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#41 SpardaSon21

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 07:04 PM

What do these bombing run changes mean for Skirmish? What bomber will the factions use, and will it be the fully-upgraded version?

#42 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 07:51 PM

The point is that tanks are realistically pretty impervious to infantry if you are sensible, but you can't ignore stormtrooper fire indefinitely.

It's all relative: Ranger II and above arm A280s, which cut Stormtroopers in half, take fist-sized chunks out of AT-STs, and bounce off AT-ATs.

What do these bombing run changes mean for Skirmish? What bomber will the factions use, and will it be the fully-upgraded version?

Land Skirmish isn't very well balanced yet and the CSA doesn't have any units, so it's going to be disabled in the release. I really haven't even thought about which bomber each faction will use. It should be fully-upgraded like everything else in Skirmish though.

Let's see, if the CSA must use Y-wings, I'd be tempted to give the Rebels B-wings. That would likely leave the Empire with TIE Bombers. It's all subject to testing.

#43 Ghostrider

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 07:54 PM

That sounds promising--I always wondered where those guys with the tripod-mounted blasters had gotten misplaced to.



Oh - do you mean an E-Web team? That would be nice...

#44 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:19 AM

Well, not quite what I was referring to - there are other repeating cannons besides that one. To clarify, the E-Web is not in the mod.

#45 sargeantsandwich

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 12:46 AM

So many updates, getting more excited for the release...
"That meant that Ghostrider would more or less have to scrap the ground portion of the campaigns that were already finished."
So is everything in the General Veers... Prepare your troops for a surface attack news article still true of the Mod?

Edited by sargeantsandwich, 07 December 2011 - 12:48 AM.


#46 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 01:29 AM

Good question (although I was actually referring to the starting forces being scrapped in that line). No, that was just Ghostrider's stopgap measure for v1.1.

#47 Ghostrider

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:22 PM

So many updates, getting more excited for the release...
"That meant that Ghostrider would more or less have to scrap the ground portion of the campaigns that were already finished."
So is everything in the General Veers... Prepare your troops for a surface attack news article still true of the Mod?



Just to confirm this:
I have vaped the entire V1.1 land force and repopulated every planet from scratch based on PR's new mechanic.

Every land structure and unit has been overhauled and is different from anything you have seen before.

The old "Land Assault Patch" has now been retired and is not part of the mod - it was purely meant, as PR said, to provide a quick fix to V1.1 land. No part of this patch has been kept.

The V1.2 land force has been redesigned entirely around the news post that you have seen, bearing in mind the entirely new production mechanic.

Planets now can have fixed defenses and a huge range of structures, ranging from a number of different barracks, walker, crawler and speeder factories and various command centres that spawn a huge variety of army, mercenary, soliders, civilians, elite soldiers, criminals, outlaws, police, aliens, smugglers, rebels, imperials, harmless vehicles, war machines, clone wars relics, troop transporters, airspeeders, walkers and crawlers.
Structures spawn units until destroyed, giving defenders an edge in a protracted firefight, so your goal in V1.2 land is to find and destroy these buildings.

Sometimes it's not easy either. :blink:

In addition, there are up to 10 platoons of troops or vehicles on each planet, ranging from helpless urbanites running about screaming to.... :ohmy: ... assasins, heavily modified (upgraded) vehicles and other nasty stuff.

But you'll just have to explore each planet at a time to see.... :evgr:

Edited by Ghostrider, 07 December 2011 - 07:25 PM.


#48 P.O._210877

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:54 PM

The V1.2 land force has been redesigned entirely around the news post that you have seen, bearing in mind the entirely new production mechanic.

Planets now can have fixed defenses and a huge range of structures, ranging from a number of different barracks, walker, crawler and speeder factories and various command centres that spawn a huge variety of army, mercenary, soliders, civilians, elite soldiers, criminals, outlaws, police, aliens, smugglers, rebels, imperials, harmless vehicles, war machines, clone wars relics, troop transporters, airspeeders, walkers and crawlers.
Structures spawn units until destroyed, giving defenders an edge in a protracted firefight, so your goal in V1.2 land is to find and destroy these buildings.

Sometimes it's not easy either. :blink:

In addition, there are up to 10 platoons of troops or vehicles on each planet, ranging from helpless urbanites running about screaming to.... :ohmy: ... assasins, heavily modified (upgraded) vehicles and other nasty stuff.

