16 replies to this topic

[Pendaelose]

This would all be useful info for me. I'm curious for everyones input. I won't be making any decisions solely on these results, but they may factor in with future decisions.

Edited by Pendaelose, 07 August 2010 - 08:53 PM.

[Therevenage]

I don't like the major overhaul idea of the economy like what 008 will become for contra , but i do agree that units are far more spammy in degree then Zero hour ever was.

So i voted for "Units are quite easy to mass but i don't want to see any drastic changes"


The mod has potential and i want to see that potential used to the greatest degree.
I hold a hamachi network that's quite activate if you need any beta testers i can hook you up with some skilled ones.

However if you want opinion

from the greatest and most skilled of ZH players i suggest you hold a Poll here.

http://gamereplays.org/cnczerohour/

Edited by Therevenage, 08 August 2010 - 03:53 AM.

[Violence]

Hmm. I will say that Nuclear Gen has the most balanced Unit-Cash-Tech relation so far. I voted that I am concerned but wouldn't want any major over-haul.

Ehmm. Therevenage.. I haven't knit-picked but your link points at a URL where only Vanilla ZH is used.

[Therevenage]

Indeed , however these players are quite skilled at the game so there opinions are what should truly matter the most. as they are the ones going to be playing the mod online and promoting more people to play it , slowly you can gather quite a nice little group of online gamers that will play your mod for years to come

Spoiler

Imagin half life mods without multiplayer? Sure as hell would suck lol.

[ApOcOlYpS]

I think that more generals should follow what Tank, Lasers and Air Force have of requiring either promotions or tech upgrades to unlock units. Remix has such an extremely high unit count that allowing all units to be built would be a little insane. But, in doing the tech/promotion system players customize their general more to their liking (though allowing all units would let them use whatever they wanted, it's nice to force people to choose between one or two really big units). This should limit units as well as make there be more big choices.

[Pendaelose]

I think that more generals should follow what Tank, Lasers and Air Force have of requiring either promotions or tech upgrades to unlock units. Remix has such an extremely high unit count that allowing all units to be built would be a little insane. But, in doing the tech/promotion system players customize their general more to their liking (though allowing all units would let them use whatever they wanted, it's nice to force people to choose between one or two really big units). This should limit units as well as make there be more big choices.

Tech tree driven armies now include

Laser
Tank
AirF
Chem
Robot
Infantry


That's half the armies...

I could see cutting more armies down with similar choices, though some of them will be smaller, like the Infantry general mid-late game choice. This actually makes a good polling topic, to see what techs are used the most...

However if you want opinion
from the greatest and most skilled of ZH players i suggest you hold a Poll here.

They may be quite skilled indeed, but I'd rather know what Remix players have to say than what Vanilla player have to say. Their opinions aren't especially helpful they don't follow my mod. The most valuable opinions here are those who know where the mod has been in the past and are invested in seeing it's future.

[ApOcOlYpS]

Half the armies may have tech choices, but only Laser, AFG and Tank have it on such a large scale (and robot, you got me there).

For chem general I don't believe there are that many differences in units, and due to upgrades as stated on the teaser video both can be upgraded to be good against both tanks/buildings and infantry (making the difference less pronounced). Of course I don't play chem gen, so my point of view is limited.

Infantry I haven't played or looked at at all and so cannot have an opinion on that (other than the power of the early tank hunters against buildings).

The thing that I like about AFG, Tank and the new Laser is that there are so many choices that the general can feel like a different general depending on which choices you take. It seems that Chem feels relatively the same no matter what you specialize in. Being able to mix & match also helps with the customizability and making the general feel more unique/varied if not unpredictable.

It may be difficult to do with some generals (flame and nuke come to mind quickly), but I think would be worth looking into for a future release.

[Pendaelose]

for some it's only a small difference.. others huge... but the choices are there.

As for flame and nuke... I've thought a bit about tech trees and just don't see many strong options. the options I've looked at just feel "weak" to me and don't justify exclusive techs... but here they are...


Nuke: 2 trademark features... Radiation and Nuke blasts...

A tech tree option that expands on radiation. Larger radius, more duration, and maybe a few more irradiator flavored units.
A tech tree option that expands nuke blasts. More damage, larger radius maybe. one or two of the cannon or artillery units could fall under this.

If these were a choice at mid-game that only modified your units, and added just a couple units to the tree it could work, but it's not nearly enough to base a tree off of. It's also worth note that Nuke is doing very well in the China-Poll as he is now. I don't think he needs a major change.


Flame general: Flame, TBM, Thermite

These are options that could be grown on, but it would take a lot of expanding to make whole tech trees out of them. Flame actually has a lot of potential in this area, but the units are poorly grouped for the change... maybe a one time choice in the early game that sets your warhead type for all weapons? Each can have it's perks. early game TBM units would have to be scaled down, but that's not a deal breaker. Even with the same units they would have very different effects in some cases... the artillery units especially would see a huge change... flame for anti-infantry... thermite for tanks... while TBM would be a compromise between both at the cost of every blast having a delay. it could work... I'd just have to tweek the balance between the damage types for each. (btw, this is more like how chem plays)

this isn't a bad idea at all... I'll consider it. i also like the tech tree generals more, it's just not every general is as overflowing as robot... it takes a lot of work to make an army cut in two like that.

now, a much harder question.

