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[Námo]

THE BLUE PARROT

The place for all suspect subjects and strange stories from Middle-earth.

Most respectable forums have a topic (or even a whole subforum) for various kind of drivel - this is the one for this forum. It is complementary to "The Prancing Pony" and as such named after another inn; like the stories that might be told here, the name is fiction:

excerpts from the personal diary of the Dark Lord Sauron:

September 30 3018 TA:

Disturbing news from the North: Black Riders frequenting inns, engaging in fistfights, compensations soaring - what was the Witch-king's business in the Prancing Pony, anyway?

January 15, 3019 TA:

There was a raid in Moria. Moggie the Bullfrog has been found guilty of harassment and sent into the Void. What a pity: as a free holder he was unsurpassed, always had the best material available in the Misty Mountains. This is no more like it was in the Good Elder Days when you could find a proper night-club at any corner of Arda Flat. Now there is, I think, only one more left, The Blue Parrot, run by two wise-guys from Overseas. Somewhere in Rhún that is.

source: Sauron's Diary

Although this then is the place for all sort of suspicious issues, that does not necessary mean, that the material served here should be of poor quality ... according to Sauron's info on The Blue Parrot: "somewhere in Rhún that is" ... that would be close to the best winegrowers of Middle-earth, those of Dorwinion, cf. this conversation between a Nazgûl and his lieutenant:

excerpt from a private dialog between a nazgûl and an orc:

KHAMÛL: ... No one can drink a Ringf... (ooops)... a Ringfrith under the table. I am in full control of myselfff... (Burp).
GRISHNÁKH: Come on, Khamûl, here's another pint.
KHAMÛL: Zanks. You're a real pal, Grishy. That Dormi... that Doriwim... That Dorwinion vintage is really the meanest one far around. (Burp.)

source: Last night at Dushgoi (part 1)

Cheers, Námo

Edited by Námo, 26 January 2011 - 09:44 AM.
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[Námo]

[... as women usually are a good subject to start a conversation on a pub ... well, here we go ...]

What about the Orcwives? Are there no female Orcs at all? ...

This stunning record leaves no doubt about the Orcish family life; it's from an usually reliable source (though I haven't found the dialog in Tolkien's own writings yet):

Time: March 9, 3019 TA. Very late evening.

MRS. GORBAG: Ah, here ya are! What have ya in ya puny brain again, eh? Didn't I tell ya ya come and wipe da filthy staircase? Me, I am working all day cleaning dat idiotic Tower from top floor to bottom floor and dat man has nothing in his mind than to hang around with his brainless Nazgûl pals again!

GORBAG: Sorry, Darling, but 'twas important. We haff plans, great plans. Burn that Minas over there a little and make a big mess all over the Pelennor, lots of fun, ya know. I couldn't stay aside when...

MRS. GORBAG: Nag nag nag! Out dat Orc would go and invade a little, eh? And have a nice stop at each inn between the Cirith and Belfalas meanwhile? Now dat he would like, yes! I told ya ya work today, and if ya don't listen I tell ya one thing and one time only: ya will see no pub from inside for the rest of the month!

GORBAG: But Daaaaaarling! Everyone is going, even the Morgul Lord is going, gonna be a heck of a celebrity down there, and I will be no good Orc if I don't drink my... uh, kill my share of Whiteskins.

MRS. GORBAG: So all are going, eh? And what do ya haff in ya mind again, eh? Ya go and amuse yaselves, and we gals will do all the household alone again, or what? Like it was when ya had no other business than to raid dat Ithilien! Four weeks ya were out and I was skinning my knees on these bloody stairs. Curse them Tarks - forgetting the elevators when they built dat Tower! And all the heavy food we haff to buy and carry home. But I tell ya, no way, man. Ya will not go for fun at the Pelennor! Ya go up to the Tower of Cirith Ungol and buy stuff. We are almost outa food again, and when ya're all out who will do the carrying then? Not me for certain! Here, take dat shopping list and dare ya to forget anything of what's written on!

