1121 replies to this topic

[7th_Panzer]

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Creator: Some posts were moved here from other topic.
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Su-25 FROGFOOT. This is a plane, though similar to the A-10 Thunderbolt II, would likely be less effective due to meticulous design specs of the A-10 (heavy cannon, extremely robust design, good flight characteristics for its role, interchangable parts). Would probably be used for ground attack, armed with rockets and napalm. (GLA? different weapons for different generals?)

MiG-25 FOXBAT. When this plane first emerged in the 60s, it proved to be a complete shock and total nightmare for Western strategists. With very quick acceleration and unprecedented flight characteristics, it was designed as a bomber intercepter. However, it was plagued with troubles. In particular, its very short range cancelled out much of its advantage. An improved version, the MiG-31 FOXHOUND, is still in service (*cough*upgrade*cough*) (GLA air interceptor, but clearly inferior to the Chinese MiG and the F-22)

MiG-29 FULCRUM. One of only two planes that the Russian pilots call their planes by the NATO callsign, the other being the BEAR bomber (the Soviets did not assign nicknames to their planes). The FULCRUM, on paper, is a superior plane than the F-15 or F-16, but in every encounter, the MiG-29 has fallen short (no pun intended). It can carry a wide variety of stores, however, and would be useful in a wide variety of roles. (GLA jack-of-all-trades?)

YAK-38 FORGER. VTOL aircraft, similar but likely inferior to the Harrier.

The Mi-24 HIND and Ka-50 WEREWOLF could also be added to the GLA and China, respectively. The Mi-24 in particular would be useful for the GLA as it carries heavy weaponry, 8 troops (in real life) and is heavily armored.

Edited by Creator, 25 September 2005 - 10:12 AM.

[M.E.C.H.]

The hind idea is old... and the KA-50 WAS MINE IDEA !!! But nobody answered... So i stopped adding new unit suggestions cause i am sick and tired of getting no answer on my suggests... So i let it go away

[Creator]

Su-25 ROOK (it is real nickname). It supress A-10 in speed and maneurability, but have less ammo load and range. When USSR and USA developed their gunships, americans thought that the main thing is range and ammo load and the main gunship weapon should be cannon; soviets thought that the main is maneurability and the main weapon should be missiles. So, they've got different planes adopted to different armies and different strategies.

MiG-25. It is legend about all troubles. For example, its "very short" range was 3200 km. For comparation: F-22 Raptor have range equal to 3000 km. But yes, it is inferior to modern planes. Mig-25 is nearly half of century old.

MiG-29. If somebody told you that the Russian pilots call their planes by the NATO callsign then he is wrong. Russians never use NATO callsigns.

YAK-38. It was experimental plane only. Later it was a lot of upgrades: Yak-38M, Yak-41, Yak-41M. The latest version (Yak-41M) had established 12 world records in 1987. Further development of VTOL planes was canceled because of high fuel consumption during take off and landing. They've decided to economy fuel.

MECH, there wil be NO any Ka-50 and Mi-24 in my mod. It is enough to arm arabs and chinese with russian weapons. I'm going different way. I've already replaced soviet SCUDs with arabic Hatf missiles for Assault general. How I'm going to replace Mig-19 with L-29. And it is not all. Later I will replace MiG-35 MFI with chinese Jian-10; Smerch launcher with A-100 or WM-80 and etc.

[7th_Panzer]

Perhaps my information is not 100% correct.

I;ll shut up from now on.

Partial apology to Creater - I've looked at the range on several websites, and the effective range of the MiG-25 varies from 500km to 1600km.

Edited by 7th_Panzer, 24 September 2005 - 01:14 PM.

[Pendaelose]

MECH, there wil be NO any Ka-50 and Mi-24 in my mod. It is enough to arm arabs and chinese with russian weapons. I'm going different way. I've already replaced soviet SCUDs with arabic Hatf missiles for Assault general. How I'm going to replace Mig-19 with L-29. And it is not all. Later I will replace MiG-35 MFI with chinese Jian-10; Smerch launcher with A-100 or WM-80 and etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have nothing against making new and unique weapons for the GLA, but I think it is rash to overlook that several of the real life counter parts DO USE old soviet equipment. Iraq had nearly 100% soviet weapons, thats where I personaly get the idea that GLA deserves some older Soviet gear, such as the hind or the T-80.

I think for the sake of gameplay much of the high end GLA gear should be salvaged/hand-me-down vehicles from China instead, much of the chinease equipment in Generals is inspired by soviet, but is not specificly based on real vehicles.

