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Student Riots in London over future fee increase


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#21 olli

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 12:37 PM

Psych does seem fairly irrelevant for wanting to get into avionics, if you had no interest in studying the skills and techniques of your chosen field, are you sure you chose the right one? Having a degree may set a baseline, but if that line is "indecisive arts student" that's not necessarily a good thing. If you had two candidates for an avionics position, one of them has a degree in aeronautical engineering and the others a psych student, which would you hire? I'm glad you think it was money well spent as you're the one who has to pay it back, but I do hope it wasn't a complete waste.



Aviation, not avionics. I don't want to tinker with the things, I want to fly them. I should have said Pilot. And for any type of aircrew, Military or civil, you don't actually need a degree. The military asses you on a number of criteria. Having a degree just starts you out on a higher rank and gives you a slight pay boost. Even if someone did Aero Eng, it doesn't make them highly employable by the military. An arts student who does Spanish, or Sociology, or media studies could actually be far better at the job, if he meets the criteria for Aircrew.

In civil street, you pay for it yourself or you get a scholarship. I'm hopefully doing the latter. But I have money saved away for a rainy day... I'm lucky doing what I do now. I don't pay a penny for the flying instruction I give, but I don't get paid. But I get a shit load of hours and the freedom of the air!

A part of me is still heavily considering the police...Blues and twos and all that...I would love a job in the police but its the shift work that would get me and I want my weekends to carry on doing the volunteer instructing that I'm doing now.

Do you know who the biggest employer of graduates are? The military. It's by far the best graduate job you can get.
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#22 duke_Qa

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 01:23 PM

My American relatives have a tendency to become jet-pilots. Start off in the US military for the education and then 5-10 years on contract bombing stuff. Then they get into the private business flying passenger-flights. Seems like a good deal to me, since you never really get into any depth and you get a top-notch air-certificate and portfolio. Might demand some grades and stuff to begin with though.

Subsidy from the state: about 750 Euro/month (for 6 years); allowed other income without reduction in subsidy: 1150 Euro/month.
The subsidy is only half the amount, if you live at your parents home.
In addition other smaller subsidies, like for long pendling distances between home and university.


Over a year you can get about £8000 in loans, £3600 which you get for free/subsidized IF you succeed at all exams for that year. I don't know the specifics, but you don't really need to take the loan if you want to. But most people loan as much as possible because it is the best sort of loan you can get, ever(2-3 years of pauses, lowest interest, if you die or haven't paid it down within 30 years it gets written off.). I'm spending some of my loan on stock these days, i could probably pay back 2/3rds of my loan if i drained all my books.

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#23 Jeeves

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 02:24 PM

Not sure of the set amount you can get on loan here, but I do know people who can't finish their intended degrees off it. The bright side is there's no interest. The downside is it never expires - I am really amazed to hear yours does. The punchline is it comes out of tax, so after taking a bigger slice of your paycheck, a graduate earns considerably less than someone without a degree.

Go to uni - you'll loose 3-4 years of potential income, and get paid less when you're done.

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#24 ambershee

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 05:02 AM

In the UK (post 2005), your maximum loan consists of around £6,500 per year. £3,250 of this pays your tuition fees automatically, and the rest is to assist with your living costs. My rent every year is £5,400, so as you can imagine that additional £3,250 doesn't go very far.

I don't have to pay it back until I am earning at least £16,000 per year - after which it is automatically deducted from my income as a tax (usually in the order of £40 per week). £16,000 is less than I'd earn working at Aldi - let's put that in perspective. I'd also lose over £2000 every year, so I'd have less money than those working on minimum wage by the end of it.


The new system wants you to pay £9000 for tuition instead of £3,250 - you get a loan to cover that £9000, plus around £3000 to cover living expenses. In the new system, the bonus is that you don't have to pay it back until you are earning over £21,000 - the median income in the UK. The downside is that it also accumulates interest whilst you are not paying it back. 4 years of university with the student loan (not counting any other loans you might have had to take out to pay for it) comes to about £45,000 - even as little as 3% interest per year would come out to over £1000.

#25 Ash

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 02:05 PM

I wonder if the new loans ever get written off the way ours do?

£40 per week!? That's massive. How much exactly do you earn, ambershee? I pay £55 every 4 weeks, and I earn 23k...ok, my 9%-off-the-top pension comes off pre-tax so I suppose that affects it.

