39 replies to this topic

[Andre27]

God provides safety, but also confronts you.
It takes a lot to let go. I've been raised in Church, but at the age of 16-17 i got serious doubts. I kind of thought like you, being logical, trying to explain/proof God or the absence there-off.
Dispite all my efforts to deny God, i've been convinced that God is real.
I cannot prove to you that God exists, but i can pray to you may come to know him.

[Natus]

God is a safety blanket, something that was once a guiding light for early humanity. Now it has become a noose. We have become puppets of our own ideas of "God". As far as i beleive, there is only one god. Us. We destroy, create, and create others in our ever imperfect image. We are but puppets of ourselves in essence, merely pawns in a game we play. Look at us. We kill in the name of God, in the name of religeon... religeon is but a shroud covering humanity, something holding us to our old bindings. Humanity cannot survive if religeon and the concept of God is realised to be a guide for our first faltering steps in life. We strive to fight for freedom, for justice... never realising, that the fighting is taking us further from both those ideals. Humans are the epitimy of hypocrisy. We claim to be civilised, in actuality, we are barbarians, who are forsaken to lead a never ending life of turmiol and destruction. This pains me to say, but its true. I am ashamed of being human. My heritage is bathed in blood. So forgive my pessimism on the idea of god... but i am sure that those who have suffered in this life, and those who have seen others suffer understand my stance.

[Ash]

w00t! Revived!

A very interesting topic I sparked up here, I see. I just had to come and give it my own two penneth.


Religion is founded upon its own way of trying to make us not do the things that we are inherently pushed to do. Take the 10 commandments. These are 10 things that are what I'd classify as Human Nature. Except Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery. That's classed as Sex Drive.

As Des0 said, religion is a form of control. A way of getting people to adhere to certain things, and a way of making them content with the way society treats them. I live in a crime-ridden town, crumbling apart around me and with drug addictions soaring through the roof (children's playparks are littered with hypos). Religion tells me that I must put up with this in order to acheive something better after my death.

But how do the people who started the Religion know that to be true? What if the good life I've led is all for nothing? Then these people would have lied to me.
I've decided to give up questioning whether God exists or not. from now on, I shall simply say 'I don't know.' Because simply I don't. There are a few things I'd like to share.

let's say for a moment that God does exist.

"God is a creator."
I created a garden by sowing some seeds. Does that make me God of that
garden, and all the plants within it?

"God is everything."
Therefore, to an extent, I am God.

"God is Father."
So I should worship my dad (note to all: I hate my dad)? This ties in with the above statement, yet it seems to me to show some fallibility in the concept of "God".

As said, we're assuming God does exist. The above three were all rhetorical questions designed to get the reader thinking.
Now here is my actual question:

What is "God"?

[Clazzy]

Despite the fact that this is an old topic I feel like adding something.
The very first religions were all created about 2-5,000 years ago, when people were relatively nomadic and science was unknown. Anything which could not be explained, e.g. earthquakes, lightning, etc. was belived to be a heavenly act of a super being (God). Basically, God was the easy answer to everything. It's hard for people, even now, to realise that they are absolutely worthless. In the grand scheme of things they are nothing, the equivalent of a tiny bacterium compared to a planet. People don't like that idea instinctively as they'd rather have a clear-cut answer. If you have a God, you have a purpose for being here and the chance to live on forever in an afterlife.
Nowadays, we are based mostly around science, which gives theories that basically denounce religion, and to some extent, they are probably right. While it is inconceiveable to envision absolutely nothing, the first thing you'd think of is probably: What colour is it? Our minds can't comprehend it. The idea of a God bringing us into existance just makes it easier, which is why ancient civilisations created religion. It was something to cling onto, for hope.
And of course, if the idea of a God was real, each religion would have all worshipped the same God, instead there were religions which believed in many Gods, some only in one. They can't all be right, only one could be right and of course, nobody will ever be able to decide. Religious texts, like the Bible, Quoran (sp?) and so on are very vague, and often relate to natural disasters. For example, the story of Moses. Many of the things can be easily explained with science nowadays, the black skies and blood red rivers were caused by the nearby eruption of Vesuvius, the ash filled the air and also killed many of the fish.

