284 replies to this topic

[Shine On]

If you want delays then look at what used to be 3d Realms (before Rockstar took them over) Im still waiting for Duke Nukem Forever

[Blodo]

Actually Blizzard hasn't made a really good innovative game since Starcraft, but that's just my opinion. World of Warcraft is basically hopping on the MMORPG bandwagon, that's not innovative. Warcraft 3 might have been innovative (not really after you disregard the RPG elements and the army killing heroes) but it certainly wasn't very good for that matter.

Relic is quite frankly one of the best right now, and I can count you at least three reasons why: Homeworld, Dawn of War, Company of Heroes.

[Torn]

Agreed, Relic's RTS games ooze quality. They are brilliantly awesome.

Edited by Torn, 29 October 2006 - 04:41 PM.

[duke_Qa]

indeed. blizzard has to outdo relic if they want to have a future within RTS again. they have to see what makes COH and DOW great games and do it better. something which i believe blizzard would be able to do if they put their minds to it, thus i'm kinda looking forward for the results.

Edited by duke_Qa, 29 October 2006 - 05:27 PM.

[Calamity_Jones]

I just finished playing through Homeworld and Homeworld 2 again. They are simply gob smackingly good rts games, everything an innovative rts game should be. My only qualm was with Homeworld 2's balance which was far too "rock, paper, scissors" i.e. units were artificially balanced. An identiclal projectile fired by two different vehicles would deal different damage to the same target...

Dawn of War is of course a masterpiece. It's just fucking great, and looks great

I've never played any warcraft games, or starcraft. They look like a pile of shit to me. Hell, I don't touch command and conquer anymore either, they suck too Empire at war has excellent space combat, but it doesn't come close to Homeworld 2.. and the land combat in EAW is quite frankly dreadful... So yeah, Relic are the current masters, but GPG are going to change all that

Edited by Calamity_Jones, 29 October 2006 - 07:26 PM.

[Blodo]

Actually technically Total Annihilation is pretty much the only Real Time Strategy game, meanwhile everything wrongly dubbed as RTS is in fact an RTT (Real Time Tactics). It's kind of like different genres, it's not really something you can compare to other games in terms of "this is done better than in game x". But you sure as hell can say that the game is simply awesome compared to everything else.

[Calamity_Jones]

very good point, as Chris Taylor said... lots of "rts" games have no strategy in them, its just small scale tactics on a small battlefield.

Sup Com will probably be the frist real RTS... though Homeworld had strategy... you had to think about what ships you built as you'd carry them to the next one, and you could always capture an enemy ship rather than kill it. Like the crazy spinning multi beam frigates in homeworld, I captured almost all of them 'cos they're so damn awesome I only had like 3 at the last level... but I had 6 battlecruisers, so meh (4 of which were stolen from the taidan...)

Edited by Calamity_Jones, 30 October 2006 - 02:50 AM.

[Blodo]

Doesn't change the fact that you can count real RTS games on the fingers of one hand

[Ash]

How do you define it then?

[Blodo]

RTT (Real Time Tactics)

Pay attention, rabbit!

[Elerium]

Sup Com will probably be the frist real RTS... though Homeworld had strategy... you had to think about what ships you built as you'd carry them to the next one, and you could always capture an enemy ship rather than kill it. Like the crazy spinning multi beam frigates in homeworld, I captured almost all of them 'cos they're so damn awesome I only had like 3 at the last level... but I had 6 battlecruisers, so meh (4 of which were stolen from the taidan...)

I had 9 at the last level so ha! 32 Ion Cannons bathing on a heavy cruiser, you know it didn't last for more than a few seconds. I focused in on it and the whole screen was covered with light (around the cruiser) so yeah it didn't last long I also smuggled up 8-9 in the last mission when I played Homeworld again. I did it to kill off the Emperor and well the headphones went *boom* with Ion Cannon sound and lets just say his cute little mothership only lasted uhh 6 seconds tops?

[Calamity_Jones]

haha 9 of them crazy spinning things musta been a pretty awesome sight

on the last level my 6 heavy cruisers didn't even reach the emperors flagship... slow fuckers... That defecting destroyer captain killed it for me... he kinda went racing off while I tried to catch up.

Sajuuk just takes the piss in hw2 though... like...

Edited by Calamity_Jones, 31 October 2006 - 05:19 AM.

[Ash]

RTT (Real Time Tactics)

Pay attention, rabbit!

I meant how do you define Real Time Strategy!

