1340 replies to this topic

[skitchy]

And yet no-one comments on what i said a few posts ago, no, not the one about burning, the other one....my..umm...Rant..

[Athena]

Some posts here made me think of something. So I have a question to everyone here who believes in God. Just a personal question, out of interest. Slightly related I think.

I do not believe in God, but if there would be one, I personally think God would be genderless, instead of male as the Bible says. That'd make more sense to me.

So just a question. Do you believe that God is male, or genderless? And, if possible, what's the reasoning behind it?

No atheist needs to reply on this. I know you don't believe in God so pointless to try to answer . I don't believe in God, but I am openminded and wondered this. There is no right and wrong in religious debate really. Right and wrong, apart from existing by law, is also something that's defined in one's own mind.

[skitchy]

i think that if there is a god, god would be a female, who is disabled, black and basically a mix of all of our worldly prejudges....Don't ask me why, but that's how i always imagined a god would be...
I apologise if anybody found that offensive of blasphamous, but that's actually what i think

[Banshee]

You're right. There is nothing after you die. There is nothing worth living for. That idealogy simply reinforces ones own fruitless path to death and uselessnes.

People have a terrible idea that they live due with a pre-estabilish mission. Or that life has a purpose. Who makes the purpose of your life is yourself, during your life. Who makes your objectives is you. Follow your dreams, make them reality! Life is long and you have plenty of time to do a lot of stuff. Carpe Diem for every single day of your life.

[Feanor]

Spencer I've noticed you become highly defensive when anyone mentions anything emotional or spirtual because you actually whitewashed all religious individuals as crazy convertors or murderers in order to dodge the subject when faced with geninue questions which you can't answer.

You don't say I simply don't know because to be honest you are proud of yourself but insist it would be nice but ... and then another pot shot at religion.

I think personally you haven't experienced enough life yet to be honest.

Being serious your young like I am. Hostile has a wife, possibly kids (don't know that) so to be honest he has more experience in living life hence why he gets all emotional and goes all "sappy"

I'm trying to wonder how you can appreciate concepts like honour, loyalty, friendship even love if you just believe everyone to be chemically charged bags of water (stars and outerspace are simply burning balls of hydrgoen ungoing nuclear fusion to you and do not give you a sense of beauty of future exploration inspiration)

Basically I'm asking what do you actually get out of life? What purpose is there to role playing games and military if its simply a chemical response of enjoyment which biologically just makes you less efficient by wasting your time?

If you didn't exist it wouldn't matter anyway so why exist?

yeh spencer why do you go on living why not go and jump of a cliff right now if life is not worth living. Personaly my reason for living is to have kids and have my familie live on, thats the reason we are here, ( lol go forth and multiply)

And spencer if you look up at the sky and see burning globes of hydrogen, I truly pitty you
a being incapable of seeing the wonders of nature, what a sad situation for somone to be in,
you must get terribly depressed if every day you get up in the morning and wonder *why do I do this if theres no point*..

I think theres alot to life that we have yet to understand and quiet possibly will never understand.



EDIT:

And jeaz man, stop acting like a bloody Dictator, you can't make everyone look like an idiot for not all beliving life is worthless, where would you be without it.

Edited by Feanor, 02 August 2006 - 03:07 PM.

[Orc Master]

Beautifully said, Banshee! Life doesn't have a pre-entablished destiny: In fact, that's an herecy. People make their own goals and purposes, but they are fueled by motivation. I think this is scientifically proved. And this motivation won't often come from the idea that we're just chemical-energy-based water bags that stand on a piece of stone in the middle of blackness.

As to God's gender, God's genderless, since he doesn't actually need to have a sex. Jesus Christ came to the World in the shape of a man, that's right, but Jesus didn't have anything against women, as far as I know.

I must say, this is turning out in very unexpected ways It'd be interesting to make a scientific test out of this: Statements and responses about the existance of God and validness of existant religions in a mostly atheist community. We could win the Nobel

[skitchy]

Ohh, win the nobel eh?

