8 replies to this topic

[Nazgûl]

While I wrap up Moria faction, and adapt to the latest movie, some questions have risen that I want to check with people that know the lore better than me. As far as I see, PJ have designed the orcs to appear like this;

 

- Moria is populated by vast numbers of goblins wearing armor.

- Goblin Town at High Pass is also inhabited by goblins, but of another breed and in lesser numbers, wearing no armor. Great Goblin is some sort of troll/goblin mix?

- Gundabad consists of orcs, not goblins. Alternatively "hobgoblins" (bigger goblins). In the movie, the warg riders do certainly look like orcs though, and not goblins of any kind. Azog is described as, and defenitely looks like, a large pale orc about the same size as a big uruk-hai

 

How well does this match the lore? 

[njm1983]

The lore never differentiates them to this degree. What I know of orcs and goblins is that they are all basically orcs. Seems to me pj just made it easier for viewers to identify them and where they are from by making them different looking.

If you use big cats as a point of reference in our world, there is lions, tigers, cheetahs, leopards etc... all with unique characteristics and their own subspecies.

Orcs seem to have a similar structure.

As far as I can recall in all references to gundabad there have only been mention of orcs. The term goblin has never been used.

[MattTheLegoman]

Nazgul, you have got it "movie correct" as far as I can see. (I have both WETA Art & Design books now.) Azog is seven feet tall but I do not know how big the Uruk-hai of Isengard were.

 

Another few movie things is that the Wargs are allied with the Orcs of Gundabad and not the goblins of Goblin Town.

The White Warg is the matriarch of the wargs and as tall as Azog.

 

Stone Giants are roughly under 140 metres tall. Standing, they would fill an entire BfME 1 castle.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

Film-correct yes, but somewhere around it's stated explicitly that there's no difference between orcs and goblins, as after The Hobbit, Tolkien decided to exchange the use of 'goblin' to 'orc'. As such, 'goblin' is not used in The Lord of the Rings.

[MattTheLegoman]

I suppose there is no real difference in kind, they are all corrupted elves bred into these demented and now pitiless creatures of hate. The differences we are making are in where they live.

• If they live in Goblin Town they have translucent skin and horrible skin diseases and disfigured bodies and speak normal English (to represent Westron).
• If they live in Moria they have dark skin and wear armour - we have only heard them make shrieking sounds.
• Orcs of Gundabad have dark skin but are taller and bulkier, but one particular orc is pale skinned.

There is so much variation between the various orc communities. Because we have three names for an orc (Goblin, Orc, Uruk), two used interchangeable in the books, we will use Goblin for the communities that had smaller breeds of orcs. And Orcs for the larger orcs. And then there is the Uruk-Hai of Isengard and the Uruk-Hai of Mordor.

Edited by MattTheLegoman, 19 May 2013 - 04:52 AM.

[Nazgûl]

Great imput guys! Thanks, makes it easier to decide on what goes where and why =)

 

Matt, by "both" boooks - do you mean one book for LOTR and one for Hobbit? Where can I get them? 

Edited by Nazgûl, 19 May 2013 - 10:23 AM.

[MattTheLegoman]

No, ;p I only have the two for the Hobbit.

Art & Design

Creatures & Characters

 

I got mine in my local large shopping centre's book shop.

[Bofur]

He means both weta books on the Hobbit. They're on Amazon.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

I envy you. SO MUCH.