48 replies to this topic

[duke_Qa]

Figured I'd start a quick thread on the topic before I went to bed. SO, riots in the streets. Most seem to be people with no hope for getting anywhere in life.

My gut senses tells me: "frustrated industrial grunts with no industrial jobs left in the country for them, has no reason to exist beyond living off welfare and getting angry at football-matches and riots". Could be more to it or I could be completely wrong. Anyway, I think the timing is impeccable with the economic situation around the world.

[OmegaBolt]

I've no idea whats happening, seems entirely motivated by rage. It's just exploded out of Tottenham after the Police shot a man dead with no details given so far, it's still under investigation. It seems like these people have taken advantage of that.

BBC live stream.

Edited by OmegaBolt, 08 August 2011 - 09:58 PM.

[Námo]

I've no idea whats happening ...

It's just a result of multiculturalism. Breakdown of common values and social cohesion. The future of Europe.

The warning for this was given almost half a century ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy-Ecb8jwqk

We have seen scenes like the ones from London before. Repeatedly. In France, where the mop last year used automatic weapons against police-officers trying to stop the riots; those were not the first massive riots in France. In Sweden; not so spectacular, but often. In Greece. In almost every European country: breakdown of social cohesion, intimidations, violence, rapes, burning of cars and schools, and looting.

"Cultural enrichment" in the multicultural communities of European cities. Paris, Grenoble, Toulouse, Marseilles, Brussels, Gottsunda, Gøteborg, Malmø, Copenhagen, etc. ... the list is long.

London, August 2011:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7H02HSip_c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pei8eMCiSIU

Still escalating, third day and night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4DUtDMfymI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-VibEd2ZXo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yPZa8kBuIk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HEdukcOwDk

Riots and looting also in Birmingham. Bring in the Army, Special Forces. Seriously.

Edited by Námo, 08 August 2011 - 10:44 PM.

[Madin]

This is child's play, the real rioting (the rioting that will include adults) will occur once the UK economy fully implodes.

Has for these riots, most of the initial rioters were members of small gangs. This excited other gangs around London to mimic these gangs behaviour.

24hour news commentary provided them with details and a blue print of what to do and expect (they would have been especially interested in the looting aspect).

To be frank, London has been preparing, and is prepared for much worse.
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I find the deliberate focus that the BBC place on social networkings role (rather than the more obvious mobile phone calls + texts combo) interesting, especially in the context of 'Internet 2.0' and with multiple governments demanding greater control over the internet.

The BBC are such tools.
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Also interested in them leading questions on police presence and whether the public felt that there should have been a heavier or more visible presence.
Considering that they are dealing with several small pockets of thugs spread all over London, I don't see how the they could have done more.

Edited by Madin, 09 August 2011 - 02:39 AM.

[Námo]

I find the deliberate focus that the BBC place on social networkings role (rather than the more obvious mobile phone calls + texts combo) interesting ...

One of the most appalling aspects is how the hand-wringing liberals and self-appointed ‘community leaders’ have been making excuses for the rioters – the usual crap about boredom, lack of opportunity, ‘heavy handed’ policing and so on. But with several parts of the capital in flames even the news channels seem to have wisely decided to stop letting those idiots run their stupid mouths.

[Námo]

Coming soon to a town near you [herever in Europe you live]:

Violence and looting in Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol and Leeds. London north, south, east and west, in Hackney, Peckham, Croydon, Deptford, Clapham, Lewisham, Woolwich and Ealing:

You can find an interactive version of this on Google Maps: London riots / UK riots: verified areas

Edited by Námo, 09 August 2011 - 09:29 AM.

[Námo]

More video clips from the riots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIYnZW7EIWE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_TIAhYD8xU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53XnvNOR5EU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZWQoJtvaoU

There has also been similar riots in Northern Ireland, less than a month ago: Belfast riots ... I guess they never really reached the headlines in the MSM; it seems such events are increasingly becoming sort of "daily life" in a multicultural society.

[Puppeteer]

The Belfast riots had different pretexts to these riots, and is not about multiculturalism.
Also, the rioters have lacked opportunities, decent education and prospects of future employment. You might call the community leaders wishy-washy, but this kind of violence, frustration and petty vandalism arises from neglect. Growing up and maturity are the formative years in people's lives, yet when inner-city education is so appallingly inadequate and local opportunities for alternative employment and education (such as apprenticeships and internships from both the public and private sectors) are few and far between, these people grow up disillusioned with society and feel the need to 'rebel', to cause mayhem and destruction for their own personal, short-term gain because they have never been shown the benefits that society and communities bring. Their actions are appalling and irresponsible, but living on the fringes of society will breed hatred. Values cannot be instilled when dysfunctional families and dysfunctional schooling cannot provide the discipline and framework for a healthy upbringing, hence the propensity for gangs; gangs provide a nuclear community which these young people lack, with a sense of community, harmony and self-worth. Youth workers and investment in young people are vital, especially during tough economic times, to halt this deterioration of self-worth in this consumerist society. Hence why in February I was so glad that the court ruled Michael Gove's idealogical attempt to scrap Labour's Building Schools for the Future programme was an "abuse of power". We may live in an ageing society, but the priority and focus for investment, employment and education must go to young people, not old people. The ramifications of not providing for young people are far too serious.
It's far too easy for the middle-class to cast these people off as scum, forgetting that their behaviour and actions are not self-generated. You are as much a product of your upbringing as you are of your own, inherent personality. Even more so, but when the middle-class are brought up in comfortable circumstances with the axiomatic principles of family, education, democracy and employment, it's easy to lose sight of how many resources have gone into making you a happy and functioning citizen, when others are neglected. There's no natural demarcation between scum and citizen; if you were brought up (or neglected) in similar environments, without exceptional circumstances, you would have had an entirely different life.
That is not to say I condone the riots. On the contrary, I find them as reprehensible as the next man. But rather than seeking short-term remedies, such as tougher policing, a curfew and more arrests, we need to take a more mature stance and appreciate that severe changes to our socio-political institutions need to be made, and that education and employment are the keystones of a capitalist society, which cannot be neglected.