I want any prize money that we get...I put dibs on it

[MSpencer]

Humans are simply more advanced bacteria. We're organisms that exist solely to exist. Life is simply a manifestation of the environment which takes advantage of the situations it lives in. We're simply an organic continuation of the environment.
What's my point for living? Well my brain's still going, my heart is beating. I do quite like history, and the pursuit of science is one of my callings. Why am I living? Well, do you want the biological definition of why, or the real reason why? Biologically, I am living because I am a fairly advanced organism and the member of a species which has evolved on this earth to fit the niche of a long distance runner and a scavenger (Yes, that's what we were doing on the plains of Africa, we're distance runners, not speed runners). I am only a living member of this species because my heart is beating, my body is following the principles of a living organism, and my brain is active. That would change if I died.
Non-biologically? I am alive because I can be. It is my choice to do so.
We don't exist to serve anyone, we exist because evolution has fashioned us into specialized organisms. It's a dismal point of view, but we are no different from bacteria. We're all alive, we're just the organisms which can contemplate our own existence and our own pointlessness.
If you can't come to terms with things like that, or if you want to desperately believe there is something more after death, and cannot fathom that is all for nothing, I suggest you look into some sort of philosophy. Personally, I am advanced enough to realize that my end is coming in fifty to seventy years, and that when I die, I'll be dead, gone. The biochemical perversions and imperfections which make up the thing we call a personality will be gone. That's why I adhere to the "live it up" philosophy. We've only got so long, when we're done, the lights turn off and the mind goes away in the form of energy into the environment.

[Feanor]

jeaz you are really sad, I don't mean why you physicaly live I mean why do you live, if everything does not matter after you die, then whats the point your hardly going to be the next Einstein, I'm trying to tell you if you choose to exist then you must have a reason, a reason to live, it has been proven if someone no longer has a reason to live or has lost the will to live has simply died.

for instance certian aboriginal people would actuly will themselfs to death if they caught the flue.

search it on google....

[MSpencer]

Oh thank you for reporting posts in here about flaming, and then telling me I have a pitiful existence.
This is only going to degrade from here.

Locked for the forseeable future.

On second thought, because you're making this personal, calling people pathetic for expressing their opinions, and then at the same time reporting people for purported and trumped up flaming (Really only because you disagree), I'm going to officially warn you for your conduct here. Perhaps maybe you'll learn that if you're going to act all sensitive, you had best not cross someone and come off as insulting them.

Edited by MSpencer, 03 August 2006 - 11:42 PM.

[Ash]

You're right. There is nothing after you die. There is nothing worth living for. That idealogy simply reinforces ones own fruitless path to death and uselessnes.

People have a terrible idea that they live due with a pre-estabilish mission. Or that life has a purpose. Who makes the purpose of your life is yourself, during your life. Who makes your objectives is you. Follow your dreams, make them reality! Life is long and you have plenty of time to do a lot of stuff. Carpe Diem for every single day of your life.

Best thing I've heard you say in a long time, Banshee. Kudos to you!

jeaz you are really sad, I don't mean why you physicaly live I mean why do you live, if everything does not matter after you die, then whats the point your hardly going to be the next Einstein, I'm trying to tell you if you choose to exist then you must have a reason, a reason to live, it has been proven if someone no longer has a reason to live or has lost the will to live has simply died.

for instance certian aboriginal people would actuly will themselfs to death if they caught the flue.

search it on google....

Feanor, do you honestly think we chose to exist? We exist because Mummy and Daddy got busy. We exist because that one-of-ten-million sperms was fastest. We exist because Daddy wasn't a jaffer or a homosexual.

