62 replies to this topic

[Psychobabas]

Hi there AI team!

First of all congrats for this AI. It's by far the best mod AI I have played against in ANY strategy game (Even AMAI for warcraft 3). I've been playing it since version 2.1.

Do you have any immediate plans for Soulstorm? I mean, are you already ready to embrace this badboy expansion and mod the AI? Do you think you will encounter any difficulties?

Thanks again!

[thudo]

Objectives when SS comes out tomorrow (for most places):

Since SS is now out I can spill my silence..

1) Both DarkEldar and Sisters factions are actually 100% Advanced AI coded and playtested - I just have to compare the final SS release with my own.

2) All existing DC factions are also all Advanced AI updated including their fliers - these have also been playtested.

Once I acquire the final SS release, I will ensure the faction work is done then Arkhan or Larkin can have a quick peek at the core AI logic. I want to ensure 100% that the faction data itself is ready for them.

Everything is basically planned out but unlike all previous releases and expansions, I sorta cheated to get the AI ready much sooner than all other post-new expansion releases combined. Its good to have done one's homework as we can deliver competitive DoW SS AI in record time.

[Psychobabas]

Awesome!

I cant wait for your AI.
To be honest, since I actually know friends in person who play DoW we think that your mod and the game go pretty much hand-in-hand. I believe it's due to the bad (in my opinion) multiplayer, which I think is the reason this game didn't become a Starcraft or a Warcraft 3.

Edited by Psychobabas, 04 March 2008 - 11:56 PM.

[thudo]

Thanks Psychobabas.. this project is a TEAM endeavour.. its a passion of ours for sure which I hope will allow us to carry it forth down the road to a possible DoW2 in '09.

[Zenoth]

Thudo, will the A.I changes from the mod also apply to the campaign A.I for this one? If I remember correctly, it worked fine with DC's campaign, but the only problem was the missing cut-scenes due to a different folder structure. I should be available for proper testing, if need be, for Soulstorm as soon as I get it, of course, which should be by the end of this week, or during this upcoming week-end.

[thudo]

No clue.. we can only control so much AI-wise in the campaign.

[McCloud]

I'm really Looking Forward To SS AI. Kudos to Thudo and the crew for making one of the best RTS Ai mods I've ever played. Dawn of war would have not have been nearly as fun without this mod for me.

[thudo]

Update..

I received my copy of SS today..

Extracted both its War40k's attrib and DXP2's attrib.. merged the DXP2 one so all elements are accounted for.

Did a side-by-side comparison with previous SS work I had.

Result?

I'll be handing the SS AI over to the rest of the Advanced AI team in a couple of days. Yep.. there were HARDLY ANY CHANGES!

What does this all mean?

The DoW/WA/DC/SS community will get advanced AI alot faster then they thought because most of the boring integration work was done many months back. Now some more interesting core logic AI will need to be studied and implemented.

This can occur much quicker in the next couple of days.

[LarkinVB]

I'm interested. My 'copy' will be ready soon. Feel free to send the AI asap.

[thudo]

Thanks Larkin.. Both you and Arkhan will get it asap. Just updating it as we speak then will run some playtests tonight. Of course its not 100% perfect (ie. the new air_low, air_med, and air_high will have to be coded into the new logic because if the AI sees it has a air_*** class it won't build the unit.).

Also, IL coded the NecronLord to become EITHER the NightBringer OR Deceiver but in the SS I was using the AI did not have the hardcode to know when to spawn into either. Hope IL fixed that. Also, the Deceiver's abilities are DAMN EXTENSION ABILITIES!!!!!!! Bahhhhhhhhhh! So the Deceiver under the control of the AI cannot, say, conjure a false Monolith! I HATE EXTENSION ABILITIES!!!!

Anyway, these are things I am gonna talk with the Relic execs about now that SS is out (this was what I was told to do original from my IL contacts back in November).

[LarkinVB]

Just curious. Are you playing DoW ? I'm more interested in coding or watching replays then in playing the game. My last serious battle was most likely more than a year ago. My slow reflexes at high age make me feel like a noob every time I played online.

It is a shame that they did not build an API for extension abilities. Even more shame for not fixing the thread on path functions. This is taking away a lot of AI capabilities. I hate to see AI armies running through enemies, loosing all they have just because they could not evalute the thread on their path. Arkhan did his best to code some workarounds but the AI is soooo weak on lots of twisted maps because of this. AI game breaker for me in a way. On the other hand Relic and their first AI coder Bigfoot did a great job on the basic AI API. Sad he was only around in the very beginning. He was a talent.

Edited by LarkinVB, 06 March 2008 - 04:44 PM.

[thudo]

No time to. I generally playtest a vanilla or user-created faction on a first run, study it, code it, playtest it against other factions, submit it to the testers, and 9/10s its generally always about as it should. Only a very small few find the AI easy even on INSANE which I think is just plain nuts. I have a hard time even on HARD let alone anything higher.

