92 replies to this topic

[Beowulf]

FINE! Do that! If that helps you sleep at night, go for it.
However, I'm going to live in the way that I see fit. If you can't handle it, then I dunno what to tell you. Just know that I'm going to drive a Dodge truck, shop at Wally World and buy Nikes... and I'm not going to care!

Edited by Beowulf, 01 July 2006 - 12:40 AM.

[duke_Qa]

the problem is that its up to the end-users to actually move their ass and do something about it. but in a country where you got 50% voting in the elections, you can probably not expect too much. too much thinking and poaking your head out i guess?

[Allied General]

the problem is that its up to the end-users to actually move their ass and do something about it. but in a country where you got 50% voting in the elections, you can probably not expect too much. too much thinking and poaking your head out i guess?

end users only move there ass if there is something extreme to actually make moving it worth it say foreign invasion or not enough money to go the pub.

oil prices in usa rise, new SUV models brought decreases, thats a end user response.

we are reactionary not pre-emptive the common civilian because to be honest, we all have enough personal issues to deal with and thats if we are lucky.

Edited by Allied General, 01 July 2006 - 12:56 AM.

[Beowulf]

Actually, SUV sales have stayed level. H2's still sell.

[duke_Qa]

so you defend your right not to be political with the basic that you are too busy with your life...too busy bying stuff, too busy finding time for partying and other events that takes up ones time, too busy doing things that are very much only good for you at the present time. (now i understand why so few americans vote, they are too worried someone might steal their TV'S while theyre out voting.)

the problem with reactionism. you shoot a mad dog who injured a human, but what if that mad dog killed a human? the damage has been done. would it have been best to have killed it before it killed or just let it be until the time was right? when is the right time then? when the dog is about to rip someone's jugular out?

thats too late

consider what you would have done with such a dog. would you be lax in your training and let it become a killer, or would you disipline it and in the worst case killed it before it killed a human?

[Beowulf]

so you defend your right not to be political with the basic that you are too busy with your life...too busy bying stuff, too busy finding time for partying and other events that takes up ones time, too busy doing things that are very much only good for you at the present time. (now i understand why so few americans vote, they are too worried someone might steal their TV'S while theyre out voting.)

I have something called a job. It seems quite apparent that very few of you are acquainted with one.
You make it sound like I'm a bad person because I have a fucking life and all the things that go with it. I'm not political because there are too many whackjobs out there that take their shit way too seriously.

the problem with reactionism. you shoot a mad dog who injured a human, but what if that mad dog killed a human? the damage has been done. would it have been best to have killed it before it killed or just let it be until the time was right? when is the right time then? when the dog is about to rip someone's jugular out?

Let's hear it for circular logic! You almost bunk your own argument with this. Congratulations!
Not to mention, this is the weakest argument that I've ever seen! Accept the damage that might have been done and remove the dog by any means necessary. There is no possible way to prevent every tragedy.

[duke_Qa]

I have something called a job. It seems quite apparent that very few of you are acquainted with one.
You make it sound like I'm a bad person because I have a fucking life and all the things that go with it. I'm not political because there are too many whackjobs out there that take their shit way too seriously.

hehe, it was more pointed agaisnt AG but if the shoe fits

i've worked plenty, but since im still studying i can't claim that i've worked full time on anything. but i've grown up on a farm and i can say that hard labour is not unknown to me.

a hundred years ago, maybe even less, 50% of the money one made would go to food. these days its around 10%. we are living in the golden age of the western world. in a post-industrial world where its more important to have a ton of stuff available, we don't care because we have other needs that are more apparent.

our way of life is 'Bread and Circus'!* we are too busy about having the best possible way of life that we don't care about the future. anything that matters is the present. would political engagement ruin your way of life, or is it just a topic that takes up too much time from your life filled with meaningful activities?

Let's hear it for circular logic! You almost bunk your own argument with this. Congratulations!
Not to mention, this is the weakest argument that I've ever seen! Accept the damage that might have been done and remove the dog by any means necessary. There is no possible way to prevent every tragedy.

so because you can't stop every tragedy in life you say let all dogs wander loose in the kindergarden? its impossible to stop every dog from killing someone so lets just let them roam the lands in packs?

you are saying my argument is bad because its no way that you can't stop every dog from killing. i never said that did i? i said that if you don't disipline the dog theres a bigger chance of it becoming a mad beast which would kill people. the problem doesnt start with the dog though. its the owner of the dog which is the problem here. if you got a dedicated owner which takes care of his dog, its rarely a problem. if you got a guy which is too lazy to care about the dog, its more likely to be more instinctive and aggressive.


the same with politics. if you don't care about politics, the politicians knows they can do alot more than they would in other circumstances.



*(roman caesars gave the people bread and circus/games/sports to keep them ignorant of politics more or less, theres prolly someone who knows more about this)

[Comrade Kal]

I can't believe anyone would consider a job more important than the terrible injustices which happen every day in the world.