#26 ambershee

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 09:26 AM

I deliberately keep my reported income under £16,000 by freelancing short contracts and studying part time, which gives me a small grant to keep me going.

Edit: For the record, I have a mixed student loan from having been a student in both the pre-2005 system and post-2005 system, so I pay both back.

Edited by ambershee, 14 November 2010 - 09:27 AM.


#27 Allathar

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 12:42 PM

In related news, Greece gets 9 billion more support to solve the crisis there :)
It has been reported that some victims of rape, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not WAKE UP. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren't being raped. The only way that they realized they needed to WAKE UP was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to WAKE UP. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and PLEASE WAKE UP

#28 Tom

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 08:19 PM

More protests today and more violence! It was planned to go wreck the LibDem building but I think the police were on the ball a little bit more in those areas. Probably a good thing. I think I'd only agree with it if Labour got their share as well ;)

Anyway, jokes aside. I hope this will become a big thing. I think that it's a good thing that people are finally starting to take action. It's not the entirely the Tories fault, no. It's the fault of all the main parties in Westminster who have bailed out the criminal banks, spent trillions of pounds on pointless wars for economic imperialism and funded an extravagant foreign policy for decades to ensure western dominance of the world, as well as spending billions of pounds on trying to develop an unwanted borderline totalitarian state in Europe. These things all contribute to our economic problems - although they try to convince us otherwise because they thing we are ignorant and stupid!

These riots are a good thing. I'm sorry for the people who get hurt because no one has the right in reality to injury or try to kill someone else - but that's just human nature. One group try to shit on another group - violence ensures because humans hate tyranny. And rightly so! These riots shows an end to consensus in the UK. The politicians, media and police are doing all they can to try quash dissent in the UK and tell people what to think. I'm so glad people flooded the Telegraphs email accounts with spam when they ran the "shop a student rioter" scheme on their website two weeks ago, in an attempt to bring it to a halt. It's disgusting how the media always takes side of the government/police unless they feel they can get a personal gain from it for their own individual organisations.

Of course when these things happen there are people who get carried away e.g. the guy who threw a fire extinguisher off the Tory Headquarters roof landing a few feet for police, but it is still important people are getting active.

I just hope that this movement doesn't become an entirely left-wing dominated. There are more problems that just education cuts. It would be great if people can realise the politically "left-right" paradigm is just a fraud and move away from it and think for themselves.

As Bill Hicks said: "You're right! Not those fuckers who want to tell you how to think! You're fucking right!"
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In this context, David Cameron can fuck off telling people that violence is bad - he voted for the war in Iraq. More ironic a man who voted for mass murder can tell people what to think and feel about this action. Maybe he should take a look in the mirror. Two riots and a few protests compare nothing to the economic and human damage his vote caused.

#29 duke_Qa

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:36 PM

I don't understand the logic of making the students pay for the idiocy of the economists/fat cats and political bosses that were in charge for this mess. It is like "hurr, people are catching on...Better make them moar stupid! herpaderp!". It also has nothing to do with left-wing right wing beyond that left-wing have usually been more about fairness in economic distribution.

Right now it seems that the conservative old folks and upper class twits are all for economic distribution... When the numbers are blood-red. Hypocrisy in a can. IF you want money in the good times you better pay the bill in the bad times!

Good hearing about the student situation from someone who is in it, keep that up ;)

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#30 Vortigern

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 11:08 PM

There were riots in London again today, I think, but there were several peaceful protests all across the country, including Bristol, York and Sheffield that I know of for sure. I was down there outside Nick Clegg's office with a few hundred other students, and those of us in lectures today staged a walkout, which a lot of the lecturers joined in with. And I know that some of my old friends who are still at school back home got a petition together and took it to the local MP's office and had their own little walkout. Also, the National Teachers' Union declared an amnesty for all students or teachers who wanted to join in with the action. This really has the whole nation up in arms.
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#31 duke_Qa

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 09:37 AM

Lets just hope that the government finds some other spot to take money from. Anyone with a brain would see that cutting in education is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. How the hell do you expect a nation to flourish without education?

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#32 Allathar

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 01:14 PM

Lets just hope that the government finds some other spot to take money from.