So, in a nutshell, I don't believe in a God or an afterlife (but I do wish that there is some form of afterlife or reincarnation), I do accept that whatever I do will have no effect on the rest of the universe and I am very insignificant. And that's simply life.
And now I'm tired and need a rest .

[Deathscythe1911]

Deso, I can understand how you would question God and the reasons you have for those questions. You think, 'If god is real then why is my life a living hell...". I asked my self that question yesterday when my brother Over Dosed on cocaine. There really is no answer to that question other than its just a belief thing. You're gonna kill yourself wondering the reasons why god doesn't exist when there are also things that you can't explain. Death and disease hurt us all in different ways, but doubt is bound to happen. I just believe in God because I just beleive. No more. No less. My brother had a lethal amound of cocaine in his system and he still lived. You can believe that the body could fight the poisoning off but you also have to wonder how, since the body is such an imperfect vessel but its just one of those things you cant wonder about.

[Natus]

Life, itself cannot be defined, every molecule, every atom, our very essence is but a ideaological extension of our perception on a advanced level of thinking. This world is but what we make. If you suffer from teenage agnst, life is but a hollow shell of pain and sadness. If you are searching for something, love, truth, whatever your objective is, life is but a route to take to it. Life is but a dream as they say, and in truth, that is far more solid than anyone thinks. Dreams are our minds mental projection of possible theological realities, why do you think by understanding our dreams we can progress further psycologically? its because our unconcious mind is much more powerful and manueavable than our concious one, it is not clouded by misinterpretations, bias theorums and such. Life is what a person makes it. God, heh, god moves in mysterious ways they say. You want to know exactly what god is? God is me. God is you. God is the man on the bus sitting opposite you. Why? because that man, in an essence has made reality. No reality is total reality, no truth is total truth. A rule for one is not a rule for all. While our realities do follow certain "Guidelines", laws etc, the reality you experience is your OWN. You created what you perceive. God is us. The universe, essentially requires our knowlegde and understanding. You can say god gave us life, and beleive it. But for those who are willing to open their eyes and see beyond the shiny sheen of this wonderful planet and attempt to actually get to the core of "your" universe, and understand just what it is, they, they are the ones who are free.

They say ignorance is bliss, and indeed, for some it is. People, are autonomous, they fail to operate on their own, fail to act on personal evaluation, preferring to rely on the a pinnacle controller, in this society, i would hazard a guess it be the media. A person, however, can act independantly. They will evaluate and operate according to realisation of all sides of the argument. But a person, is a rare find. Look around you. Who do you trust? Who do you follow? If the awnser to that is yourself, congratulations, your above the majority of the puppet like masses. Why have i made this point in this paragraph you ask? To help you seperate yourself from the yolk of the human safety blanket of unrealised reality. To help you realise this life isnt about praising an ideal, but rather becoming the ideal. Becoming MORE. Leave the limits of this "guide to life" that has been placed before you. Find a truth and a reality. Find yourself.

[Ash]

Ah, you refer to Objective and Subjective universes.

Objective being 'everything', Subjective being your perception of everything that you encounter. Your world.
Which is why some people are religious and others not. God exists in the religious person's universe, but not in the atheist's.


A long-winded and difficult way of putting it, Natus, but I think I'm right in that that's what you're getting at.


I for one do not believe that there is a God. God, for me, doesn't play a part. In the future, that could in all possibility alter. But for everyone else who does believe, I should say that I don't think God would care that I don't believe. I would think He has more important things to worry about than a 16-year-old computer addict whose Subjective Universe doesn't include Him...


People aren't autonomous, though. They're merely ushered into believing what others believe. While, if they actually sat down and thought about the fact they're being shepherded, many might reject what they've been brought up to believe and find their own path as they realise it isn't actually right for them. No-one needs to follow a dogma. I've been reading up on a lot to do with the occult lately, and it makes a lot more sense than a lot of the other ideas I've read. Essentially, it takes the Objective/Subjective Universe and puts it into practice. Do what is comfortable for you, regardless of what you see or you read. If you read into Occultism, you'd find over a thousand different answers to the same question, and none of them will be right...for YOU. They are right for the people who wrote them, but where they went wrong is the "My answer's right and yours is not" mentality. It's the same mentality as any other religion.
What is true is: There is no right or wrong, except in the Subjective Universe. To YOU, YOU are ALWAYS right. But the next guy who comes along will say you're WRONG because his idea is different, but it is no less RIGHT.
Essentially, do what you like. As it is definitely right.