GORBAG: But Daaaaarling, that is so much! All that stuff is sooo heavy! What? Ten pounds pork a la Bálrog, half a Winged Beast from the grill, three pickled dragon tails, and salted shark from the Núrn? Are ya crazy? Ya know what a load that is on a little Orc's back? I'm not an Uruk, ya know...

MRS. GORBAG: Never mind! Then ya will take a couple of ya buddies and they will help ya carry. Ya go now! And don't get any idea to try again and drink that fellow Shagrat under the table! I can still hear ya squeaking when ya had had that headache last time from all the Dorwinion wine. Ya Orc guys always think ya die when ya have little bit of pain! Read my lips: no unnecessary stops! Haff ya understood that?

GORBAG: Yes, Darling. (I really shouldn't have mated a gal with Angmar blood in her veins.)

MRS. GORBAG: And I don't wanna hear any nagging of ya!

GORBAG: Yes, Darling.

MRS. GORBAG: Now ya take ya buddies and go up the pass. And do dat quick!

GORBAG: Just a tiny pint of beer before...?

MRS. GORBAG: GET OUT OF HERE NOW ! ! ! ! !

And that is why Orcs behave the way they do when they are abroad ...

Note: This record was first published in rec.art.sbooks.tolkien at December 25, 1995.

Source:

The Files of Mordor's Secret Service ["The Ears of Sauron"]

Edited by Námo, 26 January 2011 - 10:06 AM.
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[Rob38]

Females seem to be a scarce group in Middle Earth.

[Námo]

I did browse the index of various books by Tolkien, and only found this on "women":

from: Letters of Tolkien #165 [on a review of LotR in New York Times Book Review by columnist Harvey Breit:
...
The only criticism that annoyed me was one that 'it contained no religion' (and 'no Women', but that does not matter, and its not true anyway).

So, when Tolkien says so, and orcs are in fact corrupted men (ehrm ... guess that should be humans), let's try to hunt down some orc-women. As Sauron was by and large responsible for this 'corruption', he ought to know:

[entry in diary:]

I am not going to watch palantir any longer ... Minas Tirith has failed completely and broadcasts just a modernistic still image, and Orthanc seems to have been taken over by some dissidents: It repeats monarchistic propaganda all day long.

I much preferred Sharkû's Orc&Man porns.

Maybe not the most reliable source, but it's in line with this:

Thus Saruman found the ground well-prepared when he started to seek for recruits and for victims of his Man/Orc cross-breeding programme. The Dunlendings were readily ensnared by his cunning ...

I know the last one IS a reliable one, but haven't been able to find the exact quote yet ... I'll post it when I do.

Edited by Námo, 15 February 2011 - 08:16 PM.

[Námo]

I seems that nobody has any interest in the subject of orcwomen, so let's change the conversation to another issue:


The building of Barad-dur

In the Tale of Years for the Second Age (Return of the King p. 364 hardback), it states the following:

"c. 1000 Sauron ... chooses Mordor as a land to make into a stronghold. He begins the building of Barad-dur.
. . .
"c. 1600 Sauron forges the One Ring in Orodruin. He completes the Barad-dur. Celebrimbor perceives the designs of Sauron ..."

What makes this curious is the clear statement given by Elrond about the Dark Tower's construction, as he described the cleaning-up after the Battle of the Last Alliance (Fellowship of the Ring p. 257 hardback):

"The Dark Tower was broken, but its foundations were not removed; for they were made with the power of the Ring ..."

Now since the Ring wasn't forged until SA 1600, this means that Sauron spent approximately six hundred years building the Barad-dur ... before he had built the foundation! Moreover, once the foundation was finally laid, the Barad-dur was completed almost immediately!

... How do we explain this? How can we explain how Sauron - a Maia of Aule, no less - could spend six hundred years building a Tower, and yet build the foundation last?