Keep in mind, WestWood is an american company and is kinda biased. Notice only USA had anything resembling real vehicles. (I think being full of shit is an american trademark, every body else us royalties)

[Creator]

Partial apology to Creater - I've looked at the range on several websites, and the effective range of the MiG-25 varies from 500km to 1600km.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The second number is correct. Effective range (a.k.a. battle radius) is 1600km. Maximum flight range is 1600*2=3200km.

I have nothing against making new and unique weapons for the GLA, but I think it is rash to overlook that several of the real life counter parts DO USE old soviet equipment. Iraq had nearly 100% soviet weapons, thats where I personaly get the idea that GLA deserves some older Soviet gear, such as the hind or the T-80.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm tired of this already. In lots of movies they explode soviet tanks, shot down soviet planes, in lots games they fight vs different enemies armed with soviet vehicles. It seems that the biggest evil in the world is comunists and if a game, movie or a book should have a bad ass then he have to be armed with something soviet. I'm tired of this stupid logic.

And yes, GLA is fantastic. Why should we look at what Iraq or Iran armed with?

Edited by Creator, 24 September 2005 - 05:47 PM.

[Pendaelose]

I'm tired of this already. In lots of movies they explode soviet tanks, shot down soviet planes, in lots games they fight vs different enemies armed with soviet vehicles. It seems that the biggest evil in the world is comunists and if a game, movie or a book should have a bad ass then he have to be armed with something soviet. I'm tired of this stupid logic.    

And yes, GLA is fantastic. Why should we look at what Iraq or Iran armed with?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Creator,

I want to try and explain that it is not an attack against you or russia that I look at giving old soviet equipment to the GLA... This post very quicky has grown longer than I meant, but I feel like I make several good points. This is not meant against you at all, I am actualy very sympathetic to your fealing and understand what you mean. My feelings are not at all based on anti-russian prejudice but rather just the world around me as I've seen it...

I don't buy into the Soviet terror propaganda that was spammed out in movies durring the Regan years... you are absolutely right, it IS a simple minded view to think that all things bad are comunist and that every villian uses soviet equipment. It is also true that too many movies (Rambo, Etc) portrayed every villian carrying a AK-47 or flying in a Hind... this was/is propaganda... why does a battle master tank look like an old soviet tank? because of American Mass Media stereo typing. Not all of us buy into that. The generation before us lived in terror of each other... just 20 years ago you and I would have both been suspect of being spies and at the LEAST been arested by the CIA/KGB just for talking to each other. There are still ripples from that. You can see them in the stupid movies that you mentioned (I agree they are stupid and simplistic)

These ARE NOT the reasons I personaly look to the GLA as having older soviet equipment. I use Iraq/Iran as an example of thinking partly because I've been there. In my mind, when I hear a burst of machine gun fire, if it sounds like an AK-47, I get scared (Duh, I'm a USA soldier). I've had my upclose and personal encounter with the "GLA" and have a rather marked opinion about it... it is not the Trash equiped crap that Generals would have us all believe. I personaly don't villianize the weapons at all, but recognize that too many modern day villians have the weapons that were once soviet.

i'm not looking for another way to blow up soviet tanks... theres enough of that in movies and low budget TV shows. I am looking at the angle of I would enjoy GLA more if they braught forward a capable, well equipped army and faught back. Just like in the real world, if old Soviet equipment is the best way to arm yourself on a budget, then go for it. I'd love to gang bang a Chinees or american base with a variety of migs and tanks that don't look like trash. I think the old soviet gear is cool. I'd trade my M-16 for a Soviet AK-47 in a heart beat. (though the M-4 is very nice )

Also, keep in mind that I'm looking at OLD soviet equipment, not modern weapons of russia. Iraq DOES NOT have modern russian equipment and I don't think the GLA would either. I have no wish to, or interest in vilianizing or or in any other way down playing Russian equipment... as I said, I don't believe the crap propoganda put out in movies from the 80s... BUT if old 1980s USA equipment made up the bulk of modern day would-be armies than I'd be slamming the GLA full of old APCs, and Patton or Sherman tanks. I'm not predjudiced. I'd give them any equipment I think they would get there hands on.

If I do use a vehicle that to closely resembles, or is even modeld after a modern Russian vehicle I am glad to rename it. I had/have no objection to renaming the TOS because it is not my goal to use/re-use russian equipment, but rather I'm just looking for models that suit a need and style. If I were just a little better at modeling (mostly skinning) I'd be glad to make new weapons, but as long as the tank is performing a role similare to the TOS, expect it to look like the TOS. It has that apearance for a reason, it works. The Black Jack (can't remember the designation for it) and the B1 look alike because they had the same job, the Abrams and most modern tanks look alike because it works, etc...

at least for me, the desire to use soviet equipment for the GLA is not at all a personal attack against russia... I DO NOT group old soviet tanks/planes in with GLA crap. quite the oposite. I'm titred of the GLA looking like crap and would like to arm them the way a REAL middle eastern tyrant army would be... thats why I look to Iraq/Iran and want to copy that style... Old Soviet weapons and vehicles.