But you'll just have to explore each planet at a time to see.... :evgr:


Good news! :) Is this true for space as well? Meaning do the space stations spawn infinite reinforcements? Do they hyper-in ships we can't have otherwise? Personally, I always thought that some ships like, but not limited to, the Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser, the Carrack-class light cruiser, Venator-class Star Destroyer, and other relics of the pre-imperial period, would seem to be more at home in a behind the scene role. It would clear some spots on the UI and allow the insertion of more units in the game. I know that you guys do not have access to all the models this mod needs, so clearing space for new units in this fashion maybe futile but it's a thought. Alternately, the older versions of ships still in use during The Dark Times, Victory-I SD for example, could be available only through stations spawning them and the later iterations of said ships would be buildable and upgradable normally.

In any case, you made my anticipation level rise from desperately WANTING to actually NEEDING to play your stuff. Please give it to me ASAP so I won't suffer from a serious mental and physical instability. :blink:

Keep up the good work and thanks for your efforts!

Edited by P.O._210877, 07 December 2011 - 10:56 PM.

If it's hard then it's worth doing.

 


- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.

 

Actarus


#49 Zeta1127

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:10 PM

There isn't any spawning of reinforcements to space stations, besides starfighter squadrons. You are in control of the entire Empire or Alliance, so where do spawned ships come from?

Edited by Zeta1127, 07 December 2011 - 11:11 PM.

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#50 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 12:12 AM

210877, this is a post on land. The mod is technically set in 18 BBY, when all those ships listed are prominent.

#51 Stormhawk

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 02:29 AM

Out of curiosity, what does a K-Wing bombing run look like? Does it really include all the various weaponry the K-Wing carries, including plasma torpedoes and slugthrower fire?

#52 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 03:12 AM

I subbed the plasma torpedoes for protons, which may or may not be temporary. I'd have to work out what plasmas would do in atmosphere; sort of an unprecedented case. Every weapon would fire, but only the first variant or so of each bomber has been converted to bombing run objects. This was a late change and I'm not exactly what value the game uses to determine which bomber is better to bring in, so better to keep it simple (and working properly) until we can test that.

#53 Ghostrider

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 07:59 AM

Meaning do the space stations spawn infinite reinforcements?
Do they hyper-in ships we can't have otherwise?

No - Golan Platforms have a limited, and finite, complement of fighters, bombers and transports.
Space stations do not hyper-in ships of any form. That's purely a vanilla construct.

Just to clarify, land structures spawn one or two platoons at a time, and only re-spawn once these platoons are destroyed, effectively giving them endless replacements. This only happens on land.

In space, once a complement is destroyed, there are no replacements.

Personally, I always thought that some ships like, but not limited to, the Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser, the Carrack-class light cruiser, Venator-class Star Destroyer, and other relics of the pre-imperial period, would seem to be more at home in a behind the scene role. It would clear some spots on the UI and allow the insertion of more units in the game. I know that you guys do not have access to all the models this mod needs, so clearing space for new units in this fashion maybe futile but it's a thought. Alternately, the older versions of ships still in use during The Dark Times, Victory-I SD for example, could be available only through stations spawning them and the later iterations of said ships would be buildable and upgradable normally.


The older Dreadnaught, Carrack and Venator types are prominent in 18BBY settings, and if you read the Thrawn books, Mark II Dreadnaughts and Carracks are pretty common, and that's over 25 years later.
My take on populating planetary defense forces/space fleets is that modern, strategic and otherwise important worlds quickly move away from older units to the classic "Imperial" model fairly fast, but the older/obsolete units can still be found in more remote places.
For example the CSA purchased several hundred VSD-I's from the Empire for its own defense needs and these are a common sight above CSA-held planets.

The only warships you will find in space are the ones I placed in the starting forces, plus any new ones that the AI decides to build.

#54 P.O._210877

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 08:39 PM

210877, this is a post on land. The mod is technically set in 18 BBY, when all those ships listed are prominent.


Sorry I got excited, I apologize. :blush:

No - Golan Platforms have a limited, and finite, complement of fighters, bombers and transports.
Space stations do not hyper-in ships of any form. That's purely a vanilla construct.

Just to clarify, land structures spawn one or two platoons at a time, and only re-spawn once these platoons are destroyed, effectively giving them endless replacements. This only happens on land.

In space, once a complement is destroyed, there are no replacements.


Thanks for the answer.

The older Dreadnaught, Carrack and Venator types are prominent in 18BBY settings, and if you read the Thrawn books, Mark II Dreadnaughts and Carracks are pretty common, and that's over 25 years later.
My take on populating planetary defense forces/space fleets is that modern, strategic and otherwise important worlds quickly move away from older units to the classic "Imperial" model fairly fast, but the older/obsolete units can still be found in more remote places.
For example the CSA purchased several hundred VSD-I's from the Empire for its own defense needs and these are a common sight above CSA-held planets.

The only warships you will find in space are the ones I placed in the starting forces, plus any new ones that the AI decides to build.



