28 replies to this topic

[Solais]

I really don't understand why people are whining that this game is too hard etc. because its NOT.

 

[...]

 

While I see myself as a veteran RA2 player I really don't think that i'm anything special[...]

 

Yes you are, you are a veteran RA2 player and as such, you can't even imagine what is it like to be less skilled than you.

 

This is something that crops up during testing as well, especially when it comes to some of our (I'm using plural here as to refer to the developer team I work for) most veteran testers and our oldest fans. It is a bias that comes with experience and being used to something.

 

Like... take this example: When you load up an FPS game; look at your hands: They are already positioned on the WSAD, and the other hand is on the mouse. You already know how a game controls because you're a -veteran gamer- . But try the same with someone who doesn't play games, like your mother for example. I'm sure she will have no idea what to touch at all! I recently had a similar feeling when I first tried VR games, and I had no idea how to control them at all.

 

This is a bias most people can't really notice at all, but it effects testing a lot; hence why we tend to get new testers whenever there's a new game to test (while keeping the old ones, as they often useful for more advanced information as they are usually more knowledgeable about the game mechanics).

[Eggrollz]

 

I really don't understand why people are whining that this game is too hard etc. because its NOT.

 

[...]

 

While I see myself as a veteran RA2 player I really don't think that i'm anything special[...]

 

Yes you are, you are a veteran RA2 player and as such, you can't even imagine what is it like to be less skilled than you.

 

This is something that crops up during testing as well, especially when it comes to some of our (I'm using plural here as to refer to the developer team I work for) most veteran testers and our oldest fans. It is a bias that comes with experience and being used to something.

 

Like... take this example: When you load up an FPS game; look at your hands: They are already positioned on the WSAD, and the other hand is on the mouse. You already know how a game controls because you're a -veteran gamer- . But try the same with someone who doesn't play games, like your mother for example. I'm sure she will have no idea what to touch at all! I recently had a similar feeling when I first tried VR games, and I had no idea how to control them at all.

 

This is a bias most people can't really notice at all, but it effects testing a lot; hence why we tend to get new testers whenever there's a new game to test (while keeping the old ones, as they often useful for more advanced information as they are usually more knowledgeable about the game mechanics).

 

 

IMO like I already said: before someone starts playing MO (Or at least the campaign) he should play vanilla RA2 + YR first because they are better for learning the basics of this game and MO as a mod is more for the people who have played RA2 and YR before (You cant even play MO if you don't have RA2 and YR) that's why I find it more reasonable that the missions will be harder in MO since the player already played the vanilla ones and that completely makes sense.

 

What you said about RTS games is not really correct in 100% because the fact that RTS games have -+ the same buttons like WSAD and a mouse doesn't mean that they still plays the same, Half life for example is not like Rainbow Six and if you find Half life easy it doesn't mean you will find Rainbow six easy as well even though the keys are more or less the same.

[Damfoos]

Do you really think the majority of MO players (those who complain about the missions) never played RA2&YR before and thus are completely new not only to MO gameplay but to RA2 gameplay in general?

 

You are so much wrong here. 

 

MO missions are difficult not because they involve completely new mechaincs, but because they have almost no room for any mistakes. I'm fine with it on Mental and even on Normal, but Easy should be easy, not YR Hard (or at least not more difficult than YR Hard). MO missions have nasty surprises, ambushes which you CAN NOT predict and they require much higher concentration and APM than vanilla RA2&YR missions. Add here unadequate mission timers which require you to act really fking fast while you still have to repell ruthless enemy attacks, AI which blatantly cheats and the fact that your resources are often limited (from ore to number of units available). And by the way, on "Easy" I've completed most of the missions you've mentioned (except maybe 2 or 1), so it's not like I've loaded the first mission, failed it and went complaining to the forums. And I'm not new to YR or C&C either.

Edited by Damfoos, 07 July 2016 - 01:13 PM.

[Eggrollz]

Do you really think the majority of MO players (those who complain about the missions) never played RA2&YR before and thus are completely new not only to MO gameplay but to RA2 gameplay in general?

 

You are so much wrong here. 

 

Actually what I was saying is exactly the opposite thing, most of the people who complain about the difficulty of MO's missions are familiar with the basics and have played the vanilla campaigns so I wonder how can they find large part of the MO missions (like the ones I mentioned in my earlier post) that hard even on easy :\

 

You mentioned that the first allied mission in MO is too hard because the AI throws so much stuff at you, well basically you are correct but after playing it the first few times you already know what the AI is throwing at you, when and where, after you know these things it gets MUCH easier defending the Pentagon and completing the mission (Also if you think more strategically you can easily re-capture the TR machine shop after soviet eng paradrops there to capture it and also capturing the soviet MCV as soon as it deploys making things even easier for you)

 

Pretty simple if you ask me, you just have to practice more if you find MO too hard for you or you are just naturally not good at this game and that's all, nothing wrong with that.

[brushpicks11]

I'm starting to get the hang of the game more. Still can't get passed the first mission on easy but whatever. I'm not going to try the missions anymore just gonna piss me off and I never see a reason to play a video game that just instill anger.

 

The skirmish mode however I'm able to do 3v1 on normal and beat it. I'm starting to see how to defend against certain opponents and what each faction's units are and their special abilities. My main complaint however was that in RA2 the missions taught you how to play the game. They taught you how each unit acts on the battlefield. I like playing missions that slowly increase in difficulty so the last half are very difficult while the first half are very easy and they are more of tutorial missions (even though they're not tutorials per say). 

 

I am enjoying skirmish and playing a new type of Yuri with my friend online I just hope the devs can make missions that don't just plop you in the middle of a warzone without explaining how any of their new cool vehicles and soldiers work. They spent so much time on developing this mod and I'm just trying to suggest a way for it to be adopted by so many more gamers out there, the casual kind who just like to kill some time

[CLAlstar]

With all honesty, i feel like most of people playing MO3.0 find it very difficult because they havent played 2.0. While its still harder than 2.0, i easily managed to get a hang on it. They expect missions to be of similar difficulty like vanilla RA2YR.

 

For people like those i have only one advice: stay strong and keep trying. Read unit entries on MO page, watch playthroughs, play without AI (yes, its possible), try playing with AI as allies, ask on forum if something is not clear. With time everyone will get a hang on it.

Edited by CLAlstar, 07 July 2016 - 03:55 PM.

[Graion Dilach]

It's still easier than the 2.0a AI, tbh. That has the toughest AI I can remember of.

[Solais]

I played 2.0, and I did find it much easier; though haven't managed to beat all missions.

 

The problem with the "keep trying" attitude that it's not really the... style of C&C games. I personally always played them casually, ever since I first played C&C1 when I was 6. (Wow, 20 years ago now.) I can try and try again, but I don't really find enjoyment in it, and I rather play other games. Which is kind of a shame, because I love the mod, it inspired me so much in the past, and it is pretty much responsible that I have a job in the industry; and I WANT to like it, but the game doesn't allow me to do that. It's a mod that doesn't allow people to like it. Too tsun, without much dere. :V

[Graion Dilach]

2.0a was a nightmare though, which needed to be cut back a bit from b onwards. It also went through the "too-hard-AI-on-first-iteration" issue.