6 replies to this topic

[Emperor of the East]

*Split into new topic from siege topic* /Naz

Well, the Persians also made decisions of state while drunk, and didn't hesitate much at genocide, so they couldn't have been that nice. And even if you do care more about effectiveness than being evil, with all the invasions you have going on it seems ineffective not to take slaves.

That was due to the Islamic Arab conquerers changing their mentalities by force. The Zoroastrian Persians, however, had the mentality of free labor driven by respect rather then fear.

I don't blame the Persians for the forced change of their personality by a Middle-Eastern invasion of Asia.

Speaking of Asia, the Persians are not the only people Tolkien was inspired by for Rhun, he also puts a bit of Chinese, Mongolian, and Korean inventiveness into them, and also he treats northern Rhun as Russia and Central Asia. And there is talk in the LotR prequel (Silmarillion) about the Last Desert being as Far East as one can go, and there was lore about Were-worms living there. So I made a map called "Asia as Rhun" that you can look at to see where I'm getting my logic.



Which means, for the sake of staying on-topic, any siege engines that any Asian culture had, maybe the Easterlings instinctively had.

That is all.

Edited by Nazgûl, 03 November 2010 - 07:45 PM.

[{IRS}Athos]

I know that this is hard to swallow, but consider this.

What if Tolkien intended for the Easterlings to be a distinct society of their own, rather than a carbon-copy of civilizations that already existed?

[Emperor of the East]

I know that this is hard to swallow, but consider this.

What if Tolkien intended for the Easterlings to be a distinct society of their own, rather than a carbon-copy of civilizations that already existed?

Indeed he did want a purely fictional society for all of Middle-earth, but every good media maker blends originality with inspiration. I am just saying that it is clear that he blended various Asian societies with his own fictional elements for Rhun.

[Arthadan]

Speaking of Asia, the Persians are not the only people Tolkien was inspired by for Rhun, he also puts a bit of Chinese, Mongolian, and Korean inventiveness into them, and also he treats northern Rhun as Russia and Central Asia. And there is talk in the LotR prequel (Silmarillion) about the Last Desert being as Far East as one can go, and there was lore about Were-worms living there. So I made a map called "Asia as Rhun" that you can look at to see where I'm getting my logic.
Which means, for the sake of staying on-topic, any siege engines that any Asian culture had, maybe the Easterlings instinctively had.

Where can I find the exact quotes which state that Tolkien did inspired by for Rhûn? As far as I know he never wrote about that (at least not in terms of "Chinese, Mongolian, Korean" and "he treats Rhun as central Russia").

By the way, he did sketched a map of the whole Middle-earth and Rhûn is not in the far east (not even central east). Rhün means East, and it's nothing more than the name given by Gondorians and nort-western Elves to the land which happens to be to the east.

[{IRS}Athos]

I know that this is hard to swallow, but consider this.

What if Tolkien intended for the Easterlings to be a distinct society of their own, rather than a carbon-copy of civilizations that already existed?

Indeed he did want a purely fictional society for all of Middle-earth, but every good media maker blends originality with inspiration. I am just saying that it is clear that he blended various Asian societies with his own fictional elements for Rhun.

Obvious from the movies, or the books? Find me one good quote that makes it absolutely, completely crystal clear that Rhun=Asia and I'll believe you. Until then, try to keep an open mind.*

*Especially hilarious when you consider that I'm the one who isn't open minded! Hypocrisy is fun!

[Kwen]

I always envisioned Rhun to resemble the Persian Empire.

[Emperor of the East]

Speaking of Asia, the Persians are not the only people Tolkien was inspired by for Rhun, he also puts a bit of Chinese, Mongolian, and Korean inventiveness into them, and also he treats northern Rhun as Russia and Central Asia. And there is talk in the LotR prequel (Silmarillion) about the Last Desert being as Far East as one can go, and there was lore about Were-worms living there. So I made a map called "Asia as Rhun" that you can look at to see where I'm getting my logic.
Which means, for the sake of staying on-topic, any siege engines that any Asian culture had, maybe the Easterlings instinctively had.

Where can I find the exact quotes which state that Tolkien did inspired by for Rhûn? As far as I know he never wrote about that (at least not in terms of "Chinese, Mongolian, Korean" and "he treats Rhun as central Russia").

By the way, he did sketched a map of the whole Middle-earth and Rhûn is not in the far east (not even central east). Rhün means East, and it's nothing more than the name given by Gondorians and nort-western Elves to the land which happens to be to the east.

Tolkien states in Fellowship of the Ring that the Easterlings had "Bowmen upon horses, chariots of chieftains and laden wains"

People with a knowledge of Asian warfare and tactics know that horse-archers have been used by Mongols, Persians, Turks (Persia's northern neighbors), Russian Scythians, Indian Rajputs,; that Chariots have been used by Persians, Chinese, Armenians, and Indians. And "cart weapons", such as the laden wain, have been used by Chinese and Koreans.

Another thing, Tolkien's Middle-earth is the eastern-hemispheric landmass of what Tolkien called, "our world in a fictional time. And, yes, you are right, he does write largely through Western eyes, and Europe was unable to tell the Asian cultures apart until about the colonial times, which could be why Tolkien's alternate Asia is simply called, "East".

Finally, you never hear of any Europeans other than the Romans, Celts, and Macedonians who were, "war-hardened and asked for no quarter".

~E~