48 replies to this topic

[Námo]

It's just a result of multiculturalism.

Are you stupid or just a bigot?

Are you a follower of the religion of Political Correctness, since you only give those two options? ... well, since you only gives me those to chose between, I'm definitely a bigot.

In other words, I'm a Dane, and I'm proud of my culture, and the society that it sustains.

According to various international surveys on social cohesion in various cultures, Denmark consistently comes out among the countries with the highest degree of social cohesion, often on the top of the list. This also means that we have a very high degree of democracy, as recently shown by an extensive research published by the University of Zürich [you might also reference the writings of scientists like Lawrence Harrison, Samuel P. Huntington, Ronald Inglehart, Francis Fukuyama, Alexis de Tocqueville, James W. Fox, Ralf Pittelkow and Peter Gundelach].

So, we have a culture giving us a high degree of social cohesion, and we're defending that. We reject multiculturalism as an utter failure.

Riots spread for one reason or another, usually it's sympathy towards whatever caused the riots in the first place.

The riots started in Tottenham, which according to wikipedia has this demographic composition:

Tottenham has a multicultural population, with many ethnic groups inhabiting the area. It contains one of the largest and most significant populations of African-Caribbean people. These were among the earliest immigrant groups to settle in the area, starting the UK's Windrush era. Soon afterwards West African communities - notably the many Ghanaians - began to migrate into the area. Between 1980 and the present day there has been a slow immigration of Colombians, Congolese, Albanian, Kurdish, Turkish-Cypriot, Turkish, Somalis, Irish, and Portuguese populations. South Tottenham is reported to be the most ethnically-diverse area in Europe, with up to 300 languages being spoken by its residents.

You'll get the same picture for many of the other places showing "sympathy towards whatever caused the riots".

The failure of multiculturalism is apparent not only in Britain, but in whole of Europe. Leading politicians are starting to break the taboo of "don't see, don't hear, don't speak" ... what we still need to see, is that the not only talk the talk, but actually walk the walk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRHfLayTOsw

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Update: Four days of riots, five dead. As one eye-witness said yesterday: "It's a war-zone".

Only 2 years ago the Norwegian blogger 'Fjordman' gave this warning:

Tensions have been building slowly beneath the surface for many years and sooner or later these forces will be released in the form of a series of devastating earthquakes, followed by some secondary political and economic tsunamis. Some of the structures that currently appear to be rock solid will collapse like a house of cards during this period and the political landscape will change considerably. What appears unthinkable today will appear natural or inevitable twenty years from now ... I would rank Britain as the Western European country most likely to first get a civil war caused by mass immigration and Multiculturalism.

source: Gates of Wienna: The Coming Crash

Edited by Námo, 10 August 2011 - 01:48 PM.

[Romanul]

But Namo, you say that multiculturalism works in Denmark and that it doesn't work in Europe.

Wut?

[Námo]

Denmark is a multi-ethnic society, not multi-cultural. There's a BIG difference.

Our society has strong core values, that immigrants are required to adopt to, not the other way around.

A multi-cultural society has NO core values, that's the very definition of such a society. In reality this meant, that such a society quickly looses it's 'social capital' and degenerates to having NO values at all, or in other words ... cultural and social suicide.

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For those who claim, that poverty is the root of all this evil, there might be some hope for Britain after all:

Africa to send troops, food parcels to UK as riots spread

ETHIOPIA. The African Union today adopted a unilateral resolution to deploy army troops and care packages to England as looting and violence spread from London to other major cities. Spokesperson Charity Khumalo said “We can no longer stand by while these savages tear themselves apart.”

The AU, meeting today in an emergency session to discuss the ongoing rioting in the UK, has declared that they will do “everything in their power to help bring civilisation to England”.

“It’s just so sad, you know?” said Khumalo, speaking from the organisation’s HQ in Addis Ababa. “Sitting here and watching them on TV while their society implodes. We cannot in good conscience remain idle and let it happen.”

The AU has announced a range of initiatives that Africans can get involved with to help alleviate the misery of the English.

“For instance, we have launched an ‘Adopt an English child’ programme,” Khumalo explained, showing journalists brochures featuring the faces of English kids. ... The organisation also plans to air-drop care packages on major UK cities.

Source: HAYIBO.COM

[Námo]

Time Magazine cover; title says it all:

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Michael Coren: “Cameron, an emasculated man”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ere21Bz0Rh0

Coren is sharp as usual. Furthermore he has an intimate knowledge of Tottenham, where it all started, having been raised there as child and teenager. It's all about values.

Edited by Námo, 11 August 2011 - 04:32 PM.

