27 replies to this topic

[Juissi]

Heroes

Gil-Galad
Celebrimbor
Elrond
Oropher
Cirdan
Amdir
Glorfindel

Units
Archers of Noldor
Elven warriors
Royal Guard of Gil-Galad: Toggle between bow and sword
Lancers: Normal Cavalry
Cavalry Archers: can toggle between bow&sword
Battering ram
Catapult
Mirkwood archers
Mirkwood warriors
Lothlorien warriors
Lothlorien archers
Noldorian catapult
Noldorian battery ram

Structures
Barracks
Stables
Forge
Fortress
Walls
Statue
Well
Mallorn tree
Noldor siegeworks

Edited by Makaveli, 22 May 2007 - 05:20 PM.

[Lord Homer of Shire]

What does Glorfy doing there, he came back to ME first in the 3rd age

[Juissi]

Tolkiens writings tell us that Glorfindel came back at second age. This was quite debated thing when I first put these techtrees at Stealthsnakes forum.

[zimoo]

Yeah and back then you argued that he came back during the Third Age, and it was my 'opinion' that he didn't.

[Juissi]

Yea but that was back then Now I have understood that you were right

[Lord Homer of Shire]

The Problem of the Two Glorfindels

With the possible exception of Tom Bombadil's identity (and - of course - the wingedness or otherwise of Balrogs), there is no more hotly debated topic than the ultimate fate of Glorfindel. Were Glorfindel of Gondolin and Glorfindel of Rivendell the same person?

The only real resource we have to answer this question is in The Peoples of Middle-earth (The History of Middle-earth Vol. 12): XIII Last Writings, Glorfindel. Christopher Tolkien dates the notes he gives here at 1972, the year before his father's death.

These notes clear up one question immediately: at the time of the writing of The Lord of the Rings, Glorfindel of Rivendell was not conceived as the same character as Glorfindel of Gondolin. Tolkien says, 'Its use [i.e. the name 'Glorfindel'] in The Lord of the Rings is one of the cases of the somewhat random use of the names found in the older legends ... which escaped reconsideration in the final published form...'.

Tolkien was far from happy with this state of affairs, however, and it seems that he intended to reconcile the problem by uniting the two strands of the story. In summary, the notes tell us that Glorfindel's spirit returned to the Halls of Waiting, but was after a time re-embodied by the Valar. He then returned to Middle-earth (either in the mid-Second Age, or as a companion of the Istari in the Third). For the full story of his return, refer to The Peoples of Middle-earth.

The question of Glorfindel's identity, then, brings us to a much wider, and highly relevant, question. Can we accept a writer's personal notes, whether written in preparation for a published work, or simply for personal satisfaction, as part of that writer's 'canon'?

The importance of this question is highlighted by the essay entitled The Problem of Ros in the same volume of The History of Middle-earth. This is an extensive disposition on the origins and meaning of the syllable ros in names such as Elros. The details need not concern us here: what is relevant is the fact that, after its composition, Tolkien noticed a detail in the published Lord of the Rings that essentially negated the discussion. He dismissed the body of The Problem of Ros with four words; 'most of this fails'.

But what if he had not noticed this inconvenient fact (that Cair Andros had already been interpreted, and disagreed with his conclusions)? What if he had noticed, but had failed to record the fact? Would The Problem of Ros now be considered part of the 'Tolkienian' canon in the way that many regard the notes on Glorfindel? Questions like this show that we cannot simply take such notes on immediate face value.

Despite this, the Glorfindel notes lead many to see his re-embodiment and return to Middle-earth as 'fact' (and not a few have e-mailed us to remind us of this!) The purpose of this rather lengthy aside, though, is to show that we cannot view these 'events' in such concrete terms. This is the reason that the 'two Glorfindels' have separate entries on this site. This is not because we do not believe that Tolkien saw them as different embodiments of the same character (as we have seen, there are strong indications that he did), but simply because there is no definitive, published, proof of this.

that was what I found on EoA I believe he came with the Istari

[Juissi]

Yea well you believe that he came in Third Age and leader of this mod (me) believes that he came at Second Age and if Im not mistaken zimoo mentioned at BOG forum that Alatar and Pallando also came at Second Age if Im not mistaken.

[zimoo]

I did? O_o Must have been half asleep at the time, or must be half asleep now because I don't remember anything like that.

[Juissi]

Posted: Jan 8 2007, 08:15 PM
*Prepares to pwn*

In one of Tolkien's letters, he says that Glorfindel came with the Blue Wizards during the Second Age.

*Ends pwn*

There ya go

[zimoo]

:s

I haven't even read his letters. Fuck knows what I was thinking then

[Lord Homer of Shire]

The blue wizards came at teh same time as Gandy, Saruman and Radagast and ofc Glorfindel probably

[Juissi]

I dont know what is the idea of me saying that Glorfindel came at Second if you just keep telling that he came at Third. I might lock these techtrees now so that people can make thread if they have something that they wanna say because this kinda feels pointles you know what I mean.

[Lauri]

Don't lock it

it's your mod, and you decide what to add (still hearing opinions though)

I think that having Glorf is a great addition, cause I really like him, despite the fact that I know very little about him, and because I'd love to see him in a mod that doesn't concern T3A

[Juissi]

Thanks for the opinions Lauri
And Im thinking that I will propably do another model for him or atleast edit the existing one and then do major reskin which would change hair for example but I think that every model that has Glorfindel changes that

[Eonwe]

You think instead of calling them Noldor, they could have a land of reference

EX: Rivendell/Lindon.

I see Mirkwood, and Lorien already.

Maybe similar to the Khazad-Dum Tech Tree?

Edited by Lord of the Grunts, 12 June 2007 - 08:42 PM.

[Caluadan]

there could be a sort of basic infantry, where quite cheap swordsmen, spearmen and archers should belong. the current noldor warrior models fills the purpose of being the basic archers and swordsmen. windu's spearman model would complement this unit quite effectively.

[Juissi]

windu's spearman model would complement this unit quite effectively.

Some people may not know what you are talking about (anyone else other than me and you ) but I will clear this up real quick, Master Windu allowed us to use anything from his unfinished Second Age mod in Last Alliance But this doesnt mean that I will use EVERYTHING, it will just make the LA release faster I will still try to use Windus models as less as possible because I like making skins of my own but...yea
And yea I will think abou the elven units little later on Why does everyone want to give ideas for faction that aint going to be worked on for somewhile

[Caluadan]

alright I'll stop thinking about those awesome elves

[Elvenlord]

Because the elves are AWESOME!!!!!
Everybody loves the elves.

[Caluadan]

Elvenlord well Numenor is awesome too, and they have to get an evil enemy quickly.