115 replies to this topic

[Chrisjh0223]

I prefer the Allied Legion the most, for the same reasons as Commander Elerium. I'm aware that Elerium has a dominating presence on the battlefield when playing as the Legion, but you should be aware that if you're also the Legion you can use the same entities and strategies as him. I wouldn't be scared at all against him if I were the legion, quite the opposite. XD

Yeah, I too can wage a guerilla war with stealth and chrono techs.

[Gamr973]

I honestly can't win a match as anyone but nexus. Today I beat a 1v1 brutal for the first time since I started playing Robot Storm. Advanced tanks and Zephyr Drones can defend against the AI with a few defences.
I am constantly surprised by the AI, I wasn't watching but I'm pretty sure the AI blew the walls around my conyard with his chrono tanks and than somehow got an engineer into my base during an attack.

[Apollo]

Well, Nexus was made as most simplest side back then really plus some OP things

[Gamr973]

All autohealing units and plenty of powerful defenses make things very simple, The allied freedom league is a lot of fun but I just can't figure out how to use them effectively.

[Ash]

Check out this link and this link.

I would like to open a discussion of exactly where you all think each side fits on these calculi.

I think the first link answers would be fairly obvious:

Elitist/Technical = Allied Legion
Guerrilla/Ranger = Freedom League
Spammer = NEXUS
Brute Force = Osiris

Although possibilities exist for the Freedom League to play something of a Brute Force/Spammer combo (both in 1.99 and in the new 2.0 tech branches), and it is definitely possible to play the Allied Legion as an Elitist Guerrilla (I have watched Elerium do it to devastating effect).

On the Faction Calculus, I think things get a bit more complicated:

AL = Balanced, with a bit of Cannons
FL = Cannons, with a touch of Subversive
NX = Powerhouse, with a touch of Subversive
OS = Powerhouse through and through.

I actually think the five-faction calculus is better than the four-faction, since NX could then be horde rather than Powerhouse.

The tech branches further complicate this whole thing, though. AL get more Cannons with weather branch, more Subversive with Illusion branch, and more Balanced/Powerhouse mix with Chrono branch (sure, there's a lot of teleporting going on, but the units tend to be reasonably capable and are obviously effective against most enemy targets because they can just erase it).
FL get more Cannons with Nuclear branch (lots of explosives), more Subversive with Electro branch (EMP powah), and a whole different type of Subversive with Contamination branch. I don't think they really get a Powerhouse mode, although branches can be denied some staple units (replaced with units more true-to-form for that branch), which make them more or less Powerhouse-y. I would have to see where every unit slots to effectively judge that...FL are more diverse and profound in their branch's effect on the overall gameplay than any other. Watch this space.
NX get more Horde with Mass Production branch (obviously), more Subversive with hacker branch, and more Powerhouse with Energy Weapon branch.
As for Osiris...I genuinely don't know. I don't even know what their tech branches are! XD

This is just my take on it. If anyone has a different perspective or thought, feel free to share.

[MCV]

This is just my take on it. If anyone has a different perspective or thought, feel free to share.

Having YKTTW'd and written Faction Calculus that's pretty close to my understanding too. There's nothing to stop you from including the Horde descriptor for 4th-level calculus though, Generals had Horde on 3rd-level calculus without problem; it's a subversion. I'd say that the FL are a bit more Subversive than you attribute them though; they have lots of fun infantry.

Hey, Faction Calculus was written mostly based on me having played a lot of C&C and it's mods, so there's no wonder you can pull clear lines; it's also one of the reasons it doesn't stretch beyond five factions; I've never played games with more than five fundamentally different factions that wasn't a 4X game.

I think I had Robot Storm in mind when I pYKTTW'd the article too...

[Ash]

What is YKTTW? Tis nice to see a fellow troper tho.

To be honest and fair to the page, it's difficult to go beyond five without massive overlaps. Take Dawn of War:

Space Marines: Balanced Powerhouse.
Eldar: Elitist Specialist - most units suck against all but a certain type, but are ridiculously effective against that type.
Chaos: Technical + Spammer (Lots of weak-ass units, but a couple of heavy hitters and nasty powers when advance enough)
Orks: Spammer, pure and simple. No brains...just Waaagh!
Imperial Guard: Specialist (tanks) + Spammer - The only thing worth bothering with as the IG are their vehicles. The problem is getting them to survive long enough to reach that point.
Tau: Ranger + Specialist - Tau units outrange any other side, but tend to fall foul of same issues Eldar do; they lose if they're fighting the 'wrong' type of enemy. Which is why the Kroot and Vespin are there.
Necrons: Powerhouse + Spammer (well, spam is more in late game and resurrect ability) - their units are stupid tough, nastily powerful, and easy to get hold of. They're just slow, making them more mighty glacier.
Sisters of Battle: Spammer + Elitist - nowhere near as good as a SM faction, and best employed against the likes of Chaos, what with all their fire units.
Dark Eldar: Gimmick. I don't really know DE well enough, but chances are they're more gimmick than much else.