[LarkinVB]

Quite different with the lots playing dcpro. I had to recognize that real good players find the AI a breeze, even at insane. It is just too predictable and prone to loosing initial encounters to the harass good players will do. I'm more campy and the AI does like that. Harder and insane will beat me easily.

[thudo]

Well then whats stopping the Vanilla Advanced AI from being as competitive? Is it our current scripts OR something to do with DoWPro's superior gameplay mechanics? I'm thinking mostly the latter since I love what Korbah has done with Pro.. its truly genius. Anything we can do to work with Arkhan to make the vanilla Advanced AI as scary to intermediate players I would like to discuss.

[jureidinim]

Glad to hear you guys got a head start on the AI and it's mostly portable over to SS.

I got my copy yesterday, and am enjoying it.. but the same old AI nonsense is there to some degree..
The biggest flaw (which I cannot understand how Relic/IronLore allows this) is none of the AI's seem to want to build vehicles - except the Sisters of Battle. The others just spam infantry, sit around with tons of Power and req, and WILL not build vehicles. Just plain ridiculous.
Except for the Sisters of Battle - no other AI team builds it's super unit..

Are they trying to say that the whole vehicle tech tree and superunits are a waste of time??


Every DOW expansion seems to be the same AI-wise.. the new faction(s) gets a bit more love and so seems to dominate.

I cringed when I watched an AI Space marine team have 2000 in req and power.. and instead of building the vehicle bay.. it builds a third(!!) barracks building.. sad...
Eldar bases seems to have only 3 buildings.. tops.. lol

Same old AI camping out at Req points doing nothing syndrome is back...

Really looking forward to the AI from you guys, and even Larkin/Korbah for DCPro.

[thudo]

The others just spam infantry, sit around with tons of Power and req, and WILL not build vehicles. Just plain ridiculous.
Except for the Sisters of Battle - no other AI team builds it's super unit..

Passshhh.. gawd thats sooo 2005! Har har.. Don't worry Jureidinim.. those sort of issues are beyond trite to the Advanced AI variant.

Well we'll need some beta testers so hopefully some of our old favs like Zenoth and perhaps some new ones can come onboard to help us test.

The multiplayer component is another issue that the Firestorm team has been helping us out with. They came to some conclusions which might allow for HEROES to be enabled but AI Donations is still unknown.

[Zenoth]

I bought my copy after work earlier today (good thing, there were only three copies left!). I didn't have much time to test it though, too many things to do at home. I actually just finished installing it only two or three hours ago. I played the demo a couple of times, so I had time to get acquainted with the Dark Eldar. I just started the campaign to get an early look at the Sisters of Battle. I still haven't seen the Space Marines, Necrons and Orks' new units.

With some time and a couple of skirmishes I should have explored everything by tomorrow, after my shift is over (I don't feel like working now that I got this game in my hands dammit!). I'll be ready for proper good ol' testing with reports posting like the early DC days, I can't wait to see what you guys cooked for Soulstorm

Drop me a PM or just let me know here when it's all ready to get tested. I still have the URL for the private server from which I used to get the files Thudo, so if I have to go there just please let me know as well.

Now I need some sleep

[ThetaOrion]

Well, I'm just glad that Thud and his team are ready and willing to do the whole AI process all over again.

I wouldn't even bother buying SoulStorm, if it weren't for Thud and his team and their plans to continue making a playable AI for the game.

Relic's AI simply got worse and worse with each expansion that they released, and jureidinim and others make it sound as if IronLore did no better this time around with SoulStorm.

I don't play computer games as much as I used to, but I still am of the opinion that a RTS computer game isn't worth buying if it doesn't have a semi-decent AI for Skirmish Mode gameplay. And, how long has it been now since Relic last put out a semi-tolerable AI?

[ThetaOrion]

--

In the old days, I used to play against the Relic AI as sort of a way to get me ready for this one here.

I played against the DoW AI for about a year before I found this better AI Mod here.

I played against the WA AI for about three months before I came here looking for something better.

I lasted about three days against the DC AI, and then I was already wanting and ready for this AI Mod and its superior nature.

From what I have already read about SoulStorm, I don't even have any plans to play against IronLore's AI; I'll just wait for this AI here to be released before I start looking to buy and play the game. I don't even plan on playing against the Relic/IronLore AI ever.

[thudo]

Working on finalizing Advanced SS AI in the next day. Then I'll hand it over to Larkin/Arkhan for inspection for more advanced scripts. Just want to ensure on my end its pretty much perfect. So far the only hiccup is the Rekindle Rage ability of the DE's HQ.. it causes a CTD late in Tier4.. kinda wierd but thats the only problem right now so I disabled the AI's use of that one ability. No biggie. More details coming soon.. After all, its VERY early in the stage as a lot of countries still do not have SS stocked on shelves.