I have a possible answer - one clearly in character for Sauron, the master of cruelty and deceit:

Pre-fabricated modular housing.

Sauron developed the black and heinous art of building mobile homes.

... It's worth observing that, once Sauron had the foundations set up, he could also rebuild the Barad-dur with incredible speed. The Tower was "levelled to the ground" at the end of the Second Age (Silmarillion p. 294 hardback); yet, according to the Tale of Years, Sauron began rebuilding the Barad-dur in TA 2951 - and it was evidently finished by the time of the War of the Ring (TA 3018), only some 67 years later! More evidence in favor of the Barad-dur being a prefab, don't you think?

Perhaps the most convincing evidence, however, comes from none other than the Mouth of Sauron (Return of the King p. 166 hardback) when he implies that just having to live in the Barad-dur constitutes an unimaginable torture. It's also worth noting that, on the same page, he notes that he himself has plans to move to Isengard at the first available opportunity.

Doubtless there are many possible explanations; I'm looking forward to hearing what others may suggest.

(From a rec.arts.books.tolkien posting dated 2 June 1996.)

[Námo]

I have another question, Why didn't Sauron re-use the rings that he took back from the Nazgul so he could create another 9 Nazgul?

Well, take your pick ...

The Circus of Sauron:

From a rec.arts.books.tolkien posting by Alan Sauer, dated 22 March 1996.

Another poster in rec.arts.books.tolkien thought, erroneously, that Alan Sauer had claimed there were more than nine Ringwraiths. Mr. Sauer corrected the understanding, but then added this intriguing document to his post.

Of course, one cannot discount MacThornbush's contention, in Sauron: The Circus Years:

"It has, of course, never been successfully proven that the references to 'The Nine' did not actually refer to 'The Nine Companies,' a group of specially trained Black Numenorean commandos; this would necessitate that Sauron be much busier under Orodruin than was previously speculated, but between the initial assays into the craft of Ring-making (c. 1500 S.A.) and the forging of the One (c. 1600 S.A.) lies an entire century, certainly enough time for the forging of however many Rings were needed. While it is certain that the Dark Lord spent much of this time touring Middle-Earth as a lion-tamer (cf. Chapter One: 'Ringling Brothers: Just a Name?') the frequent stops in Mordor, initially thought to be tax writeoffs for the Ringlings - 'charity shows for the underprivileged minorities' (Undertow, One Form to Rule Them All, p. 586) - take on an altogether new and sinister meaning."

The Twenty-Seven Nazgul:

From a rec.arts.books.tolkien posting dated 25 May 1996.

Alan Sauer's documentation about the Nine Companies of Ringwraiths [see previous theory] clears up a number of anomalies sprinkled through CJRT's reprints of JRRT's works.

For starters, it explains the altered passages in Return of the Shadow (pp. 257-259) where Gandalf refers to the "twenty-seven rings of the Nazgul" (emphasis mine), a number evidently amended to eighteen after the first draft of Frodo's flight to the ford (Treason of Isengard pp. 61-2). For those unfamiliar with it, JRRT tried eight times to get Frodo across the ford and failed bitterly every time. "I have got the hero into such a fix that not even an author will be able to extricate him without labour and difficulty," he wrote to Stanley Unwin at the time.

A later solution to the still-excessive number of Ringwraiths is reflected in a pair of isolated passages in Unfinished Tales (pp. 347-8 hardback). In these, JRRT says that "the Enemy originally had sent half the Nazgul to the East, to an Easterling city called 'Bakensh', evidently unsure after his interview with Gollum whether he was seeking a person named Baggins in a place called Shire or a person named Shire in a place called Baggins". This accounts for the very strange manuscript in the early paperback editions of The Tolkien Reader (up to Ballantine's eighth printing, March 1969), called "The Ballad of Ahmed Shaire" which deals with the pursuit and eventual downfall of an Arabic swordsman who was tracked and killed by "nine horsemen of night"(!).