A side cannot fit 100% within its 'faction type' or else it would be beaten easily, rock-paper-scissors style. Powerhouse would beat spammer, spammer would beat elite, elite would beat specialist, specialist would beat powerhouse. So all sides have something antithetical to their doctrine just to even things out.

[MCV]

YKTTW - You Know That Thing Where - the place where tropes are proposed and discussed before an actual article is launched.

In the original draft for Faction Calculus the factions were called NATO, Russia, Terrorists, USA, Europe and China, and I was wondering what the heck India would do - the names were later changed because they were a wee bit political, but Westwood is pretty much the Trope Maker for 2 and 3 Faction Calculus.

A faction can fit entirely within it's calculus, but that's be boring because it would come down to Zergling vs Mammoth Tanks, which isn't any fun. It's much more fun to have some diversity so you can have actual strategies.

[Apollo]

Nice to hear RS potentially inspired some of those or Westwood for that matter.

[Ash]

YKTTW - You Know That Thing Where - the place where tropes are proposed and discussed before an actual article is launched.

In the original draft for Faction Calculus the factions were called NATO, Russia, Terrorists, USA, Europe and China, and I was wondering what the heck India would do - the names were later changed because they were a wee bit political, but Westwood is pretty much the Trope Maker for 2 and 3 Faction Calculus.

A faction can fit entirely within it's calculus, but that's be boring because it would come down to Zergling vs Mammoth Tanks, which isn't any fun. It's much more fun to have some diversity so you can have actual strategies.

You forgot ThoseWackyNazis. They'd probably be gimmick side tho...

[Allied General]

I'm split between FL for Tank Hunter spam (ag reinvents the barrack hack) or Nexus for sheer firepower.

Btw Ash you need to be online more for RS 2.0

[Comrade General]

I'd choose FL because it's a fun side to use (bomb jeeps+kamikazes=fun ) and Nexus because of its sheer coolness, and the fact that Nexus reminds me of C&C 2's CABAL.

[SiberianBear]

Having read all:

1st place: Nexus with it's autoheal - great for harrass and hit-and-run. Also Nexus is able to conduct different type of rushes (not just by centurions). The minus is that it is not effective in anything but rushes.

2nd place: FL - they are f*ckin' crazy! It is just fun to use their kamikaze tactics, Infestors in the Battle APCs against FL and AL while EMP tanks against Nexus (they damage even nexus infantry) and so on ... Moreover, they have great combo of Kirovs+Phoenixes for "copters rush" ! And, finally, their devastators can target both air and ground , like centurions (while the decimators can't )

3rd place: THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT AL THE LAMEST FACTION, it is just MY PERSONAL OPINION: yeah, they are d*mned cool, elite, high-tech and so on faction, but ... They are not neither tough like Nexus nor tricky like FL, so ... they are simply boring (!!! IMHO !!!)

[Apollo]

Once 2.0 kinda released in one way or another..I'll be sure to redo this thread for 2.0 and thats why this thread hasn't been updated to include Osiris.

I hope Nexus is capable a bit more in 2.0 thanks to branches than just rushes ..or atleast I gave more effort to that.

FL come with more diversity too and AL Decimator is AA capable in 2.0

[SiberianBear]

Once 2.0 kinda released in one way or another..I'll be sure to redo this thread for 2.0 and thats why this thread hasn't been updated to include Osiris.

I hope Nexus is capable a bit more in 2.0 thanks to branches than just rushes ..or atleast I gave more effort to that.

FL come with more diversity too and AL Decimator is AA capable in 2.0

There is so many talks about 2.0, but when we'll be given an opportunity to test it (at least beta)?

[Apollo]

When this lazy excuse of a modder manages keep motivation to keep working on it and that few people involved pool in their effort to the project... once its decently satisfactory, ill know date to launch