the code.. It's what I did for the pony riding hobbits in Scouring of the Shire

And I never wanted dwarven pony riders though, I was simply referring to the battlewagon\ or whatever.. that would at any rate be tedious work

[double 0 b]

Just a thought :
If you do decide to eventually ditch the "beasts" or whatever they are that pull the battlewagons and replace them with ponies, maybe you could scale them and add them to the Grond ? Because I do remember them pulling it in the movie (only on screen for a brief moment)
And if so you could maybe remove the six standard trolls and add slots to the Grond, so you could actually tell your Mountain Trolls to use it once it has been dragged to the enemies fortress ?

[Lauri]

I won't be doing any of that at any rate

It's a lot of work, because we have to animate it, and that will take longer than it will take for Nazgul to learn LUA and modeling

[Adamin]

Also Gronds beasts and the battlewagon beasts are actually two different animals. ^^

The giant beasts of Grond were somewhat rhino-like in the movies. While the beasts of the dwarven battlewagon are supposed to be some kind of mountain yak, whatever this is (I read it somewhere in an official source).

[double 0 b]

Yeah, looking back it is fair amount of work to do for a thing which works perfectly well already !
Well I'm just here to throw out any ideas that come to mind !
Oh and I didn't know that they were different animals I could of sworn they were the same. Oh well, now I have an excuse to watch RotK again !

[Nazgûl]

I also thought they were the same, but smaller... Baby beasts?

But yeah, this is too much work for an animator, and I might not even like the result, since I want all things in SEE to match a certain standard (set by all awesome stuff we've gotten and have made so far).