[Creator]

It is also true that too many movies (Rambo, Etc) portrayed every villian carrying a AK-47 or flying in a Hind...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would be glad if all this shit would be in the past, but... But recently the new "Stealth" movie had been released. Americans fly on fantastic super fighters there and kill arabs, koreans and RUSSIANS! "Mirror Wars" is the same. And it is not all. Now they plan to make another movie about Kursk Battle of WW2. A man who was invented in USA as weapons consultant had published brief script on gspo.ru forums. Once again they plan to offend russians. Look at this from the other side: russians offend no americans neither europeans. Only americans love to pour everybody with shit (not russians only, but also chineese, koreans, arabs and etc). And the worst thing is that a lot of people try to imitate them.

I am looking at the angle of I would enjoy GLA more if they braught forward a capable, well equipped army and faught back.  Just like in the real world, if old Soviet equipment is the best way to arm yourself on a budget, then go for it.  I'd love to gang bang a Chinees or american base with a variety of migs and tanks that don't look like trash.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that the most players are tired to see MiGs and T-series tanks. In fact, arabs have an array of their own weapons:
Pakistan: Hatf, Ghuri, Shahin and Tipu strategic missiles.
Saudi Arabia: Al Fahd APC and Al Hussein tank.
Egypt: Fahd-240 APC
Iran: Tosan tank, Saeqeh-80 and Shafaq fighters and etc.

http://www.globalsec...ran/weapons.htm
http://www.globalsec...ypt/weapons.htm
http://www.globalsec...ulf/weapons.htm

By the way, Egypt have Abramses. Pakistan have M-60 tanks (and maybe Arbramses too). Why don't to give Abrams or M-60 tank to the GLA?

Edited by Creator, 25 September 2005 - 10:13 AM.

[M.E.C.H.]

It is also true that too many movies (Rambo, Etc) portrayed every villian carrying a AK-47 or flying in a Hind...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would be glad if all this shit would be in the past, but... But recently the new "Stealth" movie had been released. Americans fly on fantastic super fighters there and kill arabs, koreans and RUSSIANS! "Mirror Wars" is the same. And it is not all. Now they plan to make another movie about Kursk Battle of WW2. A man who was invented.......have Abramses. Pakistan have M-60 tanks (and maybe Arbramses too). Why don't to give Abrams or M-60 tank to the GLA?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Creator i can understand you ! IM GREEK YOU KNOW ! My country was/is/will be always in war.... with the TURKS ! I know that in the most of the movies are showing russian terrosrists !
But keep in mind that its not always like this ! The americans are the terrorists, they invaded in the whole world for their own purpose ! And not to keep the world safe from terrorism... also i agree with the AK-74 and the HINDS... In every movie that shows terrorist they are armed with russian weapons.... Whatever i HATE americans.. they are making our life here (GREECE) SHIT !!! They are always armung the TURKS with their weapons.... and when we (GREECE) are trying to buy weapons from RUSSIA like the S300 (It happened a lot of shit stuff here, when we tried to buy S-300's cause americans wanted from us to buy patriots and not S-300 and you know what ? S-300 IS THE BEST ! Thats why the americans didnt want from us to buy those ones.... And what did they did ? They said to TURKS to say to us that if we buy S-300 then they will start war against us !!!!! For god shake ! They will start war to us if we bought S-300...... I HATE AMERICANS..... Not all of them just those who think that they WILL CONQUER ALL THE WORLD ! If they think that they will conquer all the WORLD then i say to them try to engage war to RUSSIA or CHINA ! In a matter of hours the America will turn to dust !)
Now lets return to the topic... i think that it is not bad if we put more russian weaponry to GLA ! And it is not bad, cause... well its just not bad ! I think that it will fit very well ! So dont get angry ! !
We all know that RUSSIAN's are far away on technology... HERE IN GREECE WE ALL KNOW THAT... Think about : S-300, Berkut, also they first invented the STEALTH airplane ! And what happened ? The americans stole the plans and the blue prints and they constructed it first ! So Russia is far away ! America just have more high tech stuff... but when it comes to war ! they have silly soldiers and clever weapons !

[Creator]

also they first invented the STEALTH airplane ! And what happened ? The americans stole the plans and the blue prints and they constructed it first !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No. First stealth plane had been invented by americans in 1986. It was F-117 fighter-bomber. It was stealth during 5 years. In 1991 USSR rearmed its army with new radars that can detect stealth units. Nowdays stealth is only advertisment trick. All modern radars (american, russian and european) can detect stealth.