The objective of life is to get busy for yourself. To ensure the continuation of your own genetic makeup. Any other greatness you can give to your children is surely a bonus, and secures their future. It is not a case of whether it matters when you die, it's a case of whether it matters while you're alive. If we all thought like you with this vision of a perfect afterlife, we'd just sit and twiddle or thumbs, or would off ourselves to get there faster. What you do with your life and the time you have left on the clock is your choice. Indeed, it actually gives us more reason to live rather to exist twiddling our thumbs.

People think Atheists are worthless just because they dont believe in a higher plane of existence or an afterlife. However what they forget in my case is that, even if there was one, I wouldn't want it.

[Tom]

Why wouldn't you want it ash?

[Ash]

Feanor put it quite well. Once dead, it's obvious I've lost the will to live. If I've lost the will to live, I hardly want to spend an eternity at it.

Besides, an eternal afterlife full of the same pretentious bastards I spent my living years suffering. I'd get bored of the company pretty quickly. Plus there's the bloody principle of the fact! The subjectivity of where I go as opposed to one guy who got one more fault or good point on his scoresheet than I did. The very idea that I am to be judged when I have committed no crime save that of having freedom of thought. Very Orwellian if you ask me.

I've actually explained it better a couple of times elsewhere. The general jist of the argument is that whatever deity(ies) there are can shove their afterlife up their omniscient ass(es).

[Orc Master]

You know, I'd love people to stop insulting God. Is it that you don't have respect for the stuff that is sacred for some people?

I truly don't believe in discrimination. I don't think, therefore, that I am more than anyone, so I don't think christians/catholics are more worthy than atheists or agnostics. What I really DO believe is that God exists, and that we can go to Heaven to be with him only if we follow his rules, and we go to Hell if we don't. I also believe that Jesus Christ is God.

But if you don't believe in any of these, because they don't make sense to you, then don't attack those who believe. Just accept them. Religion is not for separating people, but for union and harmony.

[cdmtx(YR)]

First of all I would like to say that everyone is entitled to their own opinions and or beliefs. I would like to state my own opinions and beliefs to help further expand and or change your opinions and beliefs.

Origins of the Universe
I am sure we are all quite familiar with the "Big Bang" theory and other scientific theories that show how the universe could have been created. These theories have one common principal that is flawed. That common principal is that some forms of matter and gases came together to make the universe. But where did the matter and the gases come from? No one knows. It is a scientific fact, that nothing can produce something, and or some form of matter, or anything for that nature. So what I'm getting it is their has to be some form of a curator for the "Big Bang" theory and others like it to create the original materials for the forming of the universe for these theories even to work.

Life and Death
There was this famous atheist who I forget his name that was converted to Christianity, and he said something to this effect. "If you are a Christian and Christianity is false you would live your life on a moral belief system and when you die nothing would happen. If you're in atheist, and atheism is false you live your life on your own belief system and when you die, you would end up in a living in eternal hell. If you are a Christian and Christianity is true you would live your life on a moral belief system, following and believing in Lord of the universe, and when you die you will be in eternal paradise. If you're in atheist, and atheism is true you live your life on your own belief system and when you die, nothing would happen.

So basically what if atheism is false, what if we're wrong than we would be screwed big time.

Edited by cdmtx(YR), 07 August 2006 - 03:18 PM.

[Athena]

Those gases just could've been there always? I can ask you samely, where did God come from? How did 'He' get into existance?

Why would there be hell if you are an atheist? Doesn't God love all 'His' / Its children equally? If that atheist lives by moral principles, lives a good life, helps other people, then why would that person go to, if it would exist, Hell?

Note: I write 'He' because I personally find that, if there was a God, God would be genderless, not male.

[Ash]

You know, I'd love people to stop insulting God. Is it that you don't have respect for the stuff that is sacred for some people?

Not at all. But when I'm being bombarded from all sides for my own beliefs, frankness just comes naturally. Besides, I don't see how my blunt manner was in any way insulting. I never said: "God is an asshole." or anything direct. I just said that were he to come up to me and ask: "Do you want an afterlife?" I'd tell him where to stick it.

