34 replies to this topic

[Rentt Redwood]

Now...I've kinda made this topic more to get some ideas on what you hope they will tell in RA3 in the story and locations you hope they'll take place with the story. This could be anything you think they should bring up or put it. Now, you can't say RA isn't about story because even RA2 had a story going with it. Course this will change as they give more of the story to us, I'm sure. This is more of a praising and complaining topic, too. So, add your thoughts on what they have done so far. I'm kinda curious as to what people think and don't mind if we disagree on something.

Now, one thing I've been rather annoyed with is the stuff missing from RA2 that was in RA story that haven't been explained. RA3 seems to also go along with this. I'm read a few things and have come to understand that they believe that RA is just some wacky RTS game with not so much of a story, but just a bunch of wacky units. This is what I get from reading some interviews, but not saying they aren't putting effort into the game. More like...they are making for plot...well, holes. Yet, they try to fix Tiberium a bit, so the fans stop crying over why CABAL suddenly was forgotten to an extent.

I guess I'm just annoyed by how they label they seem to forget how the first RA was.. Ah, well. Your thoughts on everything? (rants to my thoughts and your thoughts on RA3)

[TX1138]

Knowing the (new) EA, RA3 will explain some of the 'missing' units in pretty much the same way they did in TW.

[some_weirdGuy]

which was how? i don't have C&C3

i think they are concentrating to much on navy, its a sad excuse to make up for all the lack of navy and everyone knows it...
i hope we see some funny cameo's, and that they don't just decide to ignore some facts from previous games

i don't think they will skimp out on story line, but i do feel that they might go too far with the 'wacky' units...

[ambershee]

They cut every unit from Tiberian Sun.

EVERY unit. They only left in stuff from the original CnC, and then made the excuse that none of the esoteric technologies employed (subterranean units, mechs, various specific tech units) were viable in the field, despite having been staple units in Tiberian Sun. They then went on to include a mech for Nod, but not GDI whose staple units were the Wolverine and Titan and super unit was the Mammoth Mark 2 (all Mechs) in TS, and included the Juggernaut, even though they had denounced FireStorm as not being canonical in the CnC universe...

/facepalm.

Edited by ambershee, 18 March 2008 - 11:00 AM.

[TX1138]

*cough*STEALTH TANK*cough*

EA never said that Firestorm was not canonical to the C&C universe. The whole point of Kane's Wrath is to link Firestorm and Tiberium Wars. May I also remind you that just about all the units in Tiberian Dawn were cut out in Tiberian Sun. Lean some facts before attacking EA.

Edited by TX1138, 18 March 2008 - 09:29 PM.

[ambershee]

*cough*IN THE FIRST GAME*cough*

The stealth tank was in the first CnC - I said none of the units made a transition from Tiberian Sun. Don't try and call me out when your facts aren't straight either.

Kane's Wrath may well supposedly link FireStorm and Tiberium Wars, but it's evident that wasn't likely the intention in Tiberium Wars. I'm fairly sure there's an interview out there that states that the story picks up from the end of the Tiberian Sun GDI campaign. This is also evident from Nod 'rising up again', when they were never defeated at the end of FireStorm.

Edited by ambershee, 18 March 2008 - 12:01 PM.

[Daz]

I think we all know KW only has the story it has because people complained so much about the big gap with bizarre things happening.
Personally I think they've broken it now and should just carry on as they were with TW, I really don't think they can explain away 90% of TS and trying to do so will just cause more plotholes.

That's why RA3's basis is so random, noone can really complain that it's wrong because it's in an alternate universe to the previous games - they can pick and chose whatever the hell they like and there's no basis to dispute it anymore because there isn't a linear canon.

No prism tech? Oh, the Allies don't have that in this timeline.
Identical Kirovs? Erm, coincidence..?

[Rentt Redwood]

I've noticed that, though. Each Red Alert game is an alternate universe compared to the other. RA2 seems more like an alternate universe to RA1 to me, really. That's how explain it to myself, anyways.

Wait, when was this about C&C3? Not to say you can't talk about it, but you should keep it to RA3 as this topic goes on. I agree that they really screwed up when they made C&C3 and now they are trying to "patch" it back up with Kane's Wrath...BUT...we'll just have to see if they did an alright job at this "patching" of the storyline.

And, being that RA3 is an alternate universe to RA2...which is kinda annoying, I think THAT is all they are going to do to explain why things are missing. Someone died, technology is gone. That is pretty much how it'll roll, right? You'd think they'd went back in time to kill Tanya off, since she seems to wreck a lot of Soviet plans.

[OmegaBolt]

Personally I think they did good with C&C3. TD tech was always amazingly cooler than TS stuff, which was pathetic imo and rather too much sci-fi. C&C3 is far more grittier and "down and dirty", with tanks rather than mechs. Plus the Juggernaut is beautifully animated.

Ra3 keeps growing on me, and I don't really care what is missing from Ra2 as that betrayed Ra1 anyway. In the end, i'm sure it will be pretty good and unique, whether or not it has more time travelling or Kane.

[ambershee]

Amazingly cooler?

You'd think people would be over 'Big tank, Little tank' RTS by now >.<

[TX1138]

You'd think people would be over 'Big tank, Little tank' RTS by now >.<

Well, considering that C&C3 won many 'Best RTS Game' awards, obviously not.

[some_weirdGuy]

well prism tech is gone because Einstein is gone, he was the sole creator of it.

removing Einstein and not getting rid of most of the allies tech would make no sense

they couldn't get rid of chrono though, as its pretty essential to the story line, and the icon of the allies

allies have chrono, soviets have tesla, they are iconic

prism wasn't in the first game (was it?), so yeah, and there are what? two prism things, prism tower and prism tank... not that big a loss really when you think about it





people would be complaining if they kept all allied tech, saying "but thats stupid, without Einstein that wouldn't have been made!", get rid of too much(chrono) and everyone would be complaining saying they have ruined the game by taking away everything

its a delicate balance...