I'll rephrase it for your poor Easten European brain. It's clearly too clogged with pollution from inferior industry and the desire to head westward. :

What is the difference in your definition between Real Time Strategy and Real Time Tactics?

[Blodo]

If you ever shown a modicum of awareness you would've noticed that I needn't actually state the obvious that is the difference between RTS and RTT. But since your McDonald's stuffed western ignorance ridden skull doesn't seem to contain the thing called imagination, I will explain it just for you.

Strategy -: A term used to describe a grand plan, setting objectives and eventually assigning forces to complete that objective. Strategy involves plans of movement for whole armies, cooperation of air, land and sea elements and fighting on the grand scale.

Tactics -: The branch of military science dealing with detailed maneuvers to achieve a set objective. Tactics are using the terrain to your advantage, manuevring individual units to achieve the best possible position to fight the enemy.

Do I have to make it any more obvious?

[Elerium]

haha 9 of them crazy spinning things musta been a pretty awesome sight

on the last level my 6 heavy cruisers didn't even reach the emperors flagship... slow fuckers... That defecting destroyer captain killed it for me... he kinda went racing off while I tried to catch up.

Sajuuk just takes the piss in hw2 though... like...

The first time I did that mission I was really overwhelmed and lost a few times just when the defecting captain arrives. I think he's only something there to save your ass when you really need it because when I did the last mission again properly (only medium-minor damage to the MS) he didn't show up Attack Bombers are your ultimate and super-trump card for this mission.

Yeah Sajuuk does take the piss.. super cannons and well a huge frigging gundam-something-like cannon which can hit something halfway across the map What got me though is why did they dump the MS when they could just haul it back.. Also the plotline for HW2 was just bad in my opinion, there was no majestic journey, this should have been majestic journey but militarised. Now it just seemed that HW2 was 'here's some backplot now go and beat the big bad menace and take the big ship'.

Edited by Elerium, 31 October 2006 - 05:54 PM.

[Calamity_Jones]

I got pwned loads on that last mission

I was never really a fan of bombers.. i just used shitloads of big ships... had a few support frigates repairing my mothership and my fleet mulling about it killing taidan scum.

HW2 had an ok plot, but yeah, the one in the original game was a lot better... you really felt like a part of the poor poor kushan... fighting an epic journey acoss the galaxy to get back home! *cries*

[Ash]

If you ever shown a modicum of awareness you would've noticed that I needn't actually state the obvious that is the difference between RTS and RTT. But since your McDonald's stuffed western ignorance ridden skull doesn't seem to contain the thing called imagination, I will explain it just for you.

Strategy -: A term used to describe a grand plan, setting objectives and eventually assigning forces to complete that objective. Strategy involves plans of movement for whole armies, cooperation of air, land and sea elements and fighting on the grand scale.

Tactics -: The branch of military science dealing with detailed maneuvers to achieve a set objective. Tactics are using the terrain to your advantage, manuevring individual units to achieve the best possible position to fight the enemy.

Do I have to make it any more obvious?

Well, Comrade, if your education centred around anything more than the glory of The Party, you might be able to grasp something which we westerners call Theory of Mind...which basically amounts to 'not everyone knows everything you know'. Of course, you believe Comrade Stalin shoots lightning from his arse during rainstorms, and that when you die, if you are bad, you work for a corporation (God knows, the HR department is always full of fucking walking corpses) but that's another matter.

Strategy -: A term used to describe a grand plan, setting objectives and eventually assigning forces to complete that objective. Strategy involves plans of movement for whole armies, cooperation of air, land and sea elements and fighting on the grand scale.

Technically, that might include such as C&C, except the grand scale part.

Tactics -: The branch of military science dealing with detailed maneuvers to achieve a set objective. Tactics are using the terrain to your advantage, manuevring individual units to achieve the best possible position to fight the enemy.

Terrain advantage doesn't play a part in *most* games we label as RTS. C&C doesn't, Homeworld OBVIOUSLY doesn't, Starcraft? Nope...

The divide can be argued over, but if we're basically talking about the scale of the battle we're working from, how many other such games do you know operate on a scale of battle above a small pocket of the battle like a C&C game?

[duke_Qa]

civ4 would probably be a good example. iconic abstract pikemen kicking modern armor tank butt yeah!

[Elerium]

civ4 would probably be a good example. iconic abstract pikemen kicking modern armor tank butt yeah!

Or Civ1's Caveman warrior killing a Battleship?

Conan lives again!

[Torn]

I don't see why you can't be strategic over a small battlefield, but hey.