26 replies to this topic

[Nazgûl]

This is the (updated 2015-12-22) unit roster for Erebor...

 

- Khazad-dûm Veterans Limited elite anti hero unit. *pending v/s Erebor Grim Hammers*

 

- Erebor Grim Hammers Heavy infantry chock unit, wielding two handed mattocks. Can switch to swords, axes and shields! Strong vs Monsters! Requires Armory & Heavy Armor tech.

 

- Erebor Royal Guard Limited Elite anti hero unit, wielding spears and shields. Requires Armory & Heavy Armor tech.

 

- Iron Hills Soldiers Replacing the aweful "Warhammer" style vanilla models. Main infantry unit, wielding swords and axes with shields.

 

- Iron Hills Phalanx Replacing the vanilla "cartoony" phalanx model, wielding pikes (and hopefully shields depending on animations).

 

- Iron Hills Warriors Replacing the Dale Swordsmen as early game light infantry skirmish troops. Wielding swords and axes with shields. 

 

- Iron Hills Archers Replacing Axe Throwers as main ranged unit. Using crossbows.

 

- Iron Hills Goat Riders Cavalry riding rams (Dain refers to them as goats)

 

- Iron Hills Battle Wagons with Axe Throwers crew option

 

- Iron Hills Catapults

 

- Iron Hills Demolishers

 

- Dale Archers (& Swordsmen?) Spell Book summons and Battle Wagon crew option only.

Edited by Nazgûl, 22 December 2015 - 12:39 PM.

[MattTheLegoman]

Sounds like a solid unit roster.

 

A fanciful idea from me:

• Khazad-dum Veterans, their armour has geometric shapes and patterns, forged of Mithril with black obsidian inlaid. Their weapons are forged with runes along the blade.

 

 

I am interested in what the building roster is and if I can help with it with modelling. (should this be in a different topic?)

My guesses are:

• Erebor Hall (main barracks)
• Iron Hills Hall (secondary barracks/archery range)
• Forge/Workshop
• Thorin's Mausoleum (I was reading that at one point you wanted libraries to buy the hero powers, so this is a stab in the dark) =p
• Mine
• Mithril Mine

[Nazgûl]

I'll list the buildings tonight =)

 

Here's what the Khazad veterans look like, kindof. The image in lended though, from Dwarf Holds

 

[Valheru]

Everything in TDH is just incredible

[King Dain II Ironfoot]

I loved TDH especially their Dwarven Fortress and Buildings and also the details and great graphics for the Sodliers and eveyrthing,but I never really like the Skins for Dwarves themselfs,they always looked too Colorful and to many bright different colors I guess it just wasnt my taste!!

[King Dain II Ironfoot]

 I wondred is it possible to make Erebor Soldiers weield and Axe like this http://media.moddb.c...ldiers_Axes.pngwith their Shield from the Movie !While the Iron Hills Soldiers could wield their Movie Swords  http://media.moddb.com/images/members/1/762/761504/Iron_Hills_Short_Brought_Sword_for_Reagular_Infantry_Soldier.png (or even this http://i.imgur.com/wJ6Dus2.png ) with their Shield! And I hope the Spearman Unit for Erebor will have Shields http://i.imgur.com/OlDSdDQ.png 

And will Iron HIlsl have Spearman Unit like in the Movie and if you like a have an idea about Iron Hills Elite Unit to represent the 500 Elite Veterans from the Movie and they can be either limite nubmer of Battalions like 4 or Summonable via some POwer of Dain!

Edited by King Dain II Ironfoot, 13 June 2015 - 06:51 AM.

[Nazgûl]

AFAIK there are no swords seen in BotFA for IH units. Only phalanx (long spears) with shields?

 

In the first movie, most Erebor units seem to have swords, and some axes.

 

The Erebor spearmen will have that spear exactly and they could have shields. The problem is that the regular dwarf anims for spearmen does not support shields, so we probably have to bind them to another animation set that support shields.

Edited by Nazgûl, 13 June 2015 - 09:48 AM.

[Bofur]

There are loads of swords! Look closer in the "fall back to the barricade" and behind the shield wall.