[Daz]

Or they could have come up with a good story basis and not had the problem at all?
Bit much effort in that though isn't there.

And yeah OmegeBolt - I much preferred TD to TS too (I hated most of TS infact), but you can't make a new addition to a series and basically write out most of the last game.
It's just not cricket.

[OmegaBolt]

You'd think people would be over 'Big tank, Little tank' RTS by now >.<

And theres a difference between that and 'Big leg, little leg'? At least when theres an actual mixture of types (Tanks and still Juggernaut) it's a lot more interesting. Plus, personally, mechs suit Nod more as they are generally weaker but higher tech in weaponry.

As with Ra3, Allies shouldn't be super high tech. Although Chrono is pretty techy, it isn't all lasers and plasma. Allies should be more Ra1 style than they were in Ra2.

[Daz]

All of it should be more RA1 style but it isn't because with RA2 Westwood decided Red Alert had to be utterly mental.

[ambershee]

The gameplay in TD was definitely better, I shan't deny it.

As for the Tiberian Sun reference - it's not 'Big Tank, Little Tank', because the units have a lot of different aspects - for instance:

Locomotion varied significantly between units, affecting where they could and couldn't go and how they were affected by enemy fire and terrain. Walkers would move at a more constant rate through all terrain, whereas wheeled and tracked vehicles would be affected by inclines and rough terrain, hover vehicles were not affected by inclines and could navigate over rough terrain and water, subterranean units could navigate under intermediate blockages between two points where terrain would allow them to move. In CnC 3, all ground units can pretty much move over everything the same way, offering no distinction between the units.

Weapons were more varied between units, affecting how they could damage the enemy, and how reliable they would be. Lasers and bullets would travel point to point, and shells are trajectory based and reasonably accurate, missiles were generally like shells. Discs could bounce and make use of the terrain, thrown up cliffs through line of sight, or down hills to make use of extra range. Disruptors, Flames and Rails had to be used smartly because they would cut through all units between the firer and the target, regardless of faction. In CnC 3, there is some variation, thankfully, but the majority of weapons fall under 'point-to-point', 'lobbed shell', 'direct shell' or 'missile', lacking the subtle differences which made the difference.

I can pick out a lot of things.

CnC3's unit interactivity was good, but it lost out on making them interesting, because they behaved in a very predictable fashion that could be applied as a general rule. This is where 'Big Tank, Little Tank' comes in - the units are quintessentially, all the same, but with either a better or worse weapon, better or worse armour, better or worse speed than one another.

A much better example of this is 'World in Conflict' - the units really don't vary at all, it's one thing or another, and Supreme Commander, where once you reach a tier, all former units become redundant.

[Rentt Redwood]

All of it should be more RA1 style but it isn't because with RA2 Westwood decided Red Alert had to be utterly mental.

I think that is where my story comment comes in. They didn't just decide that Red Alert was mental, but they've pretty much ignored the entire story other than it was Allies vs. Soviet. They've ignored pretty much all of the Red Alert story. I'm sure Westwood would have fixed it better, but we got EA and they probably wont even think about it. So, yeah.

Moving on to what Omegabolt said, I think the Allies are kinda...bleh, now. I mean, I hated the Prism and all that....BUT, they have lost most of their Chrono tech and that has made them sound rather weak. The only thing I can think of that would back them up is if they were to keep up their Navy like they did in the other games. I doubt they will, so Allies aren't looking good for me even if they are bringing some of their units back.

[OmegaBolt]

they have lost most of their Chrono tech

In Ra1 Allies only had the Chronosphere (Except the expansion) which was far cooler than having loads of different units using it, imo.

[Joszef]

jesus its been a while since i chatted on revora...anyway to this topic, the allies had lost their prism tech...so? the allies i've heard that the allies had been using cryo tech, better if u ask me. the soviets seem to have 'progressed' a little better than last time. the allies have a ship that acts like a tank on land! thats cool! and they still have their mirage tanks.

this new side, seems a bit odd to me but I like what im seeing so far. the allies needed to be a little weak anyway. they always overpowered the soviets which was stupid espically in RA2, normal allied GI's once deployed destroyed anything that can into their range in matter of seconds. its good that conscripts are still here, (though i would rather have them as Red Guards but its westwoods work)

i would like to see the 'controlabe' soviet MiGs back in action! what im seeing so far from the soviets so far is their advanced weapons not their basic ones...besides the conscripts, i cant wait to see their other tanks...i think they could have made the apoc's more like MO's apoc, their huge and scarier. as for the allies, they can have cryo tanks or something like that.

I've played C&C3, and i think its the best game i've played for a hell a long time, and still probably will be the best until RA3 is out. now all we can do is wait.

[Paladin58]

well prism tech is gone because Einstein is gone, he was the sole creator of it.

removing Einstein and not getting rid of most of the allies tech would make no sense

they couldn't get rid of chrono though, as its pretty essential to the story line, and the icon of the allies

allies have chrono, soviets have tesla, they are iconic

prism wasn't in the first game (was it?), so yeah, and there are what? two prism things, prism tower and prism tank... not that big a loss really when you think about it





people would be complaining if they kept all allied tech, saying "but thats stupid, without Einstein that wouldn't have been made!", get rid of too much(chrono) and everyone would be complaining saying they have ruined the game by taking away everything

its a delicate balance...

Of course, they could always pop up the Jigsaw Theory of Time-Travel, where even if something in the past is altered, the flow of time is repaired by relegating the duties of whatever it was that was altered to someone or something else. It is a viable option, since they are going all cartoony with it.