I truly don't believe in discrimination. I don't think, therefore, that I am more than anyone, so I don't think christians/catholics are more worthy than atheists or agnostics. What I really DO believe is that God exists, and that we can go to Heaven to be with him only if we follow his rules, and we go to Hell if we don't. I also believe that Jesus Christ is God.

But if you don't believe in any of these, because they don't make sense to you, then don't attack those who believe. Just accept them. Religion is not for separating people, but for union and harmony.

That is entirely your prerogative to believe such things. Nobody ever said it wasn't (Well, I sure didn't). However, don't claim me to have attacked you or your god. I didn't.

I simply stated that, if your beliefs, or any afterlife-related beliefs are true, I would hope that there is a 'get-out' clause, as I don't want an afterlife If that doesn't make sense, then I don't know how I can put it

Life and Death
There was this famous atheist who I forget his name that was converted to Christianity, and he said something to this effect. "If you are a Christian and Christianity is false you would live your life on a moral belief system and when you die nothing would happen. If you're in atheist, and atheism is false you live your life on your own belief system and when you die, you would end up in a living in eternal hell. If you are a Christian and Christianity is true you would live your life on a moral belief system, following and believing in Lord of the universe, and when you die you will be in eternal paradise. If you're in atheist, and atheism is true you live your life on your own belief system and when you die, nothing would happen.

So basically what if atheism is false, what if we're wrong than we would be screwed big time.

But this is where I come to my conclusion that if there is a God, on principle I don't want his favour, his good graces, or anything to do with him. If God is so judgemental as to, just because I don't believe in Him, damn me despite the fact I've never committed murder, rape, etc, why the hell would I want his favour? Despite the fact I could be the best doctor on the face of the planet, have revolutionised medicine and saved more lives than you've had changes of underwear, just because I don't believe in God, I get damned to hell?

No, thanks. I prefer my nonbelief. Let's assume there is a God, though. To be honest, I don't think he would care if we believed in Him or not. If He did, he'd make his presence a bit more overtly known, or perhaps wouldn't make it possible for us to not believe. I think God'd be much happier if, instead of confessing my sins to Him and be vindicated or whatever, that I just not make the sins in the first place?

Otherwise, Hell will be very densely populated. I mean, look at the Ancient Greeks, Egyptians and Romans. Look at the pagans, the Hindus, the Zoroastrians, the Picts, the Celts, the native tribes of America and Africa, the Aborigines, and just about every other non-Christian fuckin' race on the planet. They're all screwed bigtime, as they didn't believe in Jehovah.

If he's that evil as to damn God knows how many millions for that fact of daring to believe something different, then so be it. Why would I want to be in the company of such a person/deity? It surely illustrates his obnoxiousness a bit.

That's my take on the situation, based on my principles. Again, if you call that insulting your God, I apologise that you take it that way.

[Tom]

Don't worry about people "insulting" god.

Still ash you're believing the "afterlife" to be of 3rd dimensional perspective. Your believing you will still suffer after you've left your physical body. If God is infinite, then its quite obvious you have infinity to explore. This life is really really insignificant if you compare it to something infinitely big. Its an infinitely small part of an infinitely big consciousness. Then again that could be argued in many ways.

[Athena]

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't enjoy this life and make the best of it?

[Ash]

Don't worry about people "insulting" god.

Still ash you're believing the "afterlife" to be of 3rd dimensional perspective. Your believing you will still suffer after you've left your physical body. If God is infinite, then its quite obvious you have infinity to explore. This life is really really insignificant if you compare it to something infinitely big. Its an infinitely small part of an infinitely big consciousness. Then again that could be argued in many ways.

I don't believe I'll suffer. The point is, I don't want infinity, eternity or any such. I'm dead. Can't I be dead in peace, without having to bollock around for an infinity?

However, the mentality of "moving on to something bigger or better" is arguably more likely to promote apathy than "there's nothing, so make the best of it while you can".