68 replies to this topic

[Crusard]

I forgot to add 4) the textures and general graphics in bfme1 stink compared to bfme2

BFME1 wins? =

Edited by Crusard, 28 April 2009 - 05:04 PM.

[Gfire]

Well, the mod will need pretty new textures for most the units anyway.

Water is a lot nicer in BFME2, though.

[Elvenlord]

At least bfme1 is consistent. All of the textures are terrible
Unlike bfme2, where you can have nice-looking elven units standing next to the old bfme1 legolas.

I think it's going to come down to whether you want the bases of bfme1 or not.

[The 10th Rider]

Well, if models and 2d art can be used for either one, why not have one for BFME 1 and one for BFME 2?

[Kwen]

because they are made entirely differently... While they still may have the same units the buildings are done different, the bases are different, addition of ring heroes... the entire structure of the game is different (structure not engine )

[Lauri]

You should really all decide on some factors, and take no other things into account;
Yeah, I will likely forget some things

Do you want Bases or Build anywhere?
Do you want Naval combat? (broken as it is in BFME2)
Do you want Ring heroes? (or make some kinda benefit when capturing, say, a drunk pirate roaming the map)
Do you want to kitbash buildings?
Do you want to kitbash\make animations?
Do you want CaH?
Do you want (a potential) WotR mode?
Do you want a living world map campaign or a "next-map" campaign?

RJ-campaign isn't included
Things like that are the important ones... How the units look in the different games doesnt' matter, because you won't be using them anyways... The ones you'll likely to use are horses, and they look fine in both games... (RotWK is already a dead vote )

Organised structure of units? Hell, that's what you make...

Anyways, the only reason I voted BFME2 (I remembered ) was because of CaH... That's something that you really could use to the benefit of the mod... Say, after 6 years of modding, and you have 8 completely new factions in the mod, think about having 8 different kinds of CaH (Viking, Greek, British, Japanese, ect), and having a couple of sub-categories in them (Norwegian viking, danish, swedish... would probably differ in clothing with flags of their country... could be pretty cool... no, would be pretty cool )... Then think about the loads of different arms and armour they could have, and powers! Powers! No more cloning powers for all the good guys and bad guys... Unique powers for each class!

Gah, now I wanna make a CaH mod... crap

[Crusard]

Even though CaHs really are an awesome feature (which EA could have done a lot better btw), this project is already big enough as it is. So this feature, if ever developed, would be one of the final additions.

What I like about bfme2 is the ability to build everywhere, and that the gameplay is a lot more fluent. That's just a subjective opinion, but when you look at other things like the terrain textures you'll see there's a huge difference in quality (it's like EA had 5 year olds drawing the grass by the time they made bfme1). Plus if we use BFME2 we get all textures together. Same goes for worldbuilder functions, and a whole list of real improvements...

When voting in the poll, keep the engine in mind, not your bfme gameplay preference!
And yes, I *strongly* believe we should use the BFME2 engine

Edited by Crusard, 28 April 2009 - 08:08 PM.

[Lauri]

Same engine...

And you should base if off your gameplay preference, because if you love the BFME1 gameplay, but hate the BFME2 gameplay (kinda like I almost do), I wouldn't go for BFME2 just because it has a few prettier terrain textures... c'mon, put some real reasons into it
Worldbuilder functions, that's a valid point

Oh, and I'd like to see your list of real improvements, because in my eyes (and I'd guess 50\50 of the users) there are more "diprovements" than improvements...

BFME1 and 2 have more differences in gameplay than engine IMO

[Neutron4ever]

I voted BFME2 but I think BFME 1 would be better since it has that movie feel to it and I sorta like BFME1 battles better...

[Gfire]

Well, I don't think the mod should resemble the LotR movies

But I'm still for BFME1. But it doesn't really matter. You could have BFME1-like gameplay with BFME2 if you wanted: It would just mean you couldn't really use the BFME2 maps. Being based outside of Middle Earth, it would be better to have all new maps anyway. But that's a lot of mapping just to get the mod playable. A good ten maps would probably be needed by the first release, and at least one before any testing can happen.

You could shift the BFME1 maps over for early testing, though, I think, or quickly add some outposts and camps to the BFME2 maps.

It's a little more work in the beginning but it would allow you have BFME1 gameplay if desired and still have BFME2's larger set of kitbashing resources.

Or you could have something like the RJ maps; both BFME1 and BFME2 maps for the player to choose from. This would be even more work, though.

[Radspakr Wolfbane]

The vote is getting close.
The Naval combat could be a key point in say the Viking faction.
If I hadn't elected to Null vote all polls in this project I would actually go BFME2 even though I prefer BFME1 as a game.
You can do more in BFME2.

[The 10th Rider]

I was saying that any models or skins or 2d images could be re-used for a BFME1 or BFME2 mod, so why not have one for each of those two games? the coders and everything could be totally different still.