[Allied General]

I can't believe anyone would consider a job more important than the terrible injustices which happen every day in the world.

Please tell us how to stop them then Kal

Also please preach all this knowledge to your parents who feed you and make you live in a nice comfortable enviroment and who however indirectly contribute to all the terrible injustices in the world.

I think you should live on the streets for a while so you set your priorities to common sense.

Edited by Allied General, 01 July 2006 - 09:25 PM.

[Comrade Kal]

By political activism.

I try.

Living in a cave or on the streets accomplishes nothing in itself.

[Allied General]

Kal your impact is minimal at best and on a global scale its like picking up a speck of sand off the beach.

You just look like a trend follower and the nature of your language and lack of respect for anyone with a different opinion, makes your opinions funny at best or offensive at there worst.

If you want to argue do not use emotive language.

Greenpeace and RSPCA do that.

If your serious about politics then actually do something which makes a significant impact.


Your political activism just says

* capitalism sucks
* companies exploit the third world
* starvation and wars suck

We already know that Kal.

Words are uselss actions are priceless.

My action is to change the people around me first before worrying about someone I don't know or have never met.

Edited by Allied General, 01 July 2006 - 09:53 PM.

[Silent_Killa]

By political activism.

I try.

For christs sake, do tell me, what political activism? No, ranting on a forum does not count.

Living in a cave or on the streets accomplishes nothing in itself.

You can't say what's right for the poor without being poor first. It's like having a boss who's never done the work himself or a general who's never set foot on a battlefield.

And to be fair, Duke and Kal over here have a point as well, it doesn't help to just give up on changing the current system. An individual can make no difference, but it's individuals that make up the masses, and when the masses ain't happy ain't nobody happy

"To see the right and not to do it is cowardice." - Confucius

[Beowulf]

a hundred years ago, maybe even less, 50% of the money one made would go to food. these days its around 10%. we are living in the golden age of the western world. in a post-industrial world where its more important to have a ton of stuff available, we don't care because we have other needs that are more apparent.

It's not having a ton stuff, it's paying for said stuff. You have to consider insurance, car payments, house payments, electrical bills, phone bills, TAXES, etc. That has to be paid, else I'm without service and living on the street, or working with no way of efficiently getting there. There's a reason why less is spent on food than other things.
Do not say, "Don't have it." It doesn't work that way and you fucking know it.

our way of life is 'Bread and Circus'!* we are too busy about having the best possible way of life that we don't care about the future. anything that matters is the present. would political engagement ruin your way of life, or is it just a topic that takes up too much time from your life filled with meaningful activities?

Do you want an honest answer or a bullshit answer?

so because you can't stop every tragedy in life you say let all dogs wander loose in the kindergarden? its impossible to stop every dog from killing someone so lets just let them roam the lands in packs?

That's not what I'm saying. Nice way to twist my words, though.

you are saying my argument is bad because its no way that you can't stop every dog from killing. i never said that did i? i said that if you don't disipline the dog theres a bigger chance of it becoming a mad beast which would kill people. the problem doesnt start with the dog though. its the owner of the dog which is the problem here. if you got a dedicated owner which takes care of his dog, its rarely a problem. if you got a guy which is too lazy to care about the dog, its more likely to be more instinctive and aggressive.

I agree with you but that doesn't mean we should whack every dog that has an incompetent owner. I'll take the Blaat road on this one: take the dog away from that lazy guy. Put him in the pound where a family may find it and love it to death. However, that's usually not the case. If a dog has shown to be aggressive for no reason, put it down to prevent tragedy but as I said, you can't prevent all of them.

I can't believe anyone would consider a job more important than the terrible injustices which happen every day in the world.

Well, believe it now, motherfucker! [/Pulp Fiction quotes]

Edited by Beowulf, 02 July 2006 - 05:39 PM.

[Comrade Kal]

As long as I have somewhere to live, nice food and nice clothes, i'm not fucked to be honest.

[duke_Qa]

It's not having a ton stuff, it's paying for said stuff. You have to consider insurance, car payments, house payments, electrical bills, phone bills, TAXES, etc. That has to be paid, else I'm without service and living on the street, or working with no way of efficiently getting there. There's a reason why less is spent on food than other things.
Do not say, "Don't have it." It doesn't work that way and you fucking know it.

most of the stuff you mentioned are things that they managed without a hundred years ago, but i have to agree that its not something one can get rid off once you've been accustomed to it. cellphones for example, its incredible how they've probably saved a ton of lives and made us alot more accessible to the world. but at the same time we never really have the option to be "away" anymore. people gets insulted if you don't answer the cellphone. so basically you've lost a bit more of your private life because of new technology.