Edited by Creator, 25 September 2005 - 12:31 PM.

[Pendaelose]

Wow, thats alot of USA bashing for the most part I agree though, you guys are not in the wrong, but don't let generalizations blind you to indeviduals. Mass media does no one justice, least of all its target audience, who hates it just as much.

I would be glad if all this shit would be in the past, but... But recently the new "Stealth" movie had been released. Americans fly on fantastic super fighters there and kill arabs, koreans and RUSSIANS! "Mirror Wars" is the same. And it is not all. Now they plan to make another movie about Kursk Battle of WW2. A man who was invented in USA as weapons consultant had published brief script on gspo.ru forums. Once again they plan to offend russians. Look at this from the other side: russians offend no americans neither europeans. Only americans love to pour everybody with shit (not russians only, but also chineese, koreans, arabs and etc). And the worst thing is that a lot of people try to imitate them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These are points I did not disagree with... in fact I totaly agree... but I don't think american's on a whole do it on purpose. I think americans are both ignorant and arogant. Not evil, just stupid. Unlike Europe Americans live pretty much in a world that is only american. we don't have Neigbors (Mexico and Canada don't count usualy, I could go on about why), we've never faught a modern war at home, and 99% of americans have never left america. To most americans there are no russians or chineese or koreans... only what you see in movies.

Like wise though, don't be predudiced... just because 90% of americans are pig headed morons, don't think we all are. There are other americans who, like my self, are sick of crap movies like stealth and would rather have a deep thinker over a "Block buster" any day. I don't watch TV... its too stupid and full of lies. When I do watch something its Japaneese cartoons (fan subtitled, not doubed) because american TV shows are too full of crap to even watch.

I know damned well that the rest of the world is not acuratly portrayed by money minded marketing experts who are activly designing movies to apeal to an audiance who thrives on pride in the own ignorance.

I think that the most players are tired to see MiGs and T-series tanks. In fact, arabs have an array of their own weapons:
...
By the way, Egypt have Abramses. Pakistan have M-60 tanks (and maybe Arbramses too). Why don't to give Abrams or M-60 tank to the GLA?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd love to see real arab tanks and planes in game... but without the moddeling means I can't make them myself and I use the models I can find.

I really don't even want to put a T-serries tank in... its to old. My suggestion was and still is use an old model BattleMaster. This way it is really a hybrid of every tank made after WW2 and before the Abrams, rounded turret being a key feature. (both T-80 and M-60 fall into this catagory)

planes and choppers are a slightly different issue... They are so damned recognizable. you pretty much have to choose a real design or it will look out of place. I don't think an F-22 or a F-15 could look in place with the GLA no matter what the facts behind it were. Older MIGS just seam to belong there to me. If anybody has good suggestions I'd gladly use them, but I'd need models to go along with...

... but when it comes to war ! they have silly soldiers and clever weapons !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

some truth in that... American polaticians are definatly war mongering hypocryts... but I also think almost any nation with the means would be. the USSR was NOT Passive or Gentle to its neighbors... nor has almost any other nation been that grew in power quickly. But I don't hate germans for WW2 or Russians because of the Cold war era... also don't judge americans by our polaticians... I doubt you'd apreciate if the same was done to you. Not to mention you can't judge a WHOLE people by a stereo type... no matter how well earned the stereo type is. The first 2 rules of stero typing are

1. There is an exception to every rule, even this one.
2. All generalizations are false, even this one.

side note:
American combat arms soliders to tend to be a bunch of gung-ho cowboys with no idea or care about the people of the rest of the world (silly is a good word) but they are very well trained and able to do thier jobs. I can vouch for this. Shiny toys help too. but keep in mind, no american solier ever chose where he was going to fight.

[M.E.C.H.]

Well i dont want to speak anymore.. i will just post to you a post that i posted in an other mod 1 month ago... when one american idiot offended us !
Here it is PLS READ IT ALL !

