Elven Siege
#1
Posted 15 December 2009 - 08:37 AM
I read on one of these topics that people wanted the ballista on the elven siege boat to be used on the Fortress expansions and wall sections as the siege upgrade opposed to the Ents. Then I remembered the new Wain Riders and how they have that chariot in the back. Perhaps for Elves a similar thing but with a bigger wagon for a elf manning a ballista. This would be built from the stables, I always thought elves should have another horse unit anyways. They would have about 5 units in the battalion and have pretty good range but less damage since the weapon itself is weaker.
The second one would be I guess a bit of a rip from the old RA mod. Basically a group of Elven singers/healers who can attack buildings. Their siege would either come as their only method of attack or an ability. The siege attack will be kind of magical. They will either do some hand movements/singing and then a giant boulder will come out of the ground and be launched at the building or like some kind of sideways pillars will jut out from the ground close to the building and smash it or the building will just kind of shake as if there is an earthquake under it. I mostly get this idea from Galadriel's description of throwing down the walls of Dol Guldur. Certainly while she is supposed to be incredibly powerful the destruction these singer/healers would do is not of that caliber.
The third one would be as described above Galadriel herself. I just think its hilarious with the karate chop action Galadriel we currently have . Its just not Galadriel to see her doing something like that. She is basically their heavy siege imo with I guess Elrond(spells) and Glorfindel(being a living tank). Her attack would either be an ability or a natural attack. The natural attack would be similar to how other siege function but faster and less damage but no visible projectile she waves her hands when you target something and a few seconds later it takes damage. The ability would either be cast on area or specific target and do a constant hp drain on the building for a duration of time while the building kind of shakes similar to the thing mentioned in above paragraph. To further weaken Elven Siege I think Galadriel herself should be made into a summon. That seems similar to lore imo is that she only comes out in certain situations since she herself is not a warrior. Perhaps a spell book power that can only be cast in an area around Celeborn. To compensate for the shorter time she spends on field she will have really strong auras and abilities. Perhaps even an aura that gives bonus damage against buildings to all units.
#3
Posted 15 December 2009 - 09:03 PM
#4
Posted 15 December 2009 - 09:09 PM
You could basically do it like in TEA, but use an elite single unit along with the heroes. I think this would work better in SEE.
#5
Posted 15 December 2009 - 09:18 PM
The strongest siege unit for Elves would be those singer/healers. Like regular siege though they would be pretty slow and vulnerable, but have the same weaknesses as light armored units meaning basically most types of attack can easily take them down. This is opposed to regular siege which is somewhat resistant to arrow fire. Also this makes them easier to take out with the enemies own ranged siege since they lack enough hp. Meaning Elves would have to be somewhat aggressive about taking them out or lose their main siege.
That ballista cavalry thing would be while really mobile just a bit better than your current fire arrow archers at damaging buildings especially since they have the range advantage which archers should not.
#6
Posted 15 December 2009 - 09:25 PM
I think spells are the best way forward. A healer and a spellcaster (with a powers set similar to a hero, but all ranged powers with structural damage). I think I saw something like this in another mod. They had 3 spellcasters, one was specialized in fire, one in water and the other was something else...
#7
Posted 15 December 2009 - 09:50 PM
Magic like the kind Elrond used to surge the river is something only very few individuals could do across all races save Ainur. Most other magics are quite subtle not so fierce and obvious. Only some learned Elf Lords/Ladies such as Galadriel and Elrond could do these things even amongst Elves. Even other really famous Elves mostly rulers are not even hinted at doing things of that nature even though they are said to be greater. That's why I don't like something so overtly magical being done by regular units.
#8
Posted 15 December 2009 - 11:02 PM
It's true that only some elves were able to do that. But in the film, Arwen caused the flood, and she isn't put amongst the strongest Elves, especially in BFME. I think it would be decent to have single unit spellcasters like in RJ. Being a single unit would make them more realistic and less overpowered. Then they can cause floods or whatever else to tear down buildings.
Besides this, some heroes could also help out as siege.
