82 replies to this topic

[Cobra]

great i cant wait to see some results

[Mullers_11]

Damn, got to change one line of coding and create a new asset, damn, damn, damn

[Mathijs]

Tough life eh mate?

[Cobra]

not really when ur working on getting stuff by thevisions team ingame

Edited by The Doctor, 22 April 2006 - 06:07 AM.

[Mullers_11]

They don't work me hard really, at all. We have no dates in which things are supposed to be done by, we just simply get on with it when we feel like it. Thus, we can take exams, have a social life without being modding being in the way. This is the thing I love about Visions!

[Gomurr the Ancient]

Concerning the Corsair Firebomb:
I humbly request that you don’t remove it. First, it’s one of the few things that makes Corsairs worth recruiting. And second, the complaints of it’s unrealism are somewhat exaggerated. For those who have taken issue with the animation of a man lighting a firebomb in his bare hand and throwing it, the comparison to the Molotov Cocktail should suffice to answer their qualms. And for those who find the firebomb unrealistic for Tolkien’s world, I would ask that you keep two things in mind.

First, these Corsairs are from Umbar. This is a city ruled and, in large part populated by, dark Numenoreans, descendants of the Kingsmen of old. And it is certain that the Numenorean bloodline is preserved there, since when Gondor had a civil war over the raising of an unpure King (not 100% Numenorean), those that took offense at the King’s bloodline went to Umbar and were supported there. Surely they would not have abandoned their nation because of their disgust with a non-pureblooded Numenorean King only to find succor in a nation that didn’t preserve the Numernorean lines. And seeing as it is then logical that Umbar would be preserving their Numenorean culture, it makes perfect sense that they would have some access to their Numenorean technological heritage.

And second, naptha throwers and Greek Fire were used in the ancient world, and Numenor at its height is depicted as far greater in all ways than the Byzantine Empire ever was. It’s hardly unreasonable to think that in lost Numenor they had discovered the recipe for what we call Greek Fire, and that in Umbar, a place descended from the loyal military men of the King, someone remembered that recipe whereas in Gondor and Arnor, Kingdoms founded by aristocrats, the recipe was unknown. And, as pointed out in point 1, Umbar most likely has preserved their Numenorean heritage, so having corsairs armed with small jars of Greek Fire (firebombs) seems perfectly reasonable. It can add up well enough, if one is inclined to do the math

In short, please please please please please please leave/re-add the Corsair Firebomb

Concerning the Variag:
While many choose to envision Khand as similar to Mongolian culture, I would point out that the only soldiers ever known to come from Khand were charioteers – a military unit never used by the Mongols to my knowledge, and certainly not in their heyday. I’ve seen nothing to indicate that Khand was meant to be portrayed as similar to the Mongols, and such ideas seem weakly rooted in the similarity of the name Khand with Khan. That being said, the Variag most specifically ought not to have Mongol influences. Variag is another word for Varangian – a historical group of northern (Russian/Lithuanian) axemen that were hired by the Byzantine emperors as guards. As such, I’d recommend any Variag unit look like easterling Axemen, with perhaps some Khandish armor, and be used

Concerning the Harad faction in general:
I like a lot of what is being done with this, as I’ve enjoyed playing as exclusively human Mordor armies in the past. And I can appreciate wanting to keep the influence of this army to Haradrim peoples, rather than including Easterlings. I would hope, though, that an Easterling faction, featuring primarily Khand (which is more often associated with Easterlings than with Haradrim and Southrons) and the more barbaric Easterlings of Rhun.

The one the one thing I would suggest, when creating this faction’s unit lists, is that you remember that Harad is not a centralized kingdom with a centralized monarchy and standardized army. Tolkien’s world is a feudal world, and even in centralized monarchies like Gondor, there is a great variety in the people and their soldiers (the uniformity of ‘Gondors’ soldiers is due to the fact that they’re solely representing the guard of Minas Tirith). Tolkien repeatedly refers to these peoples as “the Men of the Harad,” not of Harad as if it were a kingdom. Harad refers to a confederation of southern men typically unified by their subservience to Sauron and hatred of Gondor. So different color schemes, varying emblems, etc… would be very appropriate. Furthermore, I would push for a greater role for Umbar in the Harad faction, as they were the Minas Tirith of the South. They obviously had their Corsairs, but undoubtedly they also had holdovers from their Numenorean military tradition. The Numenoreans were known for their longbows, so perhaps the advanced archer unit could be the Umbar Longbowman (if my suggestion of Khand and Rhun being its own faction is received well).