[Allathar]

Denmark is a multi-ethnic society, not multi-cultural. There's a BIG difference.

Our society has strong core values, that immigrants are required to adopt to, not the other way around.

A multi-cultural society has NO core values, that's the very definition of such a society. In reality this meant, that such a society quickly looses it's 'social capital' and degenerates to having NO values at all, or in other words ... cultural and social suicide.

Well said. Over here it seems like we have to adopt to the immigrants instead of the other way around, at least with the previous governments. Fortunately, the current government has much better common sense with these issues now, probably thanks to Geert Wilders' Freedom Party.

[duke_Qa]

If people were wise enough to say that they accept multi-ethnicity but don't accept PC-multiculturalism, there would have been much more agreement on the topic. If people said "No Wahhabism in Europe!" instead of "no Muslims in Europe" I think it would have gotten a lot more traction.

I also think that Norway has a consistent focus on keeping our primary culture primary. We don't allow hordes of people to immigrate and people are taking up topics about ghettofication of Oslo and other cities. It just is that we don't really want to make it a populistic topic for the right-wingers that would polarize society(both muslims and ethnic norwegian scum of the Mass murdering sort) more than necessary. Basically, Sneak-attack cultural integration.

Edited by duke_Qa, 11 August 2011 - 07:15 PM.

[Námo]

If people were wise enough to say that they accept multi-ethnicity but don't accept PC-multiculturalism, there would have been much more agreement on the topic.

I agree, in principle, and multi-ethnicity in a limited degree can be an enrichment for a society. But multiculturalism has sadly become a central part of especially the Left's agenda the last decades, as a result of the intellectual elites increasing political correctness, or cultural marxism if you prefer that term. There are very close links in the development from the Frankfurter School and cultural marxism to modern day political correctness and multiculturalism. Sadly this ideology has somehow been accepted also by the vast majority of liberals and conservatives (in the European sense of these terms), at least until recently.

As I see it, this insistence on multiculturalism, and not just multi-ethnicity, is definitely intentional for the majority of politicians on the Left, and for most of the elite including especially all the political correct journalists dominating the mainstream media. This is not just an unfounded accusation, it's a personal experience. I've been a socialist for most of my long life, being part of this process (oh yeah, I'm guilty as hell) ... but not anymore, there's too much double standards on the Left now, or maybe it's just become too obvious.

The irony is, that the multiculturalists have ended up fiercely defending cultures, that are inherently mono-cultural and even racist and anti-semitic.

Relating to the present situation in Britain, this is in no small degree a result of the policies of 'multiculturalism on steroids' during the Blair/Brown regimes.

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BTW, I don't see anything wrong with populism, unless you claim that 'the elite' knows the best, and that 'the people' are too uninformed to gainsay those in power. It's called democracy, and on the the topic of mass-immigration 'the will of the people' have been completely neglected for decades.

Edited by Námo, 11 August 2011 - 10:23 PM.

[Námo]

The following report from the reliable SITE Intelligence Group is about the most disturbing news in the wake of the riots.

Many honest Muslims together with other good citizens have been trying to defend the their communities, like these:

There were many others like these, and three got killed in Birmingham.

Although those must be assumed to represent the majority of of Muslims in Britain, doing their best to integrate (although I fail to see how you can integrate into a multicultural society), it is a well-known fact that a very substantial minority of British Muslims are highly radicalized. The Tower Hamlets in Eastern London and places like the Finsbury Park Mosque in Northern London are hot-beds for Islamic terrorism in Europa, as shown in the very well researched Dispatches documentary Undercover Mosque and its sequel Undercover Mosque - The Return. A recent survey has shown, that more than 35 pct. of Muslim students on British universities want full implementation of Sharia law, for all British citizens [so, goodbye to multiculturalism, and welcome to the wonderful world of Wahhabi mono-culture].

In light of this the following news is rather shocking:

Would-be terrorists looking to capitalize on U.K. riots

NEW YORK — Islamist extremists are trying to capitalize on the riots engulfing Britain, calling on their followers to help incite further violence so that a terror attack can be launched amid the chaos.

Via “jihadist” websites, the extremists say English-fluent Muslims should infiltrate social media with messages that encourage the rioters so that the police remain “preoccupied” by the disturbances, according to the Washington-based monitoring group SITE.

The extremists are characterizing the violence as “useful” for London-based terror cells, saying the rioters are young and impressionable, and can be easily manipulated if the messages appear to be the sort of things they would write.

The extremists reason that by extending the violence, the police will drop their guard against jihadist terror planning.