LOOOOOL ! You know what ? every American boy is bombarded by silly ideas like : WE CONQUER THE WORLD, WE ARE THE ONES (LOL, have you EVER saw FAHRENEIT 9/11 ??? You know what there you can find all the silly american stuff !!! There you can find the KING OF ALL ! The big the enormus the amazing : BUSH !!!! Hell yeah lets rock n roll !) You must be kiding... You rule the world and all of these young boys are dying in Iraq ? You have the most cutting edge technology and you didnt notice the Typhoon that hitted you ? When JAPAN noticed that 4 days earlier (when they had a similar typhoon) and noone died (just 5 men hitted (and those were the silly camera men !!!) Now dont tell ME who is the ruler of the world ! You are dying everywhere you go ! In Yugoslavia all of your commandos were dead by Yugoslavian ones that strike at your men's camps at night with only knives ! And you the mighty ones were having M60, M4... M436234572345725721 and you had all the technology with you... Many of the american soldiers died at Afganistat from an ex-CIA agent ! The famous Osama ! Then you attacked another teammate (your's teammate) SADDAM ! Did you all forgot ? The father-Bush was a very good friend with SADDAM, and also the OSAMA family is friends of the BUSH family ! All of the OSAMA family escaped America after 9/11 ! You can see all of that in just one movie !
PLS SEE <<FAHRENEIT 9/11>> !!! PLS !
Then you will hear words from your own soldiers at IRAQ saying : What the hell are we doing here ! We just killing inossent people..... but for what ? We didnt find anything ?
There (at the movie) you will see childer (Iraqi children) with cutted arms, with no burned flesh, with cutted legs ! For god shake ! You have all the technology ! You have smart bombs ! The best pilots ! You are the elite ! And you kill childern ??? Why ??? Pls tell me why is that happening ?
Thank you Hooligan ! Well MSpencer i think that you must be joking..... Everybody understands my post and you not ??? Why ? Is it saying something that you dont understand OR it says something that you DONT want to understand ? Well i live on Greece ! As all the world knows here in greece the things are really fucked up ! Turkish agents are invading military bases Turkish planes invading in our air lines.... Three men DIED in the hands of my father, when 3 turkish agents went onto a greek base and tried to sneak, then gunfire was on... 3 YOUNG BOYS LOST THEIR LIVES THERE ! Do you understand that ??? You think that you can Kill everybody ? Well everybody can kill you ! And everybody can kill us and them and.........
You think that you CONQUER THE WORLD ? Why dont you attack CHINA ? Hah get up one morning and say WE WILL CONQUER CHINA ! Before you say that your ass will be on flames ! And even if you defeat them (something that will never gonna happen) where will 1BILLION people flee ??? IN YOU !!!! Your economy will become worse than OF ALBANIA !
Then you thing you are strong ? Lets say you are ! When GREEK people were writting on paper you were doing : AHHHHH LAHAHHAHA (tarzan voice !!!!) So what have you done from the time that America was on !!! (And something else you are not americans the real americans are the indians ! That you were killed !)
Everywhere you went you destroyed and killed everything.... When ALEXANDER THE GREAT invaded Persia he conquered all the known world ! And he didnt destroy nothing although he builded more than 10 ALEXANDRIA's (cities with his name) and more than 80 cities ! He builded schools ! You bombard schools ! He builded bridges ! You destoy bridges....
Well you have done nothing and you have invaded the half of the world ! Not to mention that everywhere you went the most of your boys died !
Well im tired about hearing from Americans that they CONQUER THE WORLD !!!!!
Yeah and i CONQUER MARS ! (One suggestion play COMMAND & CONQUER to relax, before you CONQUER THE WORLD !)
Now someone close that topic pls ! Cause it is getting no sense !

Read this and you will understand me !

[prophet of the pimps]

W00t. The L29 was my suggestion.

PS: Have you modelled the L-29 yet.

[stack111]

MECH i believe you are generalizing too much
i love using other countries stuff, soviet equipment, when Red Alert first came out i was always the soviets, and i think communism has its benfits and faults, what i didn't like about the soviets was the abuse of power by each ruler

like Stalin, "the death of one is a tragety but the death of millions is a statistic" there is something wrong about that, but the quote is true

i can realize the difference of politics and propaganda from ordinary people who are just living

as soon as i get the chance im moving to spain, but im only 15 so i can't get ahead of myself

