14 replies to this topic

[clank234]

I made almost all the characters necesarry but as I want my mod to be close to the books, I don't know if I should take out characters such as Lurtz from the campaign because Lurtz is made up by PJ and not JRRT. And should I also take out unecesarry characters such as Eowyn from Helms Deep as she was never there? I need some answers as I'm clue less on what to do in this situation

Edited by clank234, 15 February 2011 - 06:26 PM.

[Gandalf17]

I'd say definitly keep Lurtz in the game, he's just too cool to remove from the campaign in my opinion. And you can remove Eowyn from Helms Deep as she didnt even fight there in the movie either.

[mike_]

I think that you should post in one topic instead of several.

[Mouth of Sauron]

To say that what JRRT did not explicitely describe could not exist is to kill all imagination that, on the contrary, is to be unleashed for the highest pleasure of reading the books or watching the films.

Lurtz is simply one of the nameless uruk-hai captains, no more, no less. JRRT cannot give us all names and characters in details, and, actually, in the films you don't hear the name of that creature either, do you. Just rename him, if you think it is important... make him a nameless "Uruk-Hai captain" insted of "Lurtz", but the figure fits great with the Uruks, and he is one of my favourite units in the game.

MoS

[clank234]

I think that you should post in one topic instead of several.

I understand. But when I do, I get someone having a go at me for going off topic I'll use this topic as my idea topic now and hopefully no one will have a go at me for 'going off topic'
Anyways, I think I'll just rename him into 'Uruk Hai Captain' and then I can have him as a hero that you can buy like 2-3 times

Edit: And Lurtz/Uruk Hai Captain didn't even kill Boromir. He was just overwelhmed by loads of Uruks

Edited by clank234, 15 February 2011 - 06:25 PM.

[Námo]

... as I want my mod to be close to the books, I don't know if I should take out characters such as Lurtz from the campaign because Lurtz is made up by PJ and not JRRT.

The character called 'Lurtz' could very well stay, but you should give him another name.

He sort of epitomizes the Uruks attacking Boromir at Amon Hen, but about all we know is from Pippin's scant memories of that fight (Two Towers, Chapter 3) ... so in the books that Uruk is without name.

There are about 3 to 4 named Isengard-uruks in some of Tolkien's other writings, names not included in the trilogy itself. If you want your mod to stay true to his works, using one of those names will do the trick for you, without violating the lore.

I have those names of additional Isengard-uruks somewhere in my notes. If someone are interested in using them, I'll find them and post them.

[clank234]

@Namo: Thx, it would be nice if you could post those names up. All I know is Ugluk, Mauhir, Gorbag, And I think Shagrat was one aswell but I'm not to sure. I get get confused over Shagrat and Gorbag
And I think I sent you a PM on helping me with the lore but not sure if you got it

Edit: If the staff don't mind, I would like to put this thread as my mods ideas and qustions. I'll put up a tech tree soon but not now of what will be in it. Some of the coding has been done and when we're ready, we'll try and get hosted (we = me, Unknown, Gandalf17)

Edited by clank234, 15 February 2011 - 07:07 PM.

[Námo]

I did only find one extra name related to Isengard in my notes on Black Speech, the rest were unused named for Mordor orcs/uruks.

Gorbag and Shagrat belong to Mordor, not Isengard. Grishnâkh is also from Mordor, but under command of Uglûk, the commander of the Uruk-hai patrol from Isengard, so he could be used in an Isengard-faction, if there's a shortage of authentic names.

The complete list of authentic names for Isengard then looks like this (PN = Person Name):

Lugdush: PN an orc of Isengard, slain by Rohirrim
Mauhûr: PN an orc of Isengard, slain by Rohirrim
Snaga: PN an orc of Isengard, slain by Rohirrim
Uglûk: PN an orc-leader of Isengard, slain by Eomer

also usable:

Grishnâkh: PN an orc of Mordor, slain by Rohirrim
sharkû: old man (n) Isengard Orkish

My conclusion on 'Lurtz': This Orc/Uruk should have his name changed to Lugdush. Please note, that Tolkien often did mix up the terms 'orc' and 'uruk'.

 
I can only help you here on T3A, that is if you post some interesting stuff, OK? ... anyway, as some orcs use to greet each other: 'Gâkh Golug narkû gimbubut lat' ("may Noldor never find you").

[clank234]

I know that there were Uruks from Moria aswell. So what's the difference between: Moria Uruks, Mordor Uruks and Isengard Uruks? And was there a particular formula to create them? In the movie they used wood.

[Mathijs]

Again you mention wood being an ingredient to creating Orcs. How the hell did you get that idea? Because they cut the trees of Isengard? You don't reckon those were cut to fuel the smithies that had to mass-produce weapons and armor?

All Uruks came from Mordor.

[Námo]

... was there a particular formula to create them? In the movie they used wood.

Orc-women!

[clank234]

Thx Namo, now I understand how the half-orc warriors were brought. So Sauron corrupted 10's of thousands of men and turned them into orcs. Oh well. I think we can stop talking about this topic... for now

[Námo]

Sorry clank, but I'm not letting you get off the hook so easy. You ask the same questions several times, so my conclusion is that you don't really bother to read the answers.

Example:

... the formula of creating orcs? Because don't they use wood in the movie or something like that?

Well, you got a decent answer in this post.

Then you ask the same question again, in this topic:

... was there a particular formula to create them? In the movie they used wood.

Shame on you. You're not getting my help with that attitude. Not that I care, I've better things to do.

[clank234]

Oh I get it now. Orcs were corrupted men and they had 'Orc Woman' and since they were still like man kind, they had the ability to reproduce like us
So I will remove that orcpit from the game and put something that makes more sense in there. And Sarumans army was made out of the scattered orcs, goblins, uruks and wildmen and Sauron sent his servants to help. Sorry about that Namo
And Uruks were just tough orcs and nothing more
Anyways, that's enough about orcs and uruks

Edited by clank234, 16 February 2011 - 11:23 AM.

[Námo]

I will remove that orcpit from the game and put something that makes more sense in there.

Very good idea. The existing ones are rather ridiculous, especially the one from Mordor (though that is the only structure you can give an authentic name in the Black Speech: bagronk). Skai!

Evidently it must also be disgusting to the Orcs, cf. the orc-curse from The Two Towers, Chapter 3:

"Uglúk u bagronk sha pushdug Saruman-glob búbhosh skai!"
(translation: Uglúk to the dung-pit with stinking Saruman-filth, pig-guts, gah!

... an older and slightly different translation of the curse, giving bagronk as 'cesspool', might probably fit the existing toilet (Mordor) 'pit' even better, cf.:

Ardalambion: Orkish and the Black Speech - base language for base purposes

... the curse of the Mordor-orc: Uglúk u bagronk sha pushdug Saruman-glob búbhosh skai (LotR2 III:3). In PM:83, this is translated "Uglúk to the cesspool, sha! the dungfilth; the great Saruman-fool, skai!" ... This is said to be a "debased" form of Black Speech

Edited by Námo, 16 February 2011 - 07:16 PM.