23 replies to this topic

[Predi]

Hello there!

Just to make an example, I'll use the subforums properly
Now... I'd like the Nazgúls to be more stronger, but not to be superman, and I had some interesting ideas that I posted some time ago. So to make things simple I just copy those posts:

I just read the topic about the fellbeast death animation, and something just came into my mind. It's not about animation but about fellbeasts.

Would it be possible to make them an ability to fly off the screen upwards, but still be controllable? If I remember correctly, when we summon eagles they fly in from the sky, so maybe that could be reversable. The point of it is: when the fellbeasts fly "upscreen" the couldn't attack, but they'll have a lot more viewrange. And when you know what's coming you just order them to fly back. Like a toggle. that would be useful, and it makes perfect sense (at least to me) and Mordor would have a very good scout/observer unit.

I just played a match with Mordor, and here's a pretty good and easy suggestion. When you summon a Nazgúl and the orcs see him/it (I dunno which is more suitable) they all start cheering. Wouldn't it be more realistic if they do a fear animation instead? It was in the books, and mentioned in the movie too, that the orcs too crapped their pants when they saw a Nazgúl. Maybe not just the orcs should but every allied and enemy unit too, except the elves because they don't fear from anything. That wouldn't have to give them any bonuses or anything. Just for a little show, and maybe a one second halt in the enemy's advance. I mean it would be great when you saw the whole enemy army attacking your army and when they get close, and saw the Nazgúls, they pause for a second and the whole army tremble in fear. Just for a second. Wow, thats some scene.
But the whole point in this suggestion, is to replace the orcs cheering animation with fear animation. The others just my imagination (but still good ideas)
Because Nazgúls are frightening. Just take a look at the mastermind behind this whole mod! biggrin.gif

And a new thought: how about to make them more resistant to every weapon (swords and bows and siege, mainly when they are on foot, because the horse is vulnerable), even invulnerable, but weaker against upgraded weapons (especially fire damage) and heroes.
Now this is a start for a little brainstorming. Everybody who likes the Ringwraiths must have something in mind that should improve them. Mordor needs some upgrades now that Rhún and Harad left them.

Hope everyone having a great day, 'cos it's raining at our place.
Bye y'all

[Nazgûl]

1) Thanks for posting correctly, and very informative without beeing TOO much
2) I agree... and Nazguls will be balanced a lot that way
3) If SUl can code it we can do it. I like the ideas...

[Gfire]

Raining heavily here. Lots of thunder during the night.

Anyways, on topic. Yes, the Nazgul should be quite resistant. It's their mounts that are vulnerable. In the book Legolas shot down a Fellbeast with one arrow.

[Sûlherokhh]

Fear instead of cheering, easy coding, somewhat time consuming though.

Flying upward is difficult if not impossible. Units can be made to go offmap with WB-scripts, but that would involve adding lots of offmap up-in-the-sky rally objects to every map (or maybe just to the mordor fortress) and some serious scripting and testing. Cool idea though. Maybe next year.

A different ArmorSet for Nazgûl should be the easiest of the three.

[Hermoor]

If the nazguls should be able to fly higher so should all the other flying units. I don't think it sounds like something "that is needed" though. Also, I don't think I have seen one single scene where the nazguls dive down from above the clouds in the movie. They fly low all the time. So imo it's a waste of time...

[witchkingshour]

Just because losing Harad doesn't mean Mordor needs upgrading... Even with the Mumakil, Corasairs, and Rhun, I am sure they will be strong... Their heroes, orcs, Trolls, and Siege, I don;t know about you, but that still sounds pretty strong to me..

[Arveanor]

^^^^agreed^^^^ but I'm not so sure on the idea of this whole thread, though I had thought of an ability to let units fly higher up, another idea for this would be too give them higher defense against archers while up there, even if they can't attack from there.

Oh and as for movie support think first approach of minas tirith by the fellbeasts, they come from way up before they start hitting the trebs.

But yeah if it's all that work to code it's not that necessary.

[double 0 b]

If I remember correctly, in BFME1 EA had origionally planned on having a "sweep" ability for the fellbeast, but sadly ditched it (for what reason I cannot imagine ! )
Would it be possible for you to implemment this ? As it can be frustrating for my 9 mounted Nazgul to simply pluck enemies out of formations 1 at a time - they could be so much more useful !

[Prince of the Dark Forest]

If I remember correctly, in BFME1 EA had origionally planned on having a "sweep" ability for the fellbeast, but sadly ditched it (for what reason I cannot imagine ! )
Would it be possible for you to implemment this ? As it can be frustrating for my 9 mounted Nazgul to simply pluck enemies out of formations 1 at a time - they could be so much more useful !

WANT. I've always loved the sweeping strike that the fellbests use in the movies... If this could be included, I would be extremely happy! XD

[Nazgûl]

I'd like that too... Quite hard coded though!
I'd also like to change the grabbing of 1 "passenger" into several units and at least 2 horses/riders for each grab.
Probably not for this beta though... =/

Edited by Nazgûl, 05 November 2010 - 09:05 AM.