*cough*Immigrants*cough*Third-world aid*cough*. Stop with that bullshist and you don't have to take money from education. But no, the leftards refuse to listen to that.
It has been reported that some victims of rape, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not WAKE UP. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren't being raped. The only way that they realized they needed to WAKE UP was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to WAKE UP. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and PLEASE WAKE UP

#33 Mathijs

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 02:19 PM

*cough*WAR*cough*

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#34 Allathar

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 05:42 PM

Actually, wars can sometimes be beneficial to ones economy. It helped solve the Great Depression, you know.
It has been reported that some victims of rape, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not WAKE UP. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren't being raped. The only way that they realized they needed to WAKE UP was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to WAKE UP. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and PLEASE WAKE UP

#35 Mathijs

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 06:10 PM

Ah, and getting people through college isn't?

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#36 Tom

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 07:02 PM

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

"The Love Police" aka Charlie Veitch are always on the front line somewhere. It's great to watch the action through them.

I'm impressed you were there Vortigern. Unfortunately I'm too much of a pussy to walk out of my school placement at the moment and head to London. Too concerned it might fuck up my placement and my form of income for the future will be cut. I guess that's how they control society fear and the monetary system.

Cuts they need to make: War, Politicians bonuses, Excessive Policing and Surveillance, non-immigrants, the EU, bailing out failing banks/companies. All of these undermine capitalism and they all undermine prosperity and liberty of all people in a nation. Ironically I sit in the middle - I consider myself Libertarian but I'll happily pay tax for education and heathcare. Not as Libertarian as others I guess, but I think there is a limit to the stupidity of how far you can cut back on the state without fucking up the poor and the underclass. They are all humans too.

Actually, wars can sometimes be beneficial to ones economy. It helped solve the Great Depression, you know.

That may be the case, but war is still evil and should be opposed as much as possible. If we are going to use the logic of getting personal prosperity at the expense of some nation of little brown people then there is something seriously fucked up with our thinking.

#37 Allathar

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 08:43 PM

Cuts they need to make: War, Politicians bonuses, Excessive Policing and Surveillance,

Agreed.

non-immigrants, the EU,

I suppose you mean dumb immigrants who refuse to integrate? I don't see how they can cut on non-immigrants even more. Agreed with the EU, it's a bureaucratic nightmare that takes away the sovereignty of nations and is full of multi-culti idiots who think a large government can solve everything. Well, guess what, often a large government gets only in the way of solving things.


bailing out failing banks/companies

That depends, I guess. If they allowed to let some of the larger banks fall, then everything would be fucked - people would lose faith in the monetary and economic system even more, leading to another Great Depression. They should let investment banks fall, though. As for companies - again, that depends. Some of the larger corporations, although making big losses, are responsible for a large amount of economic activity and, above all, create jobs.

All of these undermine capitalism and they all undermine prosperity and liberty of all people in a nation. Ironically I sit in the middle - I consider myself Libertarian but I'll happily pay tax for education and heathcare. Not as Libertarian as others I guess, but I think there is a limit to the stupidity of how far you can cut back on the state without fucking up the poor and the underclass. They are all humans too.

Pretty much agreed, yeah. I'm for a small but powerful government - let the economy take care of itself, but keep a watchful eye on it to prevent too large inflation. Leave people alone as long as they don't violate the law. Healthcare and education should be 100% state-run (though not Obama-wise).

If we are going to use the logic of getting personal prosperity at the expense of some nation of little brown people then there is something seriously fucked up with our thinking.

Haha, why do you think we're currently in Iraq and Afghanistan? Certainly not to take care for those poor people ;)

Anyway, according to a recent calculation done here in the Netherlands, the whole immigration multi-culti bullshit costs the society 7,2 billion a year. Netto. The Netherlands is also relatively the greatest payer to the EU. Billions have been spent on trying to prevent Greece from going bankrupt. And at the same time the government raises the retirement age to 67 here, so the Greeks can retire happily at 50 with my tax money ;)
It has been reported that some victims of rape, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not WAKE UP. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren't being raped. The only way that they realized they needed to WAKE UP was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to WAKE UP. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and PLEASE WAKE UP

#38 Tom

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 10:21 PM

What I meant by non-immigrants is those who don't integrate yeah. Or those who come here to abuse our benefits system.