Edited by Puppeteer, 09 August 2011 - 10:34 AM.

[Caspa]

All I can say is, good luck Ash. You'll fucking need it.

[Námo]

... good luck Ash ...

Good luck from me too, Ash ... also to your fellow police-officer, especially to all those injured by this meaningless violence.

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Just found this on the Norwegian VGTV: London youth warns: "People are going to be shot and killed"

[from 1:58 to 1:19] "It's not gonna stop ... this is just minor, this is just showing what they CAN do, and people are gonna come out next ... shooting people ..."
(the transcript may not be exact, check it out yourself)

Edited by Námo, 09 August 2011 - 01:41 PM.

[Imagine]

Good luck Ash, hopefully the Polica and possibly the Army can get this sorted soon. Scary as hell going to sleep wondering whether your car will be set on fire or someone will try to loot your home. That's the reality of what me and my family is going through.

[duke_Qa]

Best of luck to Ash yeah, who will probably be in the middle of this for a few days. I hope he'll be able to drop a comment about the situation if he is not under oath to keep his mouth shut.

I don't really understand how this has anything to do with multiculturalism Nàmo, This is a social and economic problem. If there had been jobs for these people available, they would have been much less likely to do anything. If there was good education available, they would have been more likely to have known better. The closest argument against multiculturalism you can get here is that all the easy and/or shitty jobs have been outsourced to different nations far away with different cultures; but thats called globalism.

Anyway, puppeteer put it very nicely up there.

On the contrary, I find them as reprehensible as the next man. But rather than seeking short-term remedies, such as tougher policing, a curfew and more arrests, we need to take a more mature stance and appreciate that severe changes to our socio-political institutions need to be made, and that education and employment are the keystones of a capitalist society, which cannot be neglected.

[Allathar]

Another argument could be the budget cuts in many areas. And we all know the reason the UK has ran out of money is because of multiculturalism - subsidizing muslims for decades, importing people with no knowledge or any proper workskills whatsoever, etc.

[duke_Qa]

Also all the jews stole all the gold.

These are the kind of one-line conspiracies and comb-overs that the mass murderer up here lived by. How fair would you find it if you got bombed/shot by a right-wing extremist? Imagine a sibling or a close friend getting a dumdum bullet between the eyes from a apathic white man, "bullseye" or a small laugh being his only comment to their untimely death.

If you want to bash multiculturalism at least be specific about what is wrong with it. Or else its just way too obvious that its just externalizing the frustration one feel onto a "foreign enemy", which is a lot easier and "sexier" than just realizing the problem lies with yourself and your own system.

Or else I'd assume you assume everything would be fine if you "killed off all the Moslems". I would like to see the argument of how that fixes the economy.

Edited by duke_Qa, 09 August 2011 - 04:56 PM.

[Allathar]

Also all the jews stole all the gold.

Bravo, you just compared me to Hitler. It only took 1 post.

These are the kind of one-line conspiracies and comb-overs that the mass murderer up here lived by. How fair would you find it if you got bombed/shot by a right-wing extremist? Imagine a sibling or a close friend getting a dumdum bullet between the eyes from a apathic white man, "bullseye" or a small laugh being his only comment to their untimely death.

Just because he was a violent nutjob doesn't mean his ideas weren't grounded in reality.

If you want to bash multiculturalism at least be specific about what is wrong with it. Or else its just way too obvious that its just externalizing the frustration one feel onto a "foreign enemy", which is a lot easier and "sexier" than just realizing the problem lies with yourself and your own system.

Simple. There are different cultures because people have different views on the world, different ways of live,, different norms and values. If you force those different groups to live together, sooner or later there is going to be a lot of trouble because of those differences.

Or else I'd assume you assume everything would be fine if you "killed off all the Moslems". I would like to see the argument of how that fixes the economy.

And no, I'm not a stereotype redneck either. Sorry to ruin your day.

[duke_Qa]

Bravo, you just compared me to Hitler. It only took 1 post.