take a read at this and tell me what you think

OUR SAD LEGACY, THE RISE AND FALL.  I DON'T THINK I
>WILL BE AROUND TO SEE THIS PLAY OUT, AT LEAST I HOPE I
>WON'T BE.
>
>                              A Frightening Analysis
>
>We all know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of
>Colorado. In that context his thoughts are
>particularly poignant. Last week there was an
>immigration-overpopulation conference in Washington,
>DC, filled to capacity by many of American's finest
>minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor named
>Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book,
>"Mexifornia," explaining how immigration "both legal
>and illegal" was destroying the entire state of
>California. He said it would march across the country
>until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.
>
>
>Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D.
>Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to
>destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he
>described eight methods for the destruction of the
>United States. He said, "If you believe that America
>is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's
>destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation
>in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold
>Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and
>fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that
>all great nations commit suicide.'"
>
>"Here is how they do it," Lamm said: First to destroy
>America, "Turn America into a bilingual or
>multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows
>that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and
>antagonism of two or more competing languages and
>cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be
>bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be
>bilingual. The historical scholar Seymour Lipset put
>it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and
>bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are
>histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy. Canada,
>Belgium, Malaysia, Lebanon all face crises of national
>existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if
>not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided.
>Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces
>difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans."
>
>Lamm went on: Second, to destroy America, "Invent
>'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to
>maintain their culture. I would make it an article of
>belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no
>cultural differences. I would make it an article of
>faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are
>due to prejudice and discrimination by the majority.
>Every other explanation is out of bounds.
>
>Third, "We could make the United States a 'Hispanic
>Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate
>diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said
>in the Atlantic Monthly recently: 'The apparent
>success of our own multiethnic and multicultural
>experiment might have been achieved! Not by tolerance
>but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once
>dictated ethnocentrically and what it meant to be an
>American, we are left with only tolerance and
>pluralism to hold us together.'"
>
>Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep
>their own language and culture. I would replace the
>melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It
>is important to ensure that we have various cultural
>subgroups living in America reinforcing their
>differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing
>their similarities."
>
>"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic
>group the least educated. I would add a second
>underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and
>antagonistic to our population. I would have this
>second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high
>school."
>
>"My fifth point for destroying America would be to get
>big foundations and business to give these efforts
>lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and
>I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would
>get all minorities to think their lack of success was
>the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance
>industry blaming all minority failure on the majority
>population."
>
>"My sixth plan for America's downfall would include
>dual citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I
>would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress
>differences rather than similarities. Diverse people
>worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other -
>that is, when they are not killing each other. A
>diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most
>historical precedent. People undervalue the unity!
>Unity is what it takes to keep a nation together. Look
>at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they
>belonged to the same race; they possessed a common
>language and literature; and they worshiped the same
>gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic Games.
>
>A common enemy Persia threatened their liberty. Yet
>all these bonds were not strong enough to over come
>two factors: local patriotism and geographical
>conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece
>fell.
>
>"E. Pluribus Unum" ? From many, one. In that
>historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the
>'pluribus' instead of the 'Unum,' we can balkanize
>America as surely as Kosovo."
>
>"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits ~
>make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult
>of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to
>'heretic' in the 16th century- that stopped discussion
>and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'x!
>xenophobes' halt discussion and debate."
>
>"Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country,
>having established multi-culturism, having the large
>foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I
>would next make it impossible to enforce our
>immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That
>because immigration has been good for America, it must
>always be good. I would make every individual
>immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact
>of millions of them."
>
>In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped
>his brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said,
>"Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book
>Mexifornia. His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan
>to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be
>destroyed, don't read that book."
>
>There was no applause.
>
>A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud
>above every attendee at the conference. Every American
>in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was
>proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet
>pervasively across the United States today. Every
>discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languagesare
>ripping the foundation of our educational system and
>national cohesiveness. Barbaric cultures that practice
>female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate
>'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the
>Third World as corporations create a Third World in
>America ? take note of California and other states ?
>to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast.
>It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In
>that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry
>of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is
>slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."
>
>Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on
>everyone at the conference that our nation and the
>future of this great democracy are deeply in trouble
>and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration
>monster stopped within three years, it will rage like
>a California wildfire and destroy everything in its
>path, especially The American Dream.

I didnt write this (thats why it's in a quote)

Edited by stack111, 26 September 2005 - 12:54 AM.

[Monsunami]

Woah, all you guys are generalizing too much from what you see in movies. You can't judge a whole nation from what you see in movies. Amof, most movies are crap. They are usually just propaganda tools for producers (hollywood) to publish their bias. Plus you can't even trust news media these days, and some are posting blantant false info. That makes it hard to prove what you are saying when you are basing info on some news media.

Funny thing is that I am American living in America and all I hear is actual "American" people telling everyone how bad America(US) is. Never (okay maybe a couple) heard anyone (other than some media) that ever said America is the best or anything that makes America 100% good which I know is not (I have moved many times, different schools, and now 2nd university). All I hear is America bashing. Actually I am getting sick and tired of this, maybe they should get into politics and make some change instead of just talk/bashing.

Yah, I know America does some dumb and good stuff but putting your anger toward American is almost the same as saying every Chinese/Russian is a commie and and stupid. Is it not?

Hmm, maybe its the American's living in other countries that keeps saying some BS.

Anyway, yah, contra should include some special(well new) arabic weapons that was mentioned earlier. This would give contra that new feel from other mods that are using just outdated stuff for GLA. Also another mod (Mideast Crisis) made by some isotx(also makers of modtoaster) are using better arab weapons.