[Lauri]

Yeah, swords are in high supply.

[King Dain II Ironfoot]

AFAIK there are no swords seen in BotFA for IH units. Only phalanx (long spears) with shields?

 

In the first movie, most Erebor units seem to have swords, and some axes.

 

The Erebor spearmen will have that spear exactly and they could have shields. The problem is that the regular dwarf anims for spearmen does not support shields, so we probably have to bind them to another animation set that support shields.

90% of the Iron Hills Army used Swords!!All had Spears and Swords and behind the Shield Wall only 1-2 have Mattocks and all other use the first swords I showen you!! Yeah I have been told about the animation problem,hmm is it possible to use Gondor Spearman Animation!?  

About Erebor well in the fist Movie you are refering to Battle of Azanulbizar where there were like 7 Armies of the Dwarves or only Erebor in the movie but ravished desparate army fighting wuith whatever they can as said PJ to show how desparate was the Battle for the tired Dwarves!!But when they Showed Erebor in the epilogue during their Might no Erebor Soldier had Sword on their hip but we saw them using Spears and Axes!! So i think Exes are for Erebor while Short Brought Swords are for Iron Hills!

Here is a Gallery http://imgur.com/Peb...jj9iBbL,EOmcMEJwhere you can see that really over 90% use Swords amd wear them when they are coming while only few used the Mattocks http://i.imgur.com/UhjI4G2.png and no one used an Axe!!  

Edited by King Dain II Ironfoot, 13 June 2015 - 11:18 AM.

[Bofur]

The really obvious bit is behind Dain, just after Thorin says "We're going to take out their leader".

[King Dain II Ironfoot]

Yup!!Swords are everywhere!!And can be clearly seen

[Nazgûl]

Oh what do you know, I didn't notice that (about Iron Hills drawing swords).

 

I was refering to this about Erebor and swords...

 

[King Dain II Ironfoot]

I know about Erebor, but I.wrote the reason for them but still.it's fine for them to have swords and axes bit Iron Hills should have Swords and Spearman Unit in my opinion at least! :-)

[Nazgûl]

I am having some problems trying to figure out how to set up this faction, since the new Hobbit movies came out, and the focus came upon Iron Hills. I want those units to be the pre dominant of the faction, but I still want Erebor to be present as well. The reason for the switch to IH theme, despite being Erebor faction is simply cause:

1) The movies portray IH units in BotFA a lot more than Erebor was in AUJ.

 

2) By the time of the War of the Ring, Dain ruled the mountain, so it makes more sense that his troops should be the most common.

3) I spent a lot of effort on the IH model, so I really wanna exploit it I love NewErr's Erebor model, but it is now present in several other mods and thus less unique for SEE.

But I still want Erebor present too, so how do I do that and come up with a logical unit roster where both cultures/styles are present? I edited post #1, but I am not certain yet how I want it...

[MattTheLegoman]

Iron Hills as the staple and Erebor units as the elite looks good. I'm still up for creating a unique Iron Hills or Erebor Barracks, perhaps the elite units could come from it?

I will say to limit the Dwarven cavalry to one battalion, they are very limited in the movie and against the lore. Battlewagons can stay as they are, I suppose.

Iron Hills Ballista, if created, would be a campaign only unit. The Dwarves would be better with the vanilla catapult for destroying structures.

Are there any suggestions for special units to do with guarding King Dain?

Edited by MattTheLegoman, 23 December 2015 - 11:37 AM.

[King Dain II Ironfoot]

The thing is that inded Erebor Soldiers are less shown but since it was only Prologue so sadly they had small time. :(

 

About the Dwarven Cavalr I agree that it should be limited but not to 1 at least 3 or even 4 Battalions will be enough of Medium Ram Cavalry after al lthey were around 500-600 Riders in the Movie.

 

The Ballista should be made as War Machine but not only Campaign,the Catapults will be agaisnt Buildings while the Ballista Moderate DMG to Infantry but qquite slow begin made of Solid Metal and really weak against Cavalry Units and may be even LImited to let's say 5 Ballistas! I think all this will Balance them.