[...]

“We are all Mark Duggan” and “The people want punishment for the killers of Mark Duggan” are among a string of slogans another jihadist site provides as examples it is seeking from English-speaking Muslims.

Other examples mimic typical slogans of the political left in Britain, such as “No to favouritism and austerity” and “The people want a dignified life.” Yet another — “A call for free people of Britain to stop racism” — is a clear reference to the fact Duggan was black.

[...]

Other sites call for English-speaking followers to post slogans directly, with one providing a list of Facebook addresses, mainly of prominent English soccer clubs, including Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool, and also of British universities.

One site expresses the hope that the riots will escalate to mirror the “Arab Spring” demonstrations that have swept the Middle East and North Africa, toppling some regimes.

“Just as they supported the Arab revolutions through Facebook and Twitter, and elsewhere, we want to export these revolutions to them,” this site says. “Enter their pages . . . and spread photos of their revolution and incite them to continue. Make video clips of their protests and heroic acts.”

“Those who are demonstrating are mostly young people, and it is easy to make use of their enthusiasm,” the site adds cynically.

In the absence of opening the way to a terror attack, efforts to encourage more violence may achieve other jihadist aims, according to a supporter of the jihadist entries. “One of the goals of this workshop is to exhaust the economy of the British government,” the supporter says, according to SITE.

Link to SITE, relevant report requires subscription.

With a budget deficit above 10 pct. and a national debt of 80 pct. of GDP, an imminent economic recession in the whole of Europe, and subsequent additional austerity measures in sight, this does indeed look like a very gloomy future for Britain.

[Námo]

It looks like a new war has erupted in England, just because one honest man has tried to state the obvious on BBCs flagship current affairs program Newsnight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAGTE_RGN4c

A whole army of political correct progressives are now ready to shoot the messenger, and then bury their heads in the sand, together with all the spineless politicians and the MSM. If England can't even take an open and honest debate after last weeks madness, the next riots are already looming in the horizon, and might become even more violent.

Merk Steyn nails it very precisely:

[...] [O]ne-fifth of children are raised in homes in which no adult works – in which the weekday ritual of rising, dressing and leaving for gainful employment is entirely unknown. One-tenth of the adult population has done not a day’s work since Tony Blair took office on May 1, 1997.

If you were born into such a household, you’ve been comprehensively “stimulated” into the dead-eyed zombies staggering about the streets this past week: pathetic inarticulate subhumans unable even to grunt the minimal monosyllables to BBC interviewers desperate to appease their pathologies. C’mon, we’re not asking much: just a word or two about how it’s all the fault of government “cuts” like the leftie columnists argue. And yet even that is beyond these baying beasts.

The great-grandparents of these brutes stood alone against a Fascist Europe in that dark year after the fall of France in 1940. Their grandparents were raised in one of the most peaceful and crime-free nations on the planet. Were those Englishmen of the mid-20th century to be magically transplanted to London today, they’d assume they were in some fantastical remote galaxy. If Charlton Heston was horrified to discover the Planet of the Apes was his own, Britons are beginning to realize that the remote desert island of “Lord Of The Flies” is, in fact, located just off the coast of Europe in the northeast Atlantic.

Within two generations of the Blitz and the Battle of Britain, a significant proportion of the once-free British people entrusted themselves to social rewiring by liberal compassionate Big Government and thereby rendered themselves paralytic and unemployable save for nonspeaking parts in “Rise of The Planet Of The Apes.” And even that would likely be too much like hard work. [...]

[Puppeteer]

Are you serious? You agree with his labels of black and white 'culture'?
I can't stand Starkey normally. And this is just disgusting. He claims it's a 'culture', but his foundation is the racial prejudice that white is right and black is crude. It's revolting! I completely agree with the other two, stunned guests.

[Puppeteer]

Double post.

One of my Facebook friends (an Oxford lefty) submitted this article to politicalpromise.co.uk. Great article surmising (and forming) by own opinions.
His older one on why trains should be nationalised is also spot on with my beliefs and observations, but that's neither her nor there.

[Ash]

Thanks for the well-wishing folks, although totally unwarranted as it happens. I was actually on annual leave and not even in the country when all this kicked off. They probably wouldn't have sent me anywhere hot, due to my being young-in-service and not trained in the riot gear. Nothing kicked off near where I live - the closest hot-spot was Nottingham. Sheffield, amazingly, saw no unrest at all.

All I could think of was the overtime I missed out on!

