76 replies to this topic

[Gambit]

Brother Jones, the new version does not contain the FX version for Daemons on capturing a point....

You sent me that one, it was very good, and I guess we all agreed that Daemons need no flags.

So, any chance to re-institute the no-flag, FX-only version?

Edited by Gambit, 26 September 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[Gambit]

Brother Jones, you mean that my config was bad?

I used ONLY the latest OP and the latest Daemons.... No files of OP were overridden...

 

Can you investigate?

[Gambit]

Ah, OK man, I just misunderstood.

[jONES1979]

From yesterday, grab the latest OP_SS mod (version 2015.08.24) from here http://www.moddb.com...usade/downloads

Edited by jONES1979, 24 August 2015 - 05:30 PM.

[Gambit]

Thanks for fixing Harlequins, brother Jones!

Edited by Gambit, 24 August 2015 - 05:48 PM.

[ombrephenix]

Hi "el-JONSON"!

 

I need to know your plans for "OP". Do you have my 3D files for Praetorian "OP"? Do you have a project for them?

"OP" is my second Modding priority. For Praetorian. I must anticipate the assumption of the work "OP". If you are unavailable for the follow-up of the project, I think we need a (solid) link on your files. (DataSrc / OE)

My suggestion is to make a resource for Modding on "Modb".

[ombrephenix]

You made a suggestion or give an opinion to this message? I do not know if I missed your answer.

[jONES1979]

http://www.mediafire...3d_sources).rar

http://www.mediafire..._2016-03-27.rar

 

Currently, I am unavailable for the follow-up any modding

Edited by jONES1979, 18 February 2017 - 07:59 PM.

[ombrephenix]

Thank you Jones! I will therefore make a "synthesis" of all our work.
All the teams of "OP" Mod follow the project here?

 

I have a little trouble finding the "DoW Modding" community on the web. We are all on Révora or ModDB?

Edited by ombrephenix, 19 February 2017 - 05:18 AM.

[Gambit]

Well, ... all the work of my team (Thud's team) is taking place here, on Revora.

And we are responsible for most of the race mods as you know, brother ombrephenix.

 

If there is something we can do, please contact me or Thud.

 

Evenmore, if you are willing to progress the OP mod, by adding support of the races that remain (it's about four or 5, if I recall correctly, so far), we can continue the discussion and progression RIGHT HERE

Edited by Gambit, 19 February 2017 - 10:35 AM.

[Roderick]

Since RN shut down the Unification/Free UI future discussions should be also ported into a proper thread, btw.

[ombrephenix]

OK! I take note of the proposal for aid.
At first I invite the teams concerned by the update of OP to provide me with their "Banners customize".
You still have time in front of you to make one if it is not yet done. (I still have a lot of work on my "HW_Teams")
If I have to take the initiative to make one indicate it. (Offer apply to Révora Teams)
Eventually make a brainstorming of what should be "OP" for 2017/18.

I have ideas for "long-term" (Support via "FFE" of "OP") But if it generates too much work time I do not know if I could do it. I am looking for processes, methods or tools to save time.

The idea is simple: Make a reserve of pitches for future banners.
How: Include in "OP" 10 or 20 false Banners (mesh consisting of two polygons). They allow to have a usable position in "FFE".

[Gambit]

Excellent

 

As brother Roderick said, we will have to have a "common" FreeUI/Unification/OP/Bugfix front. We must see to that asap.

 

Brother Ombrephenix, we already have created "OP capturing methods" and banners for most of our projects.

For example, Adeptus Mechanicus already has one.

 

The problem is that this is imported in the existing OP files of the project, and I do not have the experience to "extract them". I do not even  know if we will have to extract anything

 

So how we proceed? Can you lead the way? What should we do and what do you need from us?

(I am sure Thud is more suitable for this...)

[jONES1979]

FFE is a "fail"-ing way of modding, if you have 3d max, 3d sources and know the workflow.

 

In most cases, 3d modeling via FFE leads to very ugly results.

Edited by jONES1979, 19 February 2017 - 07:19 PM.

[ombrephenix]

Yes! It is a failure Jones. If have not mastered all the processes that implies "FFE" works. I have already indicated in the past that I advise against "FFE" modding if we do not know the basic rules of "3D modeling".(Notably the rules of 3d animation)

 

I think I am with Greenscorpion being among those who have done the most experiments with "FFE". I had more opportunities "Modding" with "FFE". When I started mastering 3D tools. I inspired Dark40k for version 1.01 of "FFE", after a review of my experiences with the tool.(The main drawback for me was the loss of time in identifying Whm elements.) For "OP" (the new concept) i optimize a "FFE" process by preparing the model upstream with 3D tools. Methodology is applied in my work on praetorian. My first work was from "FFE" to 3DMax. Currently they are a synthesis of both. Sometimes 3Dmax is not the best tool.