#9
Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:06 AM
#10
Posted 16 December 2009 - 03:39 PM
#11
Posted 16 December 2009 - 04:55 PM
#12
Posted 21 December 2009 - 05:51 PM
They will have two abilities that affect the attacks of units around them. One will either give a small amount of siege damage to the units or a damage multiplier vs buildings to those units(note not the same as siege damage). The second ability will imbue weapons giving them flame damage since as someone said Elves don't have fire arrows.
Furthermore I know both Sulherokkh and Nazgul have been saying about how they wanted to change the fire arrow system to be more realistic. All factions should have a brazier carrying unit who has the ability to buff units around them for a short period of time with fire arrows or they permanently have this ability but that's a bit overpowered. It seems more realistic since from them is where the units would get the actual fire for their arrows. Also to account for the time to light arrows on fire the ability would slow down the attack speed of units affected except the Elven version(since there's wouldn't be a brazier carrier). Now all archers could have a different arrow upgrade that gives them bonus damage.
#13
Posted 23 December 2009 - 01:06 AM
Heating up weapons makes some sense, except, erm, they will not be bale to hold them anymore.
In age of empires 2 there is an upgrade called sappers which makes villagers have a +15 damage bonus against structures. (To put this in perspective, their regular attack does 3 damage.)
#14
Posted 23 December 2009 - 05:34 PM
The difference was with Aragorn the whole blade was heated up for the arrows only the tip would get warm. If they can heat up weapons its not too much of a stretch that they can do so to still allow the weapons to be wielded. I guess its more similar to the Witch King lighting his sword on fire albeit not as powerful or dramatic.
Yeah that example from AoE 2 is kind of what I mean ;an ability that momentarily buffs units(probably only archers) with either small amount of siege damage or gives a multiplier against buildings. To make it an aura or upgrade I think would make it too powerful as many think Elves are strong enough as is they should have some weakness and siege seems to be it. I also don't recall other than Dol Guldur the Elves making a major siege success by themselves meaning no help from other races or Ainur.
#15
Posted 23 December 2009 - 06:19 PM
I was picturing swords, but with spears and arrows it would be better.
Also having a few heroes with very powerful abilities would be able to assist in siege, though probably not able to take a whole fortress down alone (you'd at least need to protect them with your archers or something.)
Also, in age of mythology, there was a god power (spellbook power,) which lit target unit's weapons on fire, increasing damage.
#16
Posted 24 December 2009 - 12:39 AM
When it comes to heroes the main siege would be Galadriel. Just the vibe I get from the books is that she seems pretty strong in the siege department. So she would be the strongest siege for them. However, as Ring o' Fate brought up Elves are pretty strong all around so to make them kind of balanced they'll have somewhat weak siege. To make up for Galadriel's strength I still believe that she should be relegated to a summon(with timer) from either spell book, building, or Celeborn's ability. It just seems she didn't come out to fight except in certain situations. Basically summoning Galadriel would be when they are doing a traditional siege( where units protect the powerful ranged siege). Any more traditional siege is too much since Elves powerful archers just make that type of siege too effective.
Since she would be a summon and their primary siege(chariot ballistae) would be comparatively weak to other factions I thought of those singer/healers. They would have the buffing powers which would allow the Elves some options and that would give them a unique siege. However, since this would only mean that there regular units are just more effective against buildings they would need to adopt a more aggressive siege style.
Yeah that whole fire damage buff I got from Age of Mythology. I haven't had a chance to play Age of Kings otherwise I probably would "steal" ideas from there too. People seem to want some "dragon" theme for Rhun so I thought the flaming weapons spell book power would belong to them.
#17
Posted 30 December 2009 - 06:12 PM
And yeah, the Elves are hypocrites.
#18
Posted 31 December 2009 - 01:15 PM
Oh how i hate how the elves are exploited, lol that brings back bad memories
#19
Posted 12 January 2010 - 01:04 AM
I actually like the idea of chariot ballistae better than this, but if we're holding onto ents for some reason, I think this could work pretty well.
#20
Posted 12 January 2010 - 10:58 PM
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