Then I thought bigger-picture. This will actually be proverbial money in mine and my colleagues' pockets. If this lawlessness gets more common, then surely policing budget cuts will have to be rethought. They are too aggressive; they want more bobbies on the streets yet they'll happily slash office/control room staff willy-nilly. Which naturally causes warranted officers (who cannot be made redundant as we are not technically employees in the normal sense of the word) to be all that's left to pick up the strain. Which actually has the reverse effect of putting more bobbies in administrative roles to clear up the paperwork, or means we have to do more of the clerical stuff that would otherwise have been completed for us.

This week of disorder should be capitalised on by the PolFed, ACPO and others as a sign that the government are taking a bigger risk than they realise. Theresa May's delusion that the cops can cope with the cuts will be severely dented as the economy rides itself into another recession (and it will, particularly when America and Europe both default - and they will) will be this coalition government's undoing. She and her cretinous partner in crime George Osborne are both still eager to push through their cuts in spite of all this. I just hope they're ready for the increase in overtime budgets as a reduced number of coppers and staff have to work more days off to cover backfills and actually have a chance to 'get out on the streets' whilst also trying to get on top of their mountain of paperwork. In light of that it'll probably end up more costly to have less cops! Not to mention the rise in crime and reduced confidence in the police's ability to police. Or the criminal justice system's ability to actually punish it (but then, that's always been there in this country).

For all I may deride Thatcher and her indefensible squashing of the working class she was actually smart enough to be a friend to the police. She knew she'd need them on-side when the shit hit the fan. This government, moreso even than the one before it, does not have the intelligence to realise that as people's pockets are squeezed drier by their appalling leadership and dreadful economic mismanagement people are going to be pissed. Including the police, given the media war on the police the government has incited. There was actually a police march again just last month. Sadly, I was working or I'd have gone. Thing is, the more discontent you have, the more protests and therefore the more unrest you'll get. This last set of riots admittedly wasn't political in the slightest - a few people kicked off and it was like a domino effect. The riots in London in March were political. The next riots will be, too, I imagine, as things just proceed to get tougher for everyman.

Those self-same pissed-off people and criminals also going to realise that they can actually get away with things like this given that they have the Human Rights Brigade and wishy-washy cretinous lawyers will get their sentences made more lenient. Fuck restorative justice. Put these lawless animals in cages and leave them there. It's all very well giving the offender the chance to say sorry but sorry doesn't repair damage, replace lost or destroyed property, restore confidence in society or heal the emotional anguish that comes from losing everything or having your home or business ransacked and your life violated and raped. I eagerly await the day that a top human rights lawyer or other associated do-gooder gets their home broken into and/or burned down. I wonder then if they'll be happy with a written apology, a £200 fine that will get paid out of their dole money and other assorted benefits at a rate of £3 a month and a 6-month conditional discharge, or whether they'd seek prosecution and punishment to the full extent of the law?

Scameron has been talking tough and trumpeting a tightening of the fist, which really is something that this country needs. However I figure that it's all just that; blowing the trumpet and telling people what they want to hear. Nothing will change. Nothing ever changes for the better. Unless, of course, you're a banker. In which case come step right up, Sir, Britain will take care of you.

The western world has been going down the shitter since the beginning of this millennium. It's about time we stopped kidding ourselves that life's peachy.

[Vortigern]

Ash and Puppeteer, once again I find myself agreeing with the both of you. And no, there was nary a whisper of disquiet in Sheffield, which was lovely because I was there at the time and really didn't have the energy to go looting. Decorating really takes it out of you.

Námo, normally I have plenty of time for your theories because they're usually well-researched and backed up with professional opinions, but on this one I have to say, you're way off. These riots have absolutely nothing to do with multi-culturalism, not even when you break it down to constituent elements. A man was shot, people got angry about it, it all got out of hand. That was the trigger. Puppeteer explained the more long-term causes above so I won't bother. All I can say to you on this matter is that it's very easy to judge when you're not stuck in the middle of it all.

[duke_Qa]

Very good article from that Alex Gabriel, it really sums it up nicely and in a way I find it very hard for anyone on the other side to refute. Also, very good to hear that you are alive and kicking Ash. Would have been boring if you got wounded this early in your career.

I really hope that when we get more demonstrations as we get more economic turmoil, politicians might start realizing that the system needs a revamp. You can't keep on sending all the production, primary industry and other jobs out of the west for a quick dime for the rich. They are fucking things up and they need to start looking at how to get the west back on its feet, or we will have a century birthday for the communist revolution that they won't like.

[Námo]

... it's very easy to judge when you're not stuck in the middle of it all.

Sometimes you see events more clear from a distance, and when you've watched them develop over an extended period of time. I see those riots from an European perspective, and they are certainly not unique; As I noted earlier, we've seen this before also in a big scale, and in a lesser scale it's becoming part of daily life in certain areas of many greater cities in Europe, which despite differences in national policies have on thing in common: multiculturalism and devaluation of cultural values, resulting in decay of social cohesion and civil society..

I haven't seen any convincing analysis refuting this, only the usual blaming game focusing only on limited political/economic aspects ... I'm not saying that these are not important, but those I've seen have at least one serious flaw: the failure to incalculate the huge costs of uncontrolled mass-immigration from non-western countries; but then, such calculations are of course a taboo in a multicultural society. However, such economic research has emerged the last years, from the independent Dutch NYFER institute, from the Danish Rockwool Foundation and from the Danish governmental administration. These studies only document the direct expenses for the state (tax revenues minus social benefits paid), but various other studies indicates that the total costs for the society may well be seven to eight times higher (disproportionate costs for education, health care, crime etc. etc.). The bottom line: the average life-time cost for each new immigrant from non-western countries amounts to well above 1 million British Pounds (conservative estimate).

So, on top of Britain's existing problems, a dysfunctional electoral system making it nigh impossible to replace the political establishment (be it left or right), a malfunctioning economy (national deficit 10% of GDP, national debt of 80% of GDP, and a deepening recession), and social cohesion declining, you have these bright prospects looming in the immediate future:

• Lots of illegal immigrants already in the country. Cameron is said to be willing to grant residence permit to all those, because there are so many, that the administration don't have the resources to process them all. This is just the beginning, a lot more will come as the 'Arab Spring' turns into an icy winter, see this post
  
• Costly demographics, i.e. steeply increasing demands for education, health care, housing and unemployment benefits.
  
  UK population grows at twice EU average: Migrant baby boom fuels 400,000 rise in one year (article based on figures from Eurostat)
  
• Cameron seems to have abandoned any possibility of upholding British law and sovereignty, by handing over political powers to the eurocrats in Brussels, for good.
  The 'trick for idiots' succeeds: Cameron says one 1975 Yes to the EU is forever

All I can is this: Good Luck ... I have family in England, and although they are living in a relative quiet area (around Hereford), they have now decided to emigrate.

BTW: In 2008, MP Nick Griffin predicted riots 'right across the map of the British Isles' within three years. As with his pre-7/7 prediction that Muslim terrorists would carry out bomb attacks in Britain, he has again been proven correct:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f02Au1nMeHc

Are all other English MPs really that timid, scared to be labeled 'racist', even if the political correct elite's misuse of the word have derived it of any meaning?

One final remark: I have made my statements, and I stand by them. In the words of a well-known British PM: "I fight for my corner, and I leave when the pub closes"

[olli]

It brought a smile on my face when I saw 2 blokes get locked away for 4 years each because they had attempted to organise riots on facebook. They organised the time and place and were going 'Smash Down in Northwich Town’ with planned looting and rioting. They deserve what ever comes their way in prison.

As a society, we have no time for any sort of attempt to create anarchy. No time for civil unrest. It creates tensions, anguish and fear. People do as their fucking told. You don't go and take things which don't belong to you. Some of the looters caught on video claimed "We're getting our taxes back!" (which they don't even pay..). They thought it was their god given right to take what didn't belong to them because they felt it was owed to them.

For once, we should have taken a leaf out of the States book. As soon as any sort of riots started, declare a state of emergency in that area and armed police/army (Police preferably, as the Army would undermine the Police authority) should be brought in. Issue a warning out to the would be looters and rioters that they have 1 hour to clear the street. After that, we're incapacitating and arresting anyone involved. If there is any hostility directed towards the Police with risk of injury, or any risk of severe damage to buildings and houses (i.e. Fire-bombs) then we're shooting to kill.

They'll soon scarper pretty sharpish.

[Caspa]

There's only two things about the riots that genuinely surprised me.

1. Just how quickly it all ended. I expected at least a decent fortnight of rioting and looting. I doubt this is the end of it though. With any luck, this will just be the prelude of greater things to come.

B. None of you bastards have accused me for instigating or participating.

[Pasidon]

We assumed, Cas. We assumed wisely...

The riot ended quickly because... well... civil uprising is like a furnace. If the fuel is crap, it won't burn long enough to cook the pork-chop. Metaphor mode: deactivate.

[Caspa]

I don't think that's right. There's more than enough fuel to keep that fire burning for years to come. Couple that with pure opportunistic greed and the riots should have never stopped.

[Radspakr Wolfbane]

Maybe apathy kicked in.