Edited by Monsunami, 26 September 2005 - 12:28 AM.

[Creator]

I think americans are both ignorant and arogant.  Not evil, just stupid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I agree. And I want to tell you what such ignorance is leading to. I live in Russia and I see that modern teenagers after seeing some Rembo-like movies become to hate americans. The most popular russian humorist is Mikhail Zadornov. The most of his jokes are about stupidness of americans. I oftern see such words as "americans are shit" on russian forums. In 20-30 years all these young guys (who hate americans now) will become adult. Some of them will become politicans. One of them will become president... I think you understand that americans are now digging grave for themselves (I don't mean a war, just future political and economical situation).

PS: The most big world evils are ignotance and stupidness.

I'd love to see real arab tanks and planes in game...  but without the moddeling means I can't make them myself and I use the models I can find.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll make some. As for modelling, year ago I was very bad modeller and the best I could do was to merge some models into one (similar to your defense foundations). Now you can see renders and screenshots of my last models. You will able to create models with the same quality after practicing.

American combat arms soliders to tend to be a bunch of gung-ho cowboys with no idea or care about the people of the rest of the world

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Strength without mind. It is dangerous.

There (at the movie) you will see childer (Iraqi children) with cutted arms, with no burned flesh, with cutted legs ! For god shake ! You have all the technology ! You have smart bombs ! The best pilots ! You are the elite ! And you kill childern ??? Why ??? Pls tell me why is that happening ? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was some collaterial damage. 40% of american losses were from friendly fire. In reality things go different way than in movies and advertisment.

Edited by Creator, 26 September 2005 - 12:40 PM.

[matador]

america is not bad, bush is an asshole.
why did they attack iraq?
because they got mass destruction weapons and people were killed by a dictator.
but every big country has mass destrcution weapons and it keeps the world in balance becasue they know if they start a war they are getting blowed up.^^
and wenn Saddam Hussein was dictator of iraq their died some people, but there were not terrorist in iraq because the borders were closed and no1 could get in. so it was a pretty safe place. and now its every day there are some suicide terrorist who blow them self up wich were before not in iraq so what was the use of it? and afghanistan they bombed a country 20 years back because there was an "uber terrorist" hiding in the country. first afghanistan was in war with the russians and the americans helped them. now there is a "terrorist" there and they bomb the land wich was building back up from the war with russians back to dust. and also give more terrorist the possiblty to hide in that country.
so im not bashing America but im bashing asshole Bush. the man who made more kills then bin laden could dream off

[Pendaelose]

It was some collaterial damage. 40% of american losses were from friendly fire. In reality things go different way than in movies and advertisment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen to that... its refreshing to here someone point out the mass media is not interested in making sure we have only the truth.

the media is a profit driven machine. It serves 2 purposes... When owned privately it is used to show people what they want to see... this makes more money by making the news more populare to watch (this is a huge problem in the USA) Truth is replaced by flash and shock.

If the news is owned by the government then it is used to sway the public opinion in the direction best suited to the use of the polyticians. again truth is lost, to agenda.

If its not owned by one or the other then you've got no news at all... ...

While in Iraq I was blessed with access to REAL intel reports from the field. (I work at a base command) On one occasion we sent 2 convoys of Iraqi bank trucks (carrying the new curancy) an escort of 2 Abrams each. we knew these convoys would be targeted and armed them apropriately... we turned THIER ambush into a trap. Body counts, we lost one man, they lost 100+ At our base camp we celebrated the awsome victory.

CNN that night reported the same news... Another Deadly day in Iraq, 2 convoyes ambushed, 8 dead.

The body count was real... the other 7 died in Auto accedents and training accedents (misfire, etc).

Not only that, but when I came home (I was there one year) not even one civilian in the USA knew about the schools, orphanages, hospitals, or food banks we had built. They were under the assumption that the only thing we did was get blown up in ambushes. They were clueless the reconstruction that was happening every day. I watched the news at home for a few hours and learned why. It was a sad distorted shadow of the truth.

I don't care what country anyone lives in. It is presumptious to think that you are recieving a remotely acurate view of any war without being there for yourself.

Creator,
as to strenght without mind, hell yeah its dangerous. It scares the shit out of me to think that these people are making life and death descicions every day. But I'm also willing to bet that its no accedent, soldiers that don't think will act on orders only and not give a second thaught. Thats some General's wet dream.

Monsunami,
There is alot of USA bashing. But while I've been around I get to see what it looks like to the rest of the world and we are kinda shity. not as a people, but as a nation. Especialy after you put a media twist on every thing we do. Most of what I think pisses of people comes from the movies and military. Young dumb soldiers run around the rest of the world talking shit. But I can also say that every soldier I ever met from any country did pretty much the same thing. Military is always pre-dispositioned to love the country, duh.