"'Go back!' Shaire's voice challenged bold.
'I have it not, your Ring of gold!
Go back to dark lands of the West!
The failure of your cursed quest
And anger of your precious Lord
Will not compare to what my sword
And will of iron may do to thee.
I urge you, evil Riders, flee!'
A chilling voice replied in scorn.
'Thou dare defy us, thou baseborn?
Your squeaky voice doth make us laugh.
As we should fear your puny wrath
Or hesitate before your blade!
If thou of sterner stuff were made
Then thou our wills you would command.
But even now I see your hand
Would quake before it held the Ring.
Tell us where you have hid this thing,
And maybe we shall let you live.
Perhaps the Eye will yet forgive!
But hesitate, defy again,
And here with other mortal Men
Shaire will never tarry more!'
And down on him the Rider bore..."

(From "The Ballad of Ahmed Shaire", 251st stanza.)

Edited by Námo, 15 February 2011 - 10:12 PM.
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[Námo]

The Truth about Tom Bombadil:

From a rec.arts.books.tolkien posting dated 3 May 1996.

At last, the mystery of Tom Bombadil's identity has been solved.

Ready?

Tom Bombadil and the Witch-king of Angmar are the same person.

1. We never hear of Tom at all during the whole of the First Age. The Nine Rings aren't forged until the Second Age. QED.

2. You never see the two of them together.

3. In the first part of Fellowship of the Ring, the Nazgul are sent to the Shire to look for the wandering Baggins. Interestingly, Tom says to Frodo at the dinner-table: "...I was waiting for you. We heard news of you, and learned that you were wandering ... But Tom had an errand there, that he dared not hinder" (Fellowship p.137 hardback, emphasis mine: note the fear Tom has of his master, Sauron!).

4. In Tom's questioning of the Hobbits, JRRT notes that "there was a glint in his eyes when he heard of the Riders." (Fellowship p. 144) I think he was concerned that his double-life might have been noticed. Interestingly, Tom immediately changes the subject of conversation!
Furthermore, the One Ring had no effect on Tom - which seems consistent with Tolkien's observations about how the Nazgul would have handled the same priceless object (Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, #246): "They were ... in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the Ring."

5. It's also interesting to note that Tom could see Frodo clearly while Frodo was wearing the Ring (Fellowship p. 144 hardback) - just as the Witch-king could see Frodo clearly while he was wearing the Ring at Weathertop! (Fellowship p. 208 hardback).

6. Perhaps most damning, however, is the incident with the Barrow-wights (Fellowship pp. 151-155), where Tom - with nothing more than a few simple words (p. 154) - commands the Barrow-wight to leave. And it does, without argument. Why would the Wight be so completely under Tom's control? Because in his alternate guise as the Witch-king of Angmar, Tom ordered the Wight to inhabit the barrow in the first place! Turning to Return of the King, Appendix A, p. 321, "evil spirits out of Angmar ... entered into the deserted mounds and dwelt there." Obviously the Witch-king was reponsible for sending the wights there; just as obviously, the Witch-king (disguised as Tom) would be capable of ordering them to leave!
(This is related to another passage, which has since been brought to my attention. On Fellowship page 158 hardback, Tom is guiding the Hobbits back towards the Road when he gazes towards the borders of Cardolan. "Tom said that it had once been the boundary of a kingdom, but a very long time ago. He seemed to remember something sad about it, and would not say much." Since Tom, as the Witch-king, was the one who destroyed the kingdom of Cardolan, it's little wonder that he wouldn't say much about his involvement. Perhaps his remembering "something sad" reveals some remorse at being the instrument of Cardolan's destruction ...?)

... Yep: I think we have an airtight case here.

