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DC Sniper Executed 7 Years Later


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#41 OmegaBolt

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 09:38 PM

So EVERYONE is a psychologist (or whatever they call themselves)?

All I'm saying is if the rehabilitation was done well, had better staff, better "programme", then it'd work better. What youve basically said is "Right, the rehabilitation is absolutely perfect, all thats left to blame is those damn stubborn 'criminals'. They're just not listening!!". Clearly its better just to kill 'em off than to actually try harder.

Also why are you assuming all these 'criminals' are "hes"? :p

Edited by OmegaBolt, 13 November 2009 - 09:40 PM.

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#42 Phil

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 11:05 PM

And I fully agree with olli. To have a real opinion and understanding, you need to have been in this situation. Until you are, you're another bleeding heart douche who doesn't understand real human emotion.

Doesn't understand real human emotion? The whole freaking point was that emotion isn't the right foundation for justice. Reason is.

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#43 Mathijs

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 11:33 PM

Just one.


Okay.

http://forums.revora...&...st&p=756931

Perhaps not wrong, but left utterly defeated, brilliantly showing us you're really just a close-minded moron who likes to judge people because they don't live exactly the way you think is right.

And...

If you can read, I'm pointing out that you're basically saying everyone is to blame, except for the criminal himself. That's just not how it works, and a laughable excuse to defend his behaviour. HE choose to be a criminal, and ignore his attempt of rehabilitation. The criminal is to blame, noone else.


See, that's where you're wrong as well. People don't always choose to be a criminal. I know, I know, society is cold and hard and I'm just a bleeding heart delusional moron, but the facts are that people are influenced by their environment in becoming what they end up being. Or are you the kind of guy who thinks foreigners, for example, commit more crimes for the sole reason they're foreign and different? Not stopping to think they're in different social situations, which would partly explain their inclinement to criminal behaviour? I don't believe children are born as criminals. But from what I gather, you seem to think the world is divided in black and white, some people are good, some people are bad, and that's the way it is. Sorry, but it's clear that you have no idea what the fuck you're on about. You lack experience and social knowledge.

Sorry, but that's not how it works. Theoretically, perhaps, but practically... Not so much. I know a guy who has worked in a prison. His job was to help criminals to rehabilitate. After several years, he couldn't stand it any longer, because time and time again the same old faces kept popping back in, just shortly after they were 'rehabilitated' and released back into society. Really, it was their way of living, they didn't know any else.


I know a guy who knows a guy who says every single prisoner rehabilitates into a model citizen. True story. I just can't prove it, but you have to believe me because I have no idea why. Also, you could wonder how it came to be they didn't know anything else.

Edited by Matias, 13 November 2009 - 11:45 PM.


#44 Beowulf

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 12:51 AM

Doesn't understand real human emotion? The whole freaking point was that emotion isn't the right foundation for justice. Reason is.

Your position does not understand human emotion. THAT is the problem. Reason determines whether or not someone is even put to death in the first place.

The way I see it, if the murderer, or puppetmaster, devalues human life to the extent that he, or she, will murder innocent people for no reason, why do we spare his, or her, life? Answer that truthfully. WHAT IS SO FUCKING SPECIAL ABOUT A CRIMINAL THAT HE SHOULD LIVE EVEN AFTER RUINING FAMILIES AND MURDERING INNOCENT PEOPLE? No answer you have will be right, not with your position and it never will be. Period. Next. Fucking. Case.

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#45 OmegaBolt

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 01:15 AM

Uhh, he should live because living, especially stuck in the same room day in day out, is more painful than death.

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#46 some_weirdGuy

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 01:17 AM

going back to something vort said on page one:

And if there is an afterlife, if there is a further dimension wherein the actions of your life are weighed and measured, do you think an executioner will fare any better than his charges? How about the judge who condemns them?


Maybe he'll get shanked, or maybe he'll die aged 90 in a little locked box, having spent his whole life behind bars and not having seen the moon since the day he was arrested. Curtailing a man's freedom to that degree is worse than death. It gets dragged out over as many years as he can survive, instead of setting him free in half an hour.


So if a judge or executioner who killed a criminal is viewed as just as bad as the criminal they condemned, would not doing the equivalent of taking their life away be just as bad?

You even said "curtailing a man's freedom to that degree is worse than death", so therefore wouldn't that mean that the judge who condemned them to this 'fate worse than death' would be received just as harshly, in fact more harshly, than if he had simply ordered his execution?

They both end up with the same outcome, one is just slower, arguably you could say one involves bring death, while the other involves torturing him till death comes on its own. When you look at it that way is that not more inhumane then simply sending them to a quick death?

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#47 Vortigern

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 11:46 AM

Heh, nice word-twisting there, SWG. Yes, maybe it would be more humane (and almost certainly cheaper) to execute a murderer rather than keep them locked up for years, but that's irrelevant. Murder is the crime. The criminal has forced society to punish him for his actions, but there is nothing forcing society to sink to his level, especially when an arguably worse punishment can be given while retaining the moral high ground.

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#48 Allathar

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 12:12 PM

See, that's where you're wrong as well. People don't always choose to be a criminal. I know, I know, society is cold and hard and I'm just a bleeding heart delusional moron, but the facts are that people are influenced by their environment in becoming what they end up being. Or are you the kind of guy who thinks foreigners, for example, commit more crimes for the sole reason they're foreign and different? Not stopping to think they're in different social situations, which would partly explain their inclinement to criminal behaviour? I don't believe children are born as criminals. But from what I gather, you seem to think the world is divided in black and white, some people are good, some people are bad, and that's the way it is. Sorry, but it's clear that you have no idea what the fuck you're on about. You lack experience and social knowledge.


While I admit that society has an influence, EVERYONE has at least some sort of choice. Everyone. Fuck, I understand exactly your reasoning, but that's just not a solution to the problem. Does it make it okay for foreigners to commit a crime, because they were raised with different social codes? No. If they come here, they better adapt to us instead of we to them. A crazed nutjob may have shot twelve innocent people because of his bad youth or because 'society was against him', but that's NOT an excuse to justify his behaviour. If he was really having some deep mental issues, he might as wel have looked for a psychiatrist instead of venting his frustration on innocent people. Nowadays criminals tend to blame their behaviour on, indeed 'bad youth' or 'bad influence'. Well, that may have been the case, but they also had a choice, they choose criminal behaviour, now deal with the fucking concequences. Zero tolerance. And it's not my lack of social knowledge that clarifies my reasoning, rather the opposite, because I know that when criminals get your 'soft approach', they'll laugh their asses off at the naivety of the judges. What they do need is a good old punishment that shows them exactly what they've done. It's like with little children, they won't do bad stuff because otherwise 'mommy will get angry at me', instead of not doing it because they're good kids.

By the way, this reminds me of a Turkish serial rapist or whatever the fuck he was, who blamed his behaviour on the society and all that bullshit. He claimed to have rehabilitated and was allowed a while out of prison to go see his wife and newborn son. Next thing you know he fled the country and he's probably back dealing drugs in Turkey right now.
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