By this token, the Religious discussions that go on on this or any forum can be closed. Because there is no 'wrong'. If the person who wrote it truly and steadfastly believes in what he or she wrote, then to them, they are right. And cannot be proven wrong.
I daresay that even extremists who use terror to get their way believe and interpret what they do as being right. To them, they are. But to the majority who have to live with it, they're wrong.


Very hazy subject, this one...but maybe that's where all religious discussions turn into flames...the fact that one cannot distinguish between the Objective and Subjective, because no-one can truly see the Objective, yet they believe they can. They're so used to the Subjective that they think it's all there is, and everything there is. Nothing is ever without bias, no matter how unbiased it looks.

Simply put, to many, what I've just said might be a total pile of bollocks. And that's fine. I'm not asking you to believe it. I also may have changed my story since the last post I made on the subject. And that's fine also, because my Universe has changed. And it probably will continue to do so until my death, when it will end.

~CJ

[Eternal2u]

Here is my theory on Heaven Hell and all that in between BS...

Purgotory (no clue hwo to spell it) is real, it's in between heaven and hell, and it's right here on earth...

Everyone knows that ghosts are real, if you don't come to Louisiana and spend a night at my grandpa's, i guarntee you'll beleave after that...

But neways, i beleave ghosts are dead spirits that refuse to accept that there dead, and instead roam earth, bothering the good folks like you and me

Then there are the ghosts stuck in between that beleave and know there dead, but don't want to goto judgement quite yet, so they hang around, try to watch there loved ones the best they can...some are more powerful than others because of there shear will power, which allows them to do more than the normal ghost in protecting there loved ones..

I beleave that is purgatory..

As for heaven...i beleave Heaven is also for those who have passed through judgement and have been accepted through the gates, i beleave the surrounding's is clouds, the roads are gold, and that it's a huge fricken party not some worship service up there..

I think heaven is in a whole other reality, and that we will never know where it is untill the day we die and pass judgement..

I Beleave hell is here on earth...i beleave all those who do not pass judgement, are thrown back to there respective earth, in there respective reality, (read the reality thread for my theory on reality) where there surroundings are completly black, they cannot see, and blue flames engulf them for all eternity...

yea fucking twisted..but that's my belief...

[Ash]

It's not twisted. You believe it. Don't refute your own beliefs

http://forums.revora...?showtopic=7801 this has my sentiments on the subject

Why would they be thrown onto Earth into a pit of blue flame, though? How would we not notice?

[Soundwave]

go to the other topic it is the same as this one

[Ash]

There are basically 3 topics the same. If I could be bothered, I'd probably merge them. In fact no, I will.

[Ash]

Bumpety bump

[Jorg40]

I think we just die... pitch black..

[Hostile]

Well in middle eastern and western religions we die and go to Hell.

In eastern religions you keep getting reborn till you get it right (nirvana)

Maybe it's the same thing. When you die, you return to Hell (this place) for another round till you get it right.

We might actually all be believing the same thing without realizing it.

[Tom]

All religion is the same, everyone has just lost understanding of it over the centuries of conflict and retardism of the human race.

[Dave]

AND NOW:
MY VIEWS

1. The human mind is worked through a very complex series of organic circuitry (nerves)
2. Feelings, memories, senses etc, are all electronic signals, which basically, means the Human Mind, is energy
3. When someone dies the energy of there thoughts, experiences etc, dissipates into the enviroment, like all other energy
4. Normally the energy will become heat, or according to Einstien (who was right on this one, accuse me of anti-semetism now!) mass (E=MC^2 and all that stuff, it atomic physics)
5. In some cases (very rare) the energy will remain as electrical causing ghosts
6. Ghost are the remains of a mind which has lost it's physical ecessence, it has a limited ablity to communicate with the world around it.
7. Ghosts seem to live on heat enegy which is naturally present, causing someone in the presence of a ghost to feel cold
8. In some cases a ghost will become more powerful, being able to make sounds, or manipulate objects (in this cases they are refered to as polaguistes, I know, I can't spell)
9. As it is composed of energy, it is possible for the human mind to do a number of "impossible" things, such as combat cancer when it would seem to be impossible, walk on water, read the thoughs of other humans, maniplate electricity and heat (we call this psionics or psi-power)
10. God, as in the christian god (or any god), can therefore exist, if many powerful "ghosts" chose to become a single lifeform