the internet is also a fine example. before the internet came around, i probably would have been arguing with people in real life, now we just vent our angers on the internet through aliases with little fear of being held responsible for our actions, to people from the other side of the world. discussions that most likely will never become anything but hearsay as we speak the same language, but our political and economical enviroments are too different for it to be of any use.

new technology arrives, filling in a niche that we've never really thought about before and once its filled, we wouldnt have it any other way.

this is one of my biggest worries though. the western world that we live in demands a ton of these minor things that really is not needed for survival, but we are all hooked up on it and just the thought of not having it gives us abstinences. i'm not judging anyone here because its not a certain persons fault that this is the way it is. we were the most ambigious people on the planet, and we are certainly reaping the fruits of our situation these days.

the thing is, things might not be as this forever. in one scenario, would you accept that the western world started actively to occupy important resources around the world, chasing out and killing an endless amount of people which we've been taught are equal to every one of us, just so that we can keep on living the lives we live today?

our way of life is 'Bread and Circus'!* we are too busy about having the best possible way of life that we don't care about the future. anything that matters is the present. would political engagement ruin your way of life, or is it just a topic that takes up too much time from your life filled with meaningful activities?

Do you want an honest answer or a bullshit answer?

well that depends on the perceiver i guess. what you consider one thing i prolly consider something else.

but consider what i've written so far. i see one future scenarios that might be grim, but very possible:

1. we keep on living the way we do, perhaps even more than before. we don't really want to lose the stuff we got so we let our governments do as they please as long as they make sure that corporations gives us the stuff we need. the governments starts to take control over resources that there is a lack of in the world, making it hard to hide that the western world prioritizes its own people's comfort above other peoples lives. military forces becomes more and more ruthless, more and more people demands goods not avaible at home. people from 3rd world countries are used as cheap labour even more than what we do these days(whats the difference on sweat shops and slavery really?). after 20-30 years of this we have probably ticked off the rest of the world good enough for them to rise up against us, and even though we might have superior technology, they most likely outnumber us 10 to 1. either they win and topple the western world as we know it, or we win and keep on moving in the same direction as before, becoming a society where there are poor people that have no rights and rich people that have all the power they would ever need.

2. or we could realize that we cannot live like this forever, and start to focus more on "basic survival" again than "pure decadence". perhaps we manage to compromise, bio-diesel and fusion power, who knows. we don't need to give up everything we got these days if we are lucky. but we can't hope that we will be on top all the time, and we should be prepared for alot of bad things to happen.


basically though, i believe that if people doesnt show a bit of political interest, governments and corporations will take this as a green light to continue the ways that they have been going down for a while. thats why i'm not very pleased with people who doesnt find time for politics in their lives: if you don't choose yourself, someone else will choose for you. knowing how things are working and which way the wind is blowing is if anything going to help you more than its going to kill you.

I agree with you but that doesn't mean we should whack every dog that has an incompetent owner. I'll take the Blaat road on this one: take the dog away from that lazy guy. Put him in the pound where a family may find it and love it to death. However, that's usually not the case. If a dog has shown to be aggressive for no reason, put it down to prevent tragedy but as I said, you can't prevent all of them.

then you have to agree that if your government is not held on a tight leash, there are chances of it running haywire. if people get too lazy watching their governments movements, they cannot blaim anyone but themselves for how things will turn out.



urgh, that took a few hours...

hehe, by the way, found this interesting article about how the british like the americans. seems a bit harsh though, probably a pollwith biased questions...

http://www.telegraph.../03/nyank03.xml

[Tom]

Technology saves lives but it also destroys them. There is always a balance until we as mankind sort outselves out. Its ok to preach and argue ideologies but no one is actually doing anything here so every word here is pretty much bullshit. Ignorance or strong belief, its not changing anything, just getting people emotional which if negative does more bad that good depending on what you believe "bad" and "good" is. A "capitalist" believes its good to be making money (and being ignorant of the damage he causes, for example.

Its more about choice of ignorance rather than actually being ignorant because we didn't know. We can find out ANYTHING nowadays, all you gotta do is search either externally or internally. Truth is everywhere so theres no excuse for ignorance.

I expect most of you and even I will be eating our own words in a few years time but only time will tell on that matter.

[duke_Qa]

indeed, but its a human thing to believe that something that apparently normal for us at that time becomes inhuman in the future. or we deteriorate back into a dark age where things earlier thought of as pretty standard is removed or taken away from the people through different means.

we all are probably very wrong in the way we live our lives, but as long as we are smart enough not to trust blindly in someone doing the thinking for us it should most likely work out just fine.

[DemonWolf]

i'm doing a damn sight more than you'll ever do, you lazy middle-class ignorant selfish fucking waste of space.

Equality, eh comrade? You should be asahmed of yourself.

[Comrade Kal]

Why should I be ashamed of myself?

[Beowulf]

Cause you're an arrogant prick.