67 replies to this topic

[Drewry]

a poem I made. Comments?

Edited by Drewry, 15 October 2006 - 08:18 AM.

[Airman]

So....democracy died this year? Anyways, I'd defend it.

[MSpencer]

Well great, go off and get yourself shot. You're defending fascism.

I discovered this bill only a week ago. Habeas corpus is completely suspended for anyone suspected of terrorism, which could be anything from blowing up buildings to speeding. And they can send US citizens from the US to Guantanamo.
They officially have the same power as the Gestapo, but are they going to use it such? Perhaps.

[Cossack]

In your guys' (Americans) opinion, do you think there can be anything done about this, without a revolution and/or civil war? For example, if the democrats won the senate and congress this year, and won the presidency next election, would that significantly change the course towards totalitarianism? Or are the democrats too similar to the republicans? Or would the democrats make it even worse because I get the impression they are less libertarian than the republicans.

I'm asking this because I'm not very familiar with american politics, and I would like to know whether I should be happy or not care when I hear about a democratic political win on the news.

[Tom]

The democrats would win, they still wouldn't do fuck all about it because their leaders and upper party is still sponsored by basically the same people. When a country is in so much debt to bankers, the bankers basically own it, its people and its government.

Basically the only way anything will happen is a civil war or a revolution. I can't see a revolution but i can see the likelihood of people fighting back if they or when they figure Americas politics as gone too wrong.

For britain which has similar laws and in the future will also have more rights taken away for the same reason, i doubt civil war would happen because people here couldn't give a fuck either way.

[MSpencer]

Yep, that's the one with the master's in politics with a specialization on American Politics speaking there.
Things would not stay the same.

[Airman]

Hold up, Spence. How is democracy fascism

[Cossack]

I was just watching CNN while eating lunch, and Wolfe Blitzer was interviewing Howard Dean, the chairman of the democratic party. Although you can never believe anything politicians say, he seemed like a pretty sensical guy.

He was saying how bush's tax cuts only affected the rich americans while the middle class payed the price, and how he wanted to raise minimum wage, something the republicans have refused to do. He also mentioned that Bush's primary enemies to be dealt with are Iran, Iraq and North Korea, and all of which have gotten more and more dangerous during Bush's term in office.

Maybe he's just saying stuff and not really meaning it, but I sure as hell think the democrats can do a better job than republicans, even though they are supposedly so similar. Judging solely on Howard Dean's comments, the democrats seem more left wing than I thought they were.

Edited by Cossack, 15 October 2006 - 05:22 PM.

[MSpencer]

Democracy without laws and with the ability to arrest anyone for no apparent reason is even worse than Iraq.
People who will listen and go like sheep along with bills that deprive them of their rights as guaranteed by the US Constitution are idiots.

[Airman]

Bush was put into office in a bad time. The terrorists hated his father, so now they hate him. The pressure has shifted and it's hard to handle everything at once.

[Drewry]

The solution is VERY simple. We can stop bills like this from being passed. However, we were very unfortunate for this bill as it was passed while no-one was looking. And once again 3/4 of the congressmen didnt even read it. Fucking bastards the lot are. However, bush is taking his time to sign it. To my knowlege he still hasn't signed it. We can protest like crazy to keep it from happening. We simply CANNOT let habeas corpus be suspended. It specifically says in the constitution NOT to. Without Habeas Corpus all of the other rights are meaningless. What good is freedom of speech, religion, press etc if you are in jail? What about your right to bear arm? Speedy trial? haha not when your already in jail. See my point?

[Hostile]

I was just watching CNN while eating lunch, and Wolfe Blitzer was interviewing Howard Dean, the chairman of the democratic party. Although you can never believe anything politicians say, he seemed like a pretty sensical guy.

He was saying how bush's tax cuts only affected the rich americans while the middle class payed the price, and how he wanted to raise minimum wage, something the republicans have refused to do. He also mentioned that Bush's primary enemies to be dealt with are Iran, Iraq and North Korea, and all of which have gotten more and more dangerous during Bush's term in office.

Maybe he's just saying stuff and not really meaning it, but I sure as hell think the democrats can do a better job than republicans, even though they are supposedly so similar. Judging solely on Howard Dean's comments, the democrats seem more left wing than I thought they were.

On the surface what you state appears to be true and I used to think the same way, but it is i fact incorrect and here is why.

The tax cuts didn't just help the rich, I'm middle class and my taxes went down. The median level of lower class who don't have to pay taxes was raised. More money in the hands of the people makes for better consumer spending than in the governments hands.

Raising the minimum wage actually hurts small business owners the most, payroll is the biggest financial liability for small business owners. Now if you want to talk about a tiered minimum wage for employees based on the revenue of the company, than I'll agree.

Raising the minimum wage, by say a $1, you essentially assured a number of mom and pop stores will go under, while major corporations simply take a hit. This results in ever more corporate control of consumer spending.

So it's really a matter of looking deeper than the surface. If McD's is a mega-corp, than thier minimum wage should be relative to thier earnings, not all companies are equal and cannot play by the same rules. But if nothing else, I believe it is time to raise it some. It's been a decade since it was raised.

I'd prefer my method but as of lately no one here in Washington DC cares what I say.

[Drewry]

Update: Well its too late. Bush has already signed the bill, and has officially become a law today.

The Military Commissions Act of 2006 is an Act of Congress (Number S.3930[1]) enacted by President George W. Bush on October 17, 2006. Created in the wake of the exposure of a formerly secret CIA interrogation program, it codifies in law controversial practices relating to the American detention and treatment of prisoners.

[MSpencer]

Mind's made up, emigrating next year to somewhere a little less authoritarian.

[duke_Qa]

wise choice that might be. i've been considering moving over there next year to observe an american election and get some education, but who knows. i might get it other places aswell.

[Airman]

Dear fellow Americans....

Be a good citizen and don't do anything to get the feds on your ass.

With advice
-Raz

[Silent_Killa]

Can't the supreme court still rule it unconstitutional? If not I have a very, very bad feeling about the next few years.

[Jeeves]

Don't bother moving to Australia, ASIO technically have more power than the US Gestapo, even if they don't have as good resources to utilise them.

[Cossack]

Yes, Ive heard from my friend that Australia is currently one of the most authoritarian countries in the western world, would you consider this true?

[Silent_Killa]

Probably, the UK is pretty bad from what I understand as well. Ah well, I'll see you all in the resistance