[Jorg40]

Oh, shit... that creapy stuff you just said made me feel cold...
I belive in ghost's now

By the way guys, there is a place right next too my city named Hell (serious), so when I die, I go there? Its about 3km from my house so...
On the train station on Hell there is a sign that says "Gods Expedition" Gods is a norwegian word and mean baggage....

Edited by Jorg40, 12 March 2005 - 08:13 PM.

[Tom]

Ghosts is one thing i find difficult to understand. I've seen some dodgy things in my life time at my mates farm. Many dodgy things that made me certain ghosts exist, but i find it impossible to believe in god. However i blame the years of humanitys stupidity, ignorance and arrogance for that.

[Ash]

1. The human mind is worked through a very complex series of organic circuitry (nerves)
2. Feelings, memories, senses etc, are all electronic signals, which basically, means the Human Mind, is energy
3. When someone dies the energy of there thoughts, experiences etc, dissipates into the enviroment, like all other energy
4. Normally the energy will become heat, or according to Einstien (who was right on this one, accuse me of anti-semetism now!) mass (E=MC^2 and all that stuff, it atomic physics)
5. In some cases (very rare) the energy will remain as electrical causing ghosts
6. Ghost are the remains of a mind which has lost it's physical ecessence, it has a limited ablity to communicate with the world around it.
7. Ghosts seem to live on heat enegy which is naturally present, causing someone in the presence of a ghost to feel cold
8. In some cases a ghost will become more powerful, being able to make sounds, or manipulate objects (in this cases they are refered to as polaguistes, I know, I can't spell)
9. As it is composed of energy, it is possible for the human mind to do a number of "impossible" things, such as combat cancer when it would seem to be impossible, walk on water, read the thoughs of other humans, maniplate electricity and heat (we call this psionics or psi-power)
10. God, as in the christian god (or any god), can therefore exist, if many powerful "ghosts" chose to become a single lifeform

*goes to write story based on these 10 rules*

Although Final Fantasy 7 has a similar concept...I think I can get away with it

You think I'm joking? o_0 I'm going to write it...

[Silent_Killa]

AND NOW:
MY VIEWS

1. The human mind is worked through a very complex series of organic circuitry (nerves)
2. Feelings, memories, senses etc, are all electronic signals, which basically, means the Human Mind, is energy
3. When someone dies the energy of there thoughts, experiences etc, dissipates into the enviroment, like all other energy
4. Normally the energy will become heat, or according to Einstien (who was right on this one, accuse me of anti-semetism now!) mass (E=MC^2 and all that stuff, it atomic physics)
5. In some cases (very rare) the energy will remain as electrical causing ghosts
6. Ghost are the remains of a mind which has lost it's physical ecessence, it has a limited ablity to communicate with the world around it.
7. Ghosts seem to live on heat enegy which is naturally present, causing someone in the presence of a ghost to feel cold
8. In some cases a ghost will become more powerful, being able to make sounds, or manipulate objects (in this cases they are refered to as polaguistes, I know, I can't spell)
9. As it is composed of energy, it is possible for the human mind to do a number of "impossible" things, such as combat cancer when it would seem to be impossible, walk on water, read the thoughs of other humans, maniplate electricity and heat (we call this psionics or psi-power)
10. God, as in the christian god (or any god), can therefore exist, if many powerful "ghosts" chose to become a single lifeform

heh, y'know, if you want to consider a scientific explanation for heaven, there is a theory that the reason the universe continues to expand is because energy is "leaking" out to somewhere else (this is the main theory opposing the dark matter theory)...

Ghosts is one thing i find difficult to understand. I've seen some dodgy things in my life time at my mates farm. Many dodgy things that made me certain ghosts exist, but i find it impossible to believe in god. However i blame the years of humanitys stupidity, ignorance and arrogance for that.

you think that's creepy certain members of my family can actually see ghosts... never believed 'em much, but when a group of 10 saw what they were seeing at the same time