I don't agree with education and healthcare being 100% state run. It should be definitely state run to an extent, but banning private schools and private healthcare providers is a no no. Those options still need to be open for people who want to use them. If they are willing to pay who am I to say no to that?

#39 Ash

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 12:06 AM

More protests today and more violence! It was planned to go wreck the LibDem building but I think the police were on the ball a little bit more in those areas. Probably a good thing. I think I'd only agree with it if Labour got their share as well :crazed:

Hate to say it given that I'm supposed to actually preserve the Queen's Peace, but I tend to agree. I'm glad I'm not part of the public order teams - I'd have trouble not wanting to cross the picket.

I tend to agree with most of your other sentiments, Tom.

These riots are a good thing. I'm sorry for the people who get hurt because no one has the right in reality to injury or try to kill someone else - but that's just human nature. One group try to shit on another group - violence ensures because humans hate tyranny. And rightly so! These riots shows an end to consensus in the UK. The politicians, media and police are doing all they can to try quash dissent in the UK and tell people what to think.

No, nobody has the right to hurt others or cause wanton destruction but unfortunately the government doesn't listen to peaceful protest. Ever. The last protest that made a difference was the 1984 poll tax riots. And that's because they basically turned parts of greater London into a warzone.

I'm so glad people flooded the Telegraphs email accounts with spam when they ran the "shop a student rioter" scheme on their website two weeks ago, in an attempt to bring it to a halt.

Rofl, our gaffers are forever telling us to shop student rioters.

It's disgusting how the media always takes side of the government/police unless they feel they can get a personal gain from it for their own individual organisations.

Are you joking? The media never take the side of the police. Not ever. There is one group of people that the media love to hate more than us, and that's illegal mmigrants. Maybe gypsies too but even they are generally only on a par with us. Even those who live on benefits and have done for generations don't get the general hate that cops do. The photos might show the odd party van being trashed, but the text of the article will talk about how the nasty bobbies fought with those poor downtrodden scrotey rioters who were wreaking havoc.

There were riots in London again today, I think, but there were several peaceful protests all across the country, including Bristol, York and Sheffield that I know of for sure. I was down there outside Nick Clegg's office with a few hundred other students, and those of us in lectures today staged a walkout, which a lot of the lecturers joined in with. And I know that some of my old friends who are still at school back home got a petition together and took it to the local MP's office and had their own little walkout. Also, the National Teachers' Union declared an amnesty for all students or teachers who wanted to join in with the action. This really has the whole nation up in arms.

Amnesty? As if the NTU could really do anything to stop students from walking out. o_0 They might be able to clobber the teachers but the students could do what they bloody liked! ;)

I'm impressed you were there Vortigern. Unfortunately I'm too much of a pussy to walk out of my school placement at the moment and head to London. Too concerned it might fuck up my placement and my form of income for the future will be cut. I guess that's how they control society fear and the monetary system.

He never said he went to London - just that he walked out of class. I would've too - day off! Fucking get in! ;)

Cuts they need to make: War, Politicians bonuses, Excessive Policing and Surveillance, non-immigrants, the EU, bailing out failing banks/companies.

I agree with all except excessive policing. 144,000 bobbies is hardly excessive for a population of 63 million. Does one bobby for every 437 people seem excessive to you? If anything there should be more money spent on policing, but not necessarily solely to get more officers. Spend the money on getting rid of the paperwork and bureaucracy (saves money in the long term) and untie the bobbies' hands to allow them to do their bloody jobs. Get rid of the CPS so we can actually prosecute some of these bastards to make life better for the rest of the population. Make the judiciary actually dish out punishments, and make the punishments punishing enough.


Anyway, according to a recent calculation done here in the Netherlands, the whole immigration multi-culti bullshit costs the society 7,2 billion a year. Netto. The Netherlands is also relatively the greatest payer to the EU. Billions have been spent on trying to prevent Greece from going bankrupt. And at the same time the government raises the retirement age to 67 here, so the Greeks can retire happily at 50 with my tax money :crazed:

Western Europe really must be the only place where the elected representatives of that nation's people care about and look after the interests of everyone but the people of the nation that elected them.

#40 ambershee

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 10:08 AM

What I love the most is how they're still insisting the new fee hike is "fair", when on the day of the first riots the PM is in China explaining that the reason for the hike is so that we can subsidise to cost of foreign