... It's worth noting that, after the Witch-king was dead, Gandalf said he was "going to have a long talk with Bombadil" (Return of the King, p. 275). Curiously, he never tells anyone about the meeting later ... and he's right there at the Grey Havens at the end of the book, undelayed it seems by long conversation. I think we can therefore theorize that Gandalf made it to the Old Forest, but that Tom (once the so-called "Witch-king" had died) was nowhere to be found!

... Of course, all this brings up the curiosity of motive. What would make the Witch-King of Angmar sport such a double identity? I suppose that the Witch-king, once of proud Numenorean ancestry, felt trapped by the guise of evil which Sauron had tricked him into, and in the fullness of time forged this alternate identity for himself so that he could occasionally feel happy, helpful, noble, and more at one with himself and his lineage. The situation is perhaps analagous to a crossdresser who, feeling trapped in a man's body, would occasionally assume the identity of a woman. It therefore makes sense that the Witch-king's other identity would be so peculiarly enigmatic, and perhaps sheds light on JRRT's observation in Letters #144: "And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)."

... Who else would be aware of Tom's double-life, I wonder? Since Tom repeatedly claims to have been around "before the river and the trees", and indeed even claims to be older than the Ents (Fellowship p. 142), surely the eldest of the Elves would know he was lying. Elrond plays along with Tom in public, being kind enough not to reveal his secret, but also seems to know that Tom and the Witch-king are one and the same; hence his refusal to give the Ring to Tom for safekeeping (Fellowship p. 278-9): "Power to defy the Enemy is not in him."

Edited by Námo, 14 February 2011 - 06:34 PM.

[clank234]

And let me guess, Khamul is Goldberry

[Námo]

... Khamul is Goldberry ...

As it looks like you're becoming one of the regular customers here, you are obliged to tell a tale ... so, what's your story on Khamul and Goldberry? Please share with all of us.

P.S. If I like your narrative, you can have a FREE_BEER_UPGRADE on me.

[clank234]

But Khamul wears clothing right? So who knows what he looks like in normal from, Goldberry. They chose a dark wooded area to stay in just like Mirkwood and built a fortress there just like Dol Guldor but less evil and much smaller.
That's all I have as there isn't too much I can say about the mysterys of GoldBerry.
And he/she also kept on checking Frodo out And I'm not great at narrative as you may see

Edit: There we go

Edited by clank234, 15 February 2011 - 12:05 PM.

[Námo]

Ooh, you just got yourself 'upgraded' to regular customer of this dubious place; I hope the hangover will not be too bad.

You'll be welcome back, when you have become sober again.

[clank234]

In one post you said that I was a 'regular customer', so how can I be upgraded to it if I am already one

[Námo]

... it looks like you're becoming one of the regular customers here ...

Spamming is allowed in this topic, and in this topic only in the lore forum.

As the keeper of this inn would like to see some more customers around (there have been too quiet for a long time), he recommends spamming of high quality, to help improving the reputation of this place.

[Unknown]

What you said about the WitchKing and Tom Bombadil is very intreeging and it has got me thinking. But wouldn't some people (such as Elrond or Gandalf) sense this?

[Mathijs]

It was a joke.

[Unknown]

I know that Matias But what Namo said is interesting

[Námo]

I just quoted ...

From a rec.arts.books.tolkien posting dated 3 May 1996.

[...]

... because some 'crackpot' theories can be interesting the way they give a completely skewed point of view on certain subjects, and thus makes your mind wander freely, on paths it otherwise would not follow.

Apart from that, but not unimportant, I don't want to be so serious about lore, that I can't make such jokes .

However, take heed: not all of the stuff served here are jokes only ... it's mostly some sort of cocktail, so you still got to think yourself, and make your own judgment.

[Námo]

Thus Saruman found the ground well-prepared when he started to seek for recruits and for victims of his Man/Orc cross-breeding programme. The Dunlendings were readily ensnared by his cunning ...

I know the last one IS a reliable one, but haven't been able to find the exact quote yet ... I'll post it when I do.

I found it, see this post!