 

 

So how we proceed? Can you lead the way? What should we do and what do you need from us?

 

 

Just provide whm, whe, attrib, Fx and sounds from your OPs. If you can not provide 3d files I will extract the templates. If I have doubts about the nature of the "POs" I will ask for more information.

 

When I start working 3D the design of the banners is "frozen" (I can not afford to waste too much time on the project) I will indicate when I start the 3D works "OP".

Edited by ombrephenix, 20 February 2017 - 02:49 AM.

[thudo]

Correct me but I thought exporting whe/whm into MAX or OE, making changes, then re-exporting back in the hope all is ok as a whe/whm is a VERY risky endeavour because of you can really never expect consistent results having to literally "disturb" the model by ripping it apart in Max/OE then re-exporting it back in the game?

 

I had Dark40k just recently help fix the long outstanding issue in FFE with changing texture names in a model's whm so now we can change texture paths/names and then allow for its WTP/Army Painter integration to work. Before it would always corrupt the SSHR Header name but with the aid of Dark40k using one of our examples we have fix this long outstanding bug.

 

So FFE is like Race Changer but a far more advanced tweak tool that has saved the DoW1 modding community countless hours of work that would otherwise require a true 3d dev (rare as they are especially on time and reliability). Now we can preform workflows that would otherwise take much longer and still not guarantee a proper end result. With FFE, we can get results a hundred times faster and move the project forward while drastically reducing console and log errors to ensure a highly clean "sustainable" project for those who may come after us.    I do believe this is a laudable achievement for us all especially where future games will quite likely be less moddable then in the past.

[ombrephenix]

Correct me but I thought exporting whe/whm into MAX or OE, making changes, then re-exporting back in the hope all is ok as a whe/whm is a VERY risky endeavour because of you can really never expect consistent results having to literally "disturb" the model by ripping it apart in Max/OE then re-exporting it back in the game?

 

I'm not sure I understand the whole question. I thought you already knew the main defects of a 3dmax import.

1) Loss or Corruption of "Smoothing Groups": Impacts the rendering of curves. Sometimes repeating the "smoothing" of the model is an opportunity to improve the rendering of textures (Too much smoothing generates shadows that "mess" the textures.)

 

2) Loss of the "Skin": The most annoying of the problems. It needs to be redone on "meshes" which require a "Skin" for their animations. It is a long and delicate process depending on the complexity of the 3D model and requires an understanding of the rules of 3d animation.

 

3) Loss animated textures. You have to learn how to make animated textures.
Note: Animated textures is a reason for imports broken with tools "Mudflaps_whm". The trick is to move the textures animations to the bottom of the list of animations (with FFE) in whm. Import will be broken but only when it will attempt to import animated textures. (So at the end of whm) Then it remains only "repaired" the animated texture with "FFE" in "SGM".

 

4) Models like banner can generate random corruption: Two faces (identical, with "skin"?), Very close to each other, occasionally occasionally randomly merge their vertices. (It's painful to identify and repair)

 

5) Exporting from 3dmax to "O.E" may be the cause of "Ebp" corruption. (XRF can be corrupted) This is something that happened more often during the first export. If there is already an "Ebp" (Import with Mudflaps_Tools)
Regular "Ebp" backups must be made between each modification and import of "SGM / Whm".

Edited by ombrephenix, 20 February 2017 - 09:37 AM.

[GreenScorpion]

FFE is an useful tool when used in the correct circumstances but it is not a 3d work tool.

Changing texture paths is more efficient in FFE than in 3dsmax as it is basically a textual change. RT2 found ways to "fix" some models to allow them to be imported to 3dsmax but for any other major changes nothing replaces actual 3d work to keep models optimized.

Even with the most well performed FFE conversion there is always some kind of overhead or corruption of the model. Although it might not be noticeable in most cases there are always some issues under the "hood".

For something as important as the OP mod actual 3dsmax work is always the best option

[thudo]

@Ombre - You made my point, thanks. 

@Green - FFE has its limits, but what it does it does so well it became a super-advanced version of Kontuz's Race Changer which has saved many projects so much grief and slow down. Its a massive stop-gap tool to fix long outstanding art or event issues and thank gawd it exists otherwise almost all DoW1 projects would be in a mess.

[thudo]

Any news on the OP Mod front, gents..

 

I have an official thread for it to keep track of the mods _race names and their texture paths so there will be no doubt located HERE.

 

We're needing a dedicated resource to preform the task as we have now MANY projects lying in limbo waiting on the update!