 

I agree that Erebor during War of the Ring was ruled by Dain and many IHs Dwarves moved there,but still a good Number of them stayed in IHs and it became like a Colony or Fiefdom to Erebor and there is even specualtion that Thorin III Ruled it as Lord there from his Father Name. So this suggests that IHs Maintained a Small Garrison or Military COntingent for Defense... All this suggests that tere can be Spell that Unlocks IHs Reinforcments-Swordsman,Spearman,Crossbowman,Chariots,Ballista but all this limited to like 4 Battalions or 3 of Soldiers and etc for the others...but the Main Army should be Erebor's,and to make Erebor look different than Erebor Under Thror around 171 years ago and yet to not look like IHs and be uniqe,I suggest some kind of Variation or Change of the AUJ Erebor Armor,like slightly Different Color Sheme or something like that,to show that Dwarves Remembers their Roots and respect the previous days and we know Dwarves care for heritage and all,I belive this will be really great and we can have Erebor - Guardian with Shield and Axe,Spearman with Shield,and Archers or Axe Throwers to keep one really unique EA Unit which I quite like,but Erebor Units can have diffferent Bonuses to the IHs Reinfrocments...and the Elite Unit can be something like "The Iron Guard" or "Iron Legion" which cane be Dain's Guard.Soldiers with Variation of IHs Armor with more Gold/Yellow Color and wiedling Two Handed IHs Mattock and toggle with Shield and Sword,while the other Elite Unit can be the Grim Hammers...

 

I hope this can be of some use.

 

Greetings to all.

[MattTheLegoman]

TL:DR Please get a grip on sentences so I can appreciate your posts. =p

 

Here is a spreadsheet Dain and anyone can go nuts on with organising ideas to post here.

 

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

 

 

Anyway, I'm going to suggest that the faction stays with the name Erebor. It is a more important location than the Iron Hills.

 

The unit list can stay the same, with the Iron Hills as the backbone of the armies of Erebor. With special units, elite battalions and heroes from Erebor.

 

 

Dale:

• No Dale swordsmen, except for banner carriers for the archers. The archers should be powerful and could arrive at level 2 since they will be staying for longer than the vanilla game's time limit. Similar to how in The Dwarf Holds the Archers of Dale arrived with a mini-hero who was a swordsman. Simplify what they had.
• I suggest Dale Horsemen as another summons.

Iron Hills:

• Iron Hills Warriors and Iron Hills Soldiers are too similar in name. You can have Iron Hill Skirmishers as the cheaper alternative to Iron Hill Warriors.
• Non-lore stuff like the Crossbows and Goat Riders are fine because they are in the movies and in the concept art. And they look lovely. Limit them so that the Dwarves have to rely more on their human allies, which is in keeping with the lore. Do a good check of Namo's work on the Dwarves.

Dwarven Forge:

• Ballistas are another large project, so I say to keep them in the back of our minds and plans for a possible campaign. For me that is like saying "Yeah, nah!", which is Australian for no.

Elite Units:

• Erebor Grim Hammers and Khazad-dum Veterans are fantastic! I would love for them to be in the mod.
• Nevertheless, Khazad-dum Veterans still need a design we can use. Do you have any concept art for Moria, my dear Dain?

Edited by MattTheLegoman, 23 December 2015 - 01:40 PM.

[Nazgûl]

I will say to limit the Dwarven cavalry to one battalion, they are very limited in the movie and against the lore. Battlewagons can stay as they are, I suppose.

Very limited? In EE they seem to be several hundered? 

 

Other than that, good points MTL. I agree about the ballista, and the balance of IH and Erebor units. I might have to add a separate barracks for either one though.
Khazad-dùm units are already done. Donated to us long ago.

 

The biggest problem I have now, is that visually the Erebor units differ a lot form Iron Hills, in style. I might have to redo my own version, even though I absolutely adore NewErr's work.

Edited by Nazgûl, 23 December 2015 - 03:00 PM.

[MattTheLegoman]

No need to recreate the Grim Hammers of Valaquenta. If they visually differ it is because they are unique and elite.

 

So are you going for an Erebor faction with Iron Hills as the base troops and Erebor as the elite?