It can't be compared to anything else if you don't take the time to add nuance to your white-hot rhetoric. Don't go for the Godwin defense right off the bat when you go around generic-bashing multiculturalism with Muslims specially mentioned.

Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate

Just because he was a violent nutjob doesn't mean his ideas weren't grounded in reality.

He was an extreme narcissist that masturbated his ideals with like-minded individuals until he lived in a bubble of his own device. His "reality" is virtually non-existent and should not be taken seriously.

Simple. There are different cultures because people have different views on the world, different ways of live,, different norms and values. If you force those different groups to live together, sooner or later there is going to be a lot of trouble because of those differences.

Much better explanation. I'm no fan of letting people follow ancient rituals that goes against the law as well, but I do try my best to make it a fair and selective process and not a comb-over of the entire cultural group. Also, The problematic groups up here are marginal at best, and most have successfully integrated and are very pragmatic in making a scene over their cultural heritage. Anyone who goes halleluja/akhbar/holier-than-thou in a country where they are a minority has very little to do there in the first place.

And no, I'm not a stereotype redneck either. Sorry to ruin your day.

The court is still out on that one. Anyone who just toss out junk like that gets filtered into my redneck bin. And I probably have more reason to be in that redneck bin than most people in this forum, so its a shameful place to be

Edited by duke_Qa, 09 August 2011 - 05:50 PM.

[Námo]

I don't really understand how this has anything to do with multiculturalism Nàmo, This is a social and economic problem.

In short: Multiculturalism does also create social and economic problems, but it's real downside is that it eats away the social capital, so that social cohesion and civil society deteriorates, making problem-solving between various ethnic groups difficult through a democratic process of dialog. Thus paving the way for ultimately solving social problems through violence.

I'll be happy to elaborate on this ultra-short explanation later, referring to some the extensive scientific research related to this topic ... but as multiculturalism has been propounded and implemented by most European politicians for several decades now, it's really just to look out your own windows, and acknowledge the problems that this ideology creates. The policy of "don't see, don't hear, don't speak" does not make those problems go away.

Anyway, whether we see multiculturalism as the root of those riots, or attribute them to conservatism or socialism or whatever:

The responsibility for those criminal acts of arson, looting and rioting rests in my opinion solely on all those thugs, for each and everyone of them individually. They all have the choice of not joining those others behaving like psychopaths. No excuses. Accordingly, they should be held responsible.

... and BTW, according to BBC today, not a few of those detained did have jobs, even good ones like graphic designer and the like. And not all of them were just "youth".

Just because he was a violent nutjob doesn't mean his ideas weren't grounded in reality.

He was an extreme narcissist ... His "reality" is virtually non-existent and should not be taken seriously.

I'll disregard the "..." as I see that as your personal ranting (i can only quess, and if you've read some of his 'manifesto' he did quote a lot of different persons, like Gandhi, Shakespeare and John Stuart Mill to name a few); I've read Norwegian media a lot after 22/7, and as far as I know he was a psychopathic loner.

However, since you bring up Breivik in connection with multiculturalism (and thus also political correctness, aka. cultural marxism), I'm sorry to inform you that those ideas, which he had stolen from the counterjihad-movement, sadly do have a factual basis in reality, even in Norway:

From RT: Expert say Multiculturalism is to blame for 22/7 in Norway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ll-STT2pLY

[Personal note on this: Breivik, and he alone, carries the full responsibility for his heinous deed; this can in no way whatsoever be justified by his youth, society or other factors. The blame, the shame, and the punishment must go to him.]

"Cultural enrichment" - cultural/religious sanctioned rapes in Oslo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_rHFKRwv5Y

As I said, of lately I've followed Norwegian media more closely than I used to, and I all fairness there hasn't that much of the "blaming-game" in Norway, at least if you compare to Danish and especially Swedish media, which has been in overdrive to exploit this tragic massacre for political profit - I detest this "Don't let a good crisis go to waste" mentality, be it in relation to riots in England or mass-murder in Norway - so thanks to Norway for behaving with dignity.

I hope you will have an open and honest debate in the future (a 'more open and democratic society' with Stoltenberg's words), also on all the problems of multiculturalism. Because, in the words of a Norwegian living in Sweden, ”Terrordåden har blottat ett djupt splittrat Norge” (article in Swedish language)

[Beowulf]

It's just a result of multiculturalism.

Are you stupid or just a bigot?

Violence and looting in Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol and Leeds. London north, south, east and west, in Hackney, Peckham, Croydon, Deptford, Clapham, Lewisham, Woolwich and Ealing:

And a riot spreading is surprising to you? I really hope not. I'll cite an example from the US like I've done before: the 1992 LA Riots. There was rioting in my area and I don't live anywhere near Los Angeles! Riots spread for one reason or another, usually it's sympathy towards whatever caused the riots in the first place.

[Pasidon]

Yea, a riot is the real-world equivalent of an online rage poll... it accomplishes nothing but the dumb are too busy venting to realize it. Karnataka, anyone?

[Caspa]

Keep watching. You'll not see any riots in Sunderland. We don't shit on our own doorstep and we'll happily stop anyone who tries.