32 replies to this topic

[thudo]

o SM Dread = Current build I removed the AI's option to build Assault Cannon. It can build, however, the Lascannon in later tiers. I agree about limiting SM Dread upgrades.
o Necron Tomb Spyder = it's hardpoint was always disabled for the AI to use so np there.
o Eldar WraithLord = hmmm.. I'd have to run a poll on this one and ask the testers what they think? Have to ponder this.

[thudo]

Poll added!

[dreddnott]

Can't seem to vote but that's ok.

The Wraithlord honestly is not that much of an issue, it already has a Starcannon and doesn't lose DPS from upgrading to the Brightlance. It would only be a big deal if the AI spent req/power on it instead of something it needed more, but it's not that expensive.

[thudo]

Ok so essentially its more the SM Dread should definitely NOT upgrade its hardpoints.. Its meant as a CC beast!

[jureidinim]

Ok so essentially its more the SM Dread should definitely NOT upgrade its hardpoints.. Its meant as a CC beast!

Never upgrade or just a deferred upgrade? Wouldn't want it to be that the AI *never* does an upgrade. The upgrade at least allows it some form of range attack against units that will dance away from it.

[LarkinVB]

Make the upgrade random by a small percentage, only while the dread is at full health, at home and the enemies major armorclass is matching the upgrades best effectiveness.

[Haree]

Can I just say that the poll may be misinterpreted by some. Some may think it means YES to upgrade, or others like myself think it means YES to NOT upgrading.

My 2 pennies, I agree they shouldn't upgrade like they do now but I'd like to see on small occassions the dreads upgraded because in a massive force not all the force can get in to CC anyway so the extra fire support is useful if the dread is in the middle or back of the bunch.

[thudo]

I still think the SM Dread SHOULD only upgrade its Lascannon in Tier3+.. by then the SM have more than enough hardware to get the job done. Otherwise, don't let the SM Dread upgrade because its Lascannon anti-vehicle role would be met by either the Hellfire OR Predator. I think we're all over-analysing this.

I mean come on.. the SM in DoW/WA/DC/SS has always been the most balanced dominant all-around excellent faction. Do we honestly need to nitpik over this one unit? I suggest disallow the Assault Cannon but allow the Lascannon in Tier3+. Done!

[Quitch]

IMO, the only time to upgrade a dred is if you built them to take on foe A, foe A is dead and now they're inappropriate for foe B... and by that point you just orbital drop them next to buildings and the upgrade is still a waste of time. IMO, you never upgrade them because there is always a better option. At the very least ban the lascannon, WTF use is that? The dred in CC DESTROYS buildings, so what is the lascannon for?

If the dred has a need to upgrade, well the AI has lost because it clearly built the wrong unit. For assault canno style work you use the hellfire, for lascannons you use missile marines or the predator. In the early game the Dred is tough and a CC monster, in the late game you orbital drop it next to buildings in twos or threes and rip bases apart. There is never a need for a ranged weapon, it's just an expensive way to cripple your unit.

The Eldar Wraithlord on the other hand is a different kettle of fish. That's a nice upgrade, it's just that currently the AI grabs it regardless. If it's facing heavy infantry there's no point, but once enemies pump out the vehicles enmasse it's more of a priority. The AI just needs to be smarter here rather than hitting upgrade ASAP.

Edited by Quitch, 11 March 2008 - 07:05 PM.

[thudo]

The problem is the AI's scripts to upgrade their hardpoints are based on what the enemy has the most of in the entire game -- not locally to the upgrading unit. Normally, we upgrade a unit based what we see the enemy has from either a prior engagement OR as we experience them. But, the AI, like most games on the market, CAN SEE THE ENTIRE MAP, so it knows where everything is thus upgrades its units based on that so...

So its the following:

1) We keep the Dread "as is" to upgrade any of its hardpoints it chooses
2) We disallow the Assault Cannon but allow the Lascannon (which is in Tier3 anyway + Lascannon is good vs building/vehicles)
3) We disallow all hardpoint upgrades making the SM Dread totally CC.

[Smokeskin]

In general, I'd say don't upgrade the SM dread.

It is only justified if you're facing an opponent that constantly dances away from your dread so it never makes contact - with just one CC arm you're still scary enough to make him dance and that disrupts him, and you're doing some damage at the same time. But if the dread ever makes contact, you're much better off without the upgrades.

In most cases unupgraded are much better, and I don't think it is feasible to have the AI identify the rare cases when those resources wouldn't be better spent on something else.

[Quitch]

Yes, SM dred upgrades are definitely special case scenarios.

The Lascannon is a waste of time, a bigger one than the assault cannon since buildings can't run away. I vote for 3.

[thudo]

Ok.. we'll discuss this among the AI devs before we release to the testers..