Here would be the unit list I suggest, for what it’s worth:

Southron swordsmen - light, cheap, shock-troopers. Harad's main infantry
Desert archers - light, cheap, shock-troopers. Harad's main archers
Umbardrim Sentinel – much more heavily armored, expensive Longbowmen.
Haradrim warriors - medium, moderately cheap, pikemen. Here’s an image that might serve as inspiration: http://www.tuckborou...ad-soldiers.jpg
Hasharin - special, cheap, stealthy, assassin ability. Not even loosely canon, but it fits.
Haradrim Raiders - light, very fast shock-troopers, using the skin for the Serpent Knights shown in the Harad Update thread.
Corsairs of Umbar - heavy, toggle fire bomb/knives, can climb walls.
Men of Far Harad - elite, equal to half-troll marauders similar to the Beserkers of Isengard.
Battering Ram - cheap, equal to mordor ram.
Seige Bow - medium, smaller ballista.
Mumakil - special, same.

I would also propose two units that would only be summonable by their respective lords:
Serpent Knights - special, summonable by Suladan only, very powerful cavalry.
Black Numenoreans – elite longswordsmen, more than a match for any Gondorian infantry, summonable only by Castamir

Finally, I would propose a slight increase in the heroes of the Harad:
Suladan, lord of the Serpent Knights and a King of the Haradrim
2 Nazgul (only on horses, no Fell Beasts)
Mahud, a Mumakil leader
Castamir, Lord of Umbar, able to summon Dark Numenoreans & with leader bonuses to Umbarim units

Hopefully some of these thoughts will prove useful to you. Feel free to ignore me at your leisure, though

[Mathijs]

Our Haradrim list is final I'm affraid, and hasn't been released to the public yet. We focus alot on the fact that Harad didn't have acces to metal, or at least very limited acces. That is why only Sûladan of Harad and his Serpent Knights have steel blades. There are no Haradrim swordsmen in our mod, although the Serpent Knights can dismount. You see, a regular Haradrim in my opinion would not have acces to a steel or even iron blade, simply because iron ore was very hard to get in Haradwaith. We have got Haradrim Raiders, Hasharii and Troll-Men of Far Harad, backed by strong archers and pikemen.

[Hot!c3 II]

not released yet

[Mullers_11]

No you can't. No-one apart from the staff has the most current and up-to-date mod. When will it be ready? End of the summer time I hope.

[Gherrick]

Our Haradrim list is final I'm affraid, and hasn't been released to the public yet. We focus alot on the fact that Harad didn't have acces to metal, or at least very limited acces. That is why only Sûladan of Harad and his Serpent Knights have steel blades. There are no Haradrim swordsmen in our mod, although the Serpent Knights can dismount. You see, a regular Haradrim in my opinion would not have acces to a steel or even iron blade, simply because iron ore was very hard to get in Haradwaith. We have got Haradrim Raiders, Hasharii and Troll-Men of Far Harad, backed by strong archers and pikemen.

I hope Half-Trolls from Far Harad can't be trampled....and are bersekers like not horde unit.

[Mathijs]

Guess it's your lucky day then.

[Mullers_11]

Guess it's your lucky day then.

Hmm.... *I'm back* *dances*

Sorry for my unexplained absence (not that you noticed it anyway) - I was on holiday in Devon for a week. I will be back modding very soon indeed.

[Mathijs]

We won't add in any additional Haradrim heroes. 2 are done already and the third, and last, is in the final stages of development. Too many heroes wouldn't be good for the strategies we have in mind for Harad.

[Orc Master]

Besides, I don't think camels would fit in Middle-Earth nicely... Or maybe that's just me.

[alfreak1]

Camels in Middle Earth would be like penguins in the Sahara. In my opinion, Harad actually has too many different types of units.

[Mullers_11]

No camels people. No camels. I agree with AlFreak1 here, what he just said

Edited by Mullers_11, 27 August 2006 - 07:57 PM.