MECH,
theres really nothing to be pissed off about. Nobody has disagread with you at all.. in fact I agree with both you and Creator on nearly all the negative things said about the USA. It is true. I only point out 3 main things. 1. Not all americans fit the stereo types, hate the stereo type, not the person. 2. Don't think that the problems in the USA are exclusive to the USA. 3. American media does not reflect the views of Americans, only the idiots among us.

[Casojin]

I've heard that Soviet tank armor is tougher than US, but the tank like M1A2 has an ability to fire while moving, which is great advantage.
Once I was told that if you put T72 and M1A2 facing each other and shooting each other, the M1A2 is about to blow up first.

[Creator]

Creator,
as to strenght without mind, hell yeah its dangerous.  It scares the shit out of me to think that these people are making life and death descicions every day.  But I'm also willing to bet that its no accedent, soldiers that don't think will act on orders only and not give a second thaught. Thats some General's wet dream.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Once General's dream can become General's horror. History have a lot of examples. Here are two of them.

1) In 1941 Germany attacked USSR. They had broken all defenses easily, taken Minsk (the capital of Belorussia), taken Kiev (the capital of Ukraine, this city was the capital of Ancient Russia a lot of centures ago), surrounded Leningrad, captured the most of economical and industry regions and in 1942 they were near Moscow. It seemed that it is impossible to stop them, but... But people had belief and national idea. Deep in the rear of german forces they continued to fight distracting enemy forces from their main tasks. All communications with headquarters were lost. Nobody controlled that people. Germans were suggesting to surrender again and again. They could surrender and get a work in german army, but they did not do it. The most horrible situation was in Leningrad. There was no supplies, no food. Hungry people were working at factories producing tanks, shells and missile launchers. They were dying at their workplaces from hunger and illnesses. In the end Leningrad had not been taken. All german forces were defeated. This victory could not be achieved without belief and national idea. Strength without mind is not a strength. It will work only when everything is ok. If it will be a political strife in USA or soldiers will be in such difficult situation like Leningrad was they will not fight.

2) In 1945 after Germany had been defeated, eastern regions of USSR were in danger. Japan forces were in Mongolia and northen China. We had to defeat them. The war with Japan was short, but there was one interesting event. Once one of the fighter squadrons had got the task to destroy Japan military column. When fighters were above the column, pilots had seen that there a lot of civilians around. Japan tanks and soldiers were in the middle of this column. Planes returned to base without attacking their target and pilots said: "We will not kill unarmed people". In some time commanders had found the way out. They had ordered pilots to drop bombs near the column for civilians to run away and only then to destroy tanks and cannons. In result a lot of people lives were saved. American pilots can not do the same. They will destroy anything does not matter the target.

I've heard that Soviet tank armor is tougher than US, but the tank like M1A2 has an ability to fire while moving, which is great advantage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Everything is incorrect. Thickness of armor for both american and soviet/russian tanks is aproximately the same (difference is less than 5%), but all soviet tanks have smaller sizes (harder to hit) and smaller weakened areas. For example, look at this picture:

Areas painted red are weakened places that can be pierced even with old AP shells or with old RPGs. Soviet tanks have weakened places too, but they are 4 times smaller.

As for ability to fire while moving, all tanks developed after WW2 have this ability. But there is one feature. When tank is moving on rough terrain, everything is shaking inside and it is hard to load a shell in this situation. Abrams and Challenger have manual loading and rate of fire being significantly decreased then tank is moving. All other tanks (T-72, T-80, T-90, Leclerc, Leopard-2) have auto loaders. It does not matter for these mechanisms if tank is moving or not. Rate of fire is high (8-15 shots per minute) and always stable.

Once I was told that if you put T72 and M1A2 facing each other and shooting each other, the M1A2 is about to blow up first.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

T-72 can easily destroy M1 Abrams. As for M1A1 Abrams, it is better than T-72, but worse than T-80. As for M1A2 Abrams, it is better than T-80, but slightly worse than T-90.

If you put T72 and M1A2 facing each other and shooting each other then everything will depend on experience of tankeers. Task of M1A2 crew is only to hit T-72. After 1-2 hits it will be definetly destroyed. Task of T-72 crew is more difficult. They should hit weakened areas of Abrams. 1-2 hits into will be enough too. Also there are some tricks. T-72 can fire HE shell and all Abrams crew will be contused and will not able to do anything during some minutes. This time will be enough to aim properly and destroy Abrams.

Edited by Creator, 26 September 2005 - 05:47 PM.