[Crusard]

Again, I suggest gameplay shouldn't be taken into account, as this will be a total conversion. We can choose bfme1's base building if you like, and even use a new resource system (which I also strongly suggest, to improve the mod's ambience and separate it further from BFME).

Now here's some reasons I'd rather use BFME2's engine (Improved sage engine)

- More textures with better design quality
- Advanced shaders (better bump mapping, blur effects, bloom lightning, etc)
- More worldbuilder funcions and script possibilities
- More coding capabilities
- Naval combat
- WotR

And I'll say it again, this mod's purpose (I think) is to look nothing like BFME2 or BFME1. We're making a whole new thing, something different, that's why you should not be thinking of those two *games* as they are, and start thinking engine-wise

[The 10th Rider]

That was... ... touching NOT, well anyway you do have a point there, I just wanna use BFME2 becuase I don't have BFME1

[Námo]

You should really all decide on some factors, and take no other things into account
...
Do you want Bases or Build anywhere?
Do you want Naval combat? (broken as it is in BFME2)
Do you want Ring heroes? (or make some kinda benefit when capturing, say, a drunk pirate roaming the map)
Do you want to kitbash buildings?
Do you want to kitbash\make animations?
Do you want CaH?
Do you want (a potential) WotR mode?
Do you want a living world map campaign or a "next-map" campaign?
...

Bases for sure, and you can add some limited 'Build anywhere' in BfME1, too. IMO the bases of BfME1 are far better than the Fortress/Wall-system of BfME2, for these reasons:

• REALISM: The normal 'no-name' bases/fortress should be simple, like in BfME1 - the ones reflecting 'named' places should be pre-build (like Minas Tirith, Helm's Deep, Dol Guldur etc.)
• SCALE: The relation between 'area of bases' and 'area of the entire map' are IMO not very well balanced, even in BfME1 - with the wall-system of BfME2 that balance gets far worse, the map being far too crowded with structures.

I think it's going to come down to whether you want the bases of bfme1 or not.

... well, not the only reason, but for me a decisive one.

Naval combat? NO ... even being mostly interested in a viking faction: NO

Do you want Ring heroes? I'm quite sure that only will work in Tolkien's World.

[Do you want to kitbash buildings?] & [Do you want to kitbash\make animations?] ? dosn't affect gameplay.

Do you want CaH? NO NO NO - Being a Tolkien 'purist' I really don't like those bastards - just wanna kill them all, and forever. I don't see much improvement for a historical TC-mod using those, apart from the considerable extra workload (Cah-class Ninja and whatever?) I think there are already too much on the plate, to be honest.

... this project is already big enough as it is ...

Do you want (a potential) WotR mode? - sure that would be nice but then ... RotWK? (the quote above also applies to this one too)

Do you want a living world map campaign or a "next-map" campaign? - Easy choice: A 'non-linear' living world map campaign, for sure. And that means that the mod should be confined to an area, which are geographical limited, preferable some islands ... and that's exactly why I did propose 'the British Isles' see this post

------------

... And you should base if off your gameplay preference, because if you love the BFME1 gameplay, but hate the BFME2 gameplay (kinda like I almost do), I wouldn't go for BFME2 just because it has a few prettier terrain textures... c'mon, put some real reasons into it ...

True, feelings count too - Being a Tolkien 'purist' I love the BFME1 gameplay, despite the poor graphics, and I (almost) hate the BFME2 gameplay, partly because of all the non-Tolkien stuff that EA added. I just can't forgive them what they did to the game - What a golden opportunity to make a really great game, and they just ruined it!

[Lauri]

- More textures with better design quality
- Advanced shaders (better bump mapping, blur effects, bloom lightning, etc)
- More worldbuilder funcions and script possibilities
- More coding capabilities
- Naval combat
- WotR

Good points However, you say yourself that every unit and building will be replaced, so what's the deal with more textures? To kitbash? Or only terrain?

And I'll say it again, this mod's purpose (I think) is to look nothing like BFME2 or BFME1. We're making a whole new thing, something different, that's why you should not be thinking of those two *games* as they are, and start thinking engine-wise

Again, the gameplay is different from the two, with things like added Naval warfare and Build Anywhere, and Cah... Ring heroes too

Oh, and CaH isn't about creating known soldiers or kings or captains, it's about creating fictional... And wouldn't you like to design your own captain?

[Gfire]

Naval warfare really would be great for a Norse faction.

[The 10th Rider]

CaH would be really really nice.

[Crusard]

I see most people still don't get my point here, just stop thinking "I want BFME1 because I love tolkien!", this will have nothing to do with bfme! -.-

Lauri: Yeah, I mean only terrain textures.

And as I mentioned earlier, CaHs are an awesome feature, but it takes a lot of work to develop (again, we won't have unlimited workpower on this project).

Edited by Crusard, 29 April 2009 - 07:38 PM.

[Neutron4ever]

We'll need BFME2's naval warfare though the unit design of BFME1 is different from BFME2, where BFME1 has much better looking battles.

BFME2 wins because of it's features
Also, for WOTR we should make it sort of like the campaign mode in RTW