[Prince of the Dark Forest]

But in the long term, I think it would be a very good mod to make... It is quite iconic to the movies... XD

[Spartan184]

Actually they did implant it cause "Inside the Battle" videos they show a part where a nazgul does it I wonder why I they removed it.

[njm1983]

Had some wild thoughts about the 9 the last few days - mainly balancing issues with everything going level 10 for the heroes Im mildly concerned about fellbeasts swarming the skies.... I was thinking that the Nazgul shouldnt be able to ride a fellbeast as a mount toggle. Im thinking itd be cooler to have to build each fellbest for them, then we could have it so you could take your nazgul and click on the fell which would swoop down and "put the nazgul on it back". If possible with coding. Another thought I had would be if it were possible to have the Nazgul appear where its fellbeast died. So If he gets killed by archers his fellbeast dies but the Nazgul doesnt, giving the opportunity to use him on the ground or horseback until another fellbeast is ready or he dies in combat.

Thoughts?

[Nazgûl]

Not bad at alll. However...

- The first part is to hard coded! =/
- The second should work. I also agree that this would be more in line with "realism". Nazzies shouldnt die that easily, as fellbeasts do. I think this should be possible. *noted*

I also think that we perhaps could use a new structure to even gain acces to Fellbeasts (as a pre req for their mounts you have to "build" them" (summon them)) and even enable recruitment of Nazgûls to begin with maybe. Perhaps using a Morgul Tower, with that green FX when upgraded. I'm also having thoughts on having prereq for all fortress heores in all factions, to make them late game units. Maybe the fortress monument/etc =)

[KingElessar2384]

I agree with the whole "nazzies survive after fellbeast being slain," thing. But perhaps you could give the Nazgul more armor; as Tolkien states, "The Nine were untouchable by mortal men, except by enchanted weapons." ex: Eowyn was able to kill the WK after Merry stabbed him, because he was using a blade from the Westernesse and they were designed to kill the WK back in the day. Aragorn's sword Anduril was powerful enough also to slay a Nazgul or WK. Anyways, any thoughts?

Edited by KingElessar2384, 12 November 2010 - 01:11 PM.

[Lauri]

Make them basically unkillable, except by Merry, Eowyn-no-man, Aragorn, Gandalf, probably a couple of others? My teacher once told me "There are no bad ideas" but that's pretty close
How would Dwarves, Elves, Mordor, Isengard and Goblins fare against Mordor?

And no, Nazgul, it isn't hard-coded. You'll have the nazgul as a object on it's own, and the fellbeast an object of it's own. Then simply make the nazgul able to have a HordeContain ala transports, and make it only possible to Nazguls +Witch King, and when the fellbeast die, the nazgul lives on if you want.

I don't know how powers would continue to work though, or if you would simply make the nazguls powerless in the air, and make the fellbeast have the powers (that require a upgrade given by the nazgul to objects within x area close to himself, basically each nazgul to his own fellbeast, it's a LUA thing..)
That way, when the fellbeast is close enough to the nazgul (just the minimum so the Naz doesn't grant powers to nearby nazguls) it takes over the powers. Of course, this makes it possible to "cheat" by using the powers as the nazgul first, mount him, then use the powers again because it's another object that uses them..

So it isn't flawless... I'd rather suggest to have 5 nazguls on horse, and the rest on fellbeast, to keep them from going OP.

[Prince of the Dark Forest]

I don't want to lose the EPICNESS of having nine nazguls on fellbeasts basically destroying everything in their path. Whilst it may not be balanced for Mordor to be so overpowered, perhaps nazguls (especially when mounted on fellbeasts) should be very weak.

One arrow from legolas was all it took for a nazgul on a fellbeast to retreat. One arrow from Faramir did the same. A few well-placed arrows should be enough to take down a fellbeast in the game. Once the fellbeast is dead, the player can continue with the nazgul who will have a generic hero health.

This makes them more vulnerable when mounted, and also means that fellbeasts are not overused.

[njm1983]

The nazzies only have screech as an ability as far as i can remember, that and maybe morgul blade. Which in my opinion morgul blade should be available where the nazzie can actually use it "on the ground". besides that the rest of their abilities is just dread visage so nothing that really creates a problem with being able to use abilities twice. The witch king is a different story his abilities are different when on foot or mounted.

[Nazgûl]

And no, Nazgul, it isn't hard-coded. You'll have the nazgul as a object on it's own, and the fellbeast an object of it's own. Then simply make the nazgul able to have a HordeContain ala transports, and make it only possible to Nazguls +Witch King, and when the fellbeast die, the nazgul lives on if you want.

I wasn't talking about the fell die/nazz goes on, I was talking about the fell sweep down to iuck up nazgul into mounted state =)