If I was going to a tech tree nature across the whole mod what would I do for Assault, Demo, Stealth, and SuperWeapon?

[Violence]

And here's your answer as best I may put it..

Assault - Already pointed you should expand on the Oil Tech Tree. A new name, and 3 more distinct abilities or simply replace existing ones, would do. It's a vehicle-based tree the way I envision it, already suggested you look into speed boosts, things like that.. Or if you remember.. Full upgrades(right now it's way cheap to have it as something you can pay for) .. Maybe modified Chinese and US vehicles.. Maybe this tree should limit the Faction to vehicle usage, and leave the SW at Level 1 only. Things like that. I think I had more suggestions as I said on one of those TXT files I sent over the past few weeks?

Demo is fine really but if he would go Tech-based then look into trap-making, suicide or explosives upgrades becoming separate and more powerfull IMHO. Some stuff is mentioned in the TXTs.

Stealth - I would boost his Ambushes tree, maybe do something special about his Hi-Jackers.. Perhaps he could "decoy" or "bait" enemy abilities or steal them. Fake units and buildings should be instantly built, maybe free too. Again I've mentioned him in those TXTs. Another point would be to focus on buggies, and offer a variety of those just like other GLA get Scorpion varieties. Good replacement for "Conventional Warfare vehicles" or whatever that Gen Power is called. Also perhaps all his buildings should be really reduced in size to allow tactical placement but without covering the whole map just to avoid having 2-3 of your buildings revealed by a single scan. Things like that.

SuperWeapons - Really, read my TXT, there are a few promising possibilities. I am talking about the specialized defense choices.. Which could be expanded to include several check-mate weapons that are not conventional. So say, choosing to specialize against Particles should also offer stuff that would hurt Laser Gen- Maybe an ability that destroyes Power Plants. Maybe spawn an engineer which can act like a saboteur and have him somehow increase power demands in a radius around him or simply decrease a plant's out-put within a certain radius... Maybe it can't happen but I am using this only as an example of what I mean of SW specializing her defenses that way.

[Jester22]

As for making each general more tech tree based, I have a couple ideas, some of which I may have mentioned in other threads, but I will do my best to convey them here.

For SupW gen, I really could see some of the ideas for Laser being thrown her way. The Gravity and Shield techs especially. For her, she could only "max out" one of them and have a point in the other (or possibly two points in each). Being a turtle type general, I could really see her utilizing these the best.

Shields would increase her defenses allowing amassed super weapons to be readied, while, if her defense is deemed sufficient she could go into the Gravity tech to get a more mobile attack force across a map. The SupW style is generally sitting back and watching your enemy smash themselves to bits on a base defense line, which is effective, but boring, while you wait for your super weapons to count down and demolish their base(s).

Even if a single point into Gravity tech allows her vehicles more mobility, or at rank two add a limited build unit that has the ability to teleport, hit an area hard and quickly and move on could be a fun way of giving a player something to do other than find a gap in their defense line that needs a building. Another reason I could see these techs going to her is because getting your general points on the enemy coming to you is a bit slower than them wrecking your buildings. Her vehicles are somewhat lacking in stamina, which is fine since her base is really what should be shining for her, but just a tweak on her mobile forces could really make her more bearable in something other than a team game. Maybe a point in shields increases her base shields/shield generators or gives individual shields to each building/vehicle. I would like to see the Shield generator more mobile to keep up with her other forces or something. Get up and move, ya know?

I can't really comment on the GLA generals at the moment since I have not actually sat down and played them fully. I can't say I'll come up with anything great but we shall see I guess. Now, the Flame and Nuke gens, I like them a lot, and don't want drastic changes, but I do wanna see something changed. I'll play them more this week and drop another line in here later on.

Edited by Jester22, 11 August 2010 - 02:31 AM.

[Tomeistery]

I absolutely with jester, particularly the teleporting for sw!

[Pendaelose]

I'm bumping this to try and get a new round of votes.

[Jeno]

and here, my vote works... i nearly always use tournament mode and go with about 50k... i also think that money comes too easily in a way that tactics are affected. if you have money left and nothing really to spend it on other than just making a giant force, then i'd say you have too much money.

[Blockhead]

well when i play with ai, i start game with maximum money, cause insane ai can't be defeated other way, than oversammed
when i play thru hamachi it is always standart 10000
i like the way it is with units production cost/speed/awailability
tournament mode BLEAH

[ados]

Hi

when we play thru hamachi we always play t/mode and start with 10000 cash makes for very interesting and strategic games. I like t/mode as it greatly reduces unit spamming and forces you to use your army with greater care.