Well, I just had a different mechanic in mind,I'll do my best to mod 1.2 and illustrate my idea; as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. :good:

Edited by P.O._210877, 08 December 2011 - 08:40 PM.

If it's hard then it's worth doing.

 


- Alcor, Alcor pardonne-moi mais je ne veux pas que tu meurs. Je ne veux
pas que la planète bleue soit mise à feu et à sang par ces monstres. Je
me battrai pour les empêcher de détruire ce qui est devenue ma Terre.
Goldorak m'aidera. Au besoin, j'irai jusqu'au camp de la Lune Noire
puisque c'est là que Véga et ses monstres ont établi leur base. Et je la
détruirai.

 

Actarus


#55 Stormhawk

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 07:34 AM

What type of system is the Heavy Tracker's primary weapon, the artillery laser? Is it simply a laser with extreme range, or is it a true bombardment weapon like vanilla's Imperial SPHA?

And if it's the latter, does it replace the MPTL the ARR was equipped with in vanilla?

Edited by Stormhawk, 09 December 2011 - 07:36 AM.


#56 Ghostrider

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 08:37 AM

What type of system is the Heavy Tracker's primary weapon, the artillery laser? Is it simply a laser with extreme range, or is it a true bombardment weapon like vanilla's Imperial SPHA?

And if it's the latter, does it replace the MPTL the ARR was equipped with in vanilla?



The main armament on the Heavy Tracker is a turreted heavy laser cannon. The mark II upgrade boosts this to a light turbolaser, so it's just a large calibre conventional heavy gun on a repulsorlift base, and so can be built by any rebel speeder factory.

As to the MPTL, this is a fairly clunky unit that appears c. 0BBY and while it can deliver a massive strike, it's pretty vulnerable. It is not a standard unit and appears occasionally on planetary defense forces or as campaign starting forces. It is not available to build.

With Land 1.2, there is no "replacement of vanilla" units. It's just plain new. The MPTL is a rare unit now, while the HT is available from the start.

#57 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 06:15 PM

The Heavy Tracker doesn't have the capacitor bank or ability to stabilize in order to be a "true" artillery piece. The SPMA-T gets Deploy and Blast to acknowledge this specialization.

Rebellion Era Campaign Guide mostly marginalized the MPTL-2 when it priced it at 20k. Starships of the Galaxy says proton torpedoes (presumably lights) cost 800 each, so the cost of ammunition alone for the MPTL is 24k.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 09 December 2011 - 06:15 PM.


#58 Zeta1127

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 07:02 PM

Have you guys settled on how to deal with the oddities like the 2-M Saber-class repulsor tank? Personally, I would just make it the TX-130S Saber-class repulsor tank with the T variant as one of the upgrades.
"I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe." - Jango Fett
"You are fooling yourself, Captain. Nothing here is what it seems. You are not the plucky hero, the Alliance is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena."
"And that's not incense." - The Operative and Inara Serra
"What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet maybe. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look?" - Galadriel
Clone Marshal Commander Zeta 1127 of the 89th Legion
Admiral Zebulon Wilhelm of Task Force Mystic/Fleet Junkie

#59 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:07 PM

Sounds reasonable to me. The problem with the 2-M is its name, which just reeks of bad fanon. The Saber-class is one line and the Imperial-class is another. The former is from the Clone Wars and the latter was built almost exclusively for the first Death Star's ground complement. You can't make up some interwar variant that looks like a downgunned Saber and at the same time claims to be a pre-successor to the Imperial. Nonsense.

So it just hasn't been converted... one of the rare ones. If I had to, I'd probably rename it as a spin-off role variant of the TX-130T - perhaps an infantry support model with a big heavy blaster? It can't be used for a normal TX-130 unfortunately because the model doesn't match.

#60 Kitkun

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 07:03 AM

That's too bad. I was hoping for, though not really expecting, the TX-130 line. Heavily armed and armored and fast, but expensive? My kind of unit. (And the Clone Wars game it was in was actually a lot of fun.)
As for the 2-M, yeah, nothing but 'variant' makes any sense. Not unusual for a variant tasked with a completely different role to have a different name/designation, and now that I look closer at it, infantry support does look likely. Loses the power hog of the main guns for enhanced firepower on the turreted gun and what looks like quite a bit heavier armor. Loss in speed moderate to little despite the armor due to said removal of main guns. High-end hard counter to high speed light vehicles and a wall against infantry. Loses effectiveness against heavily armored enemies.
</nerd analyzing>

Anyways, my Wookieepedia skills fail me. What's this Imperial-class you speak of? Nevermind, Wookeepedia's search function is fail and lose. Now I see the problem with the name. I can't make sense of how it would relate to the 1-M, even going with the infantry support idea above.

Edited by Kitkun, 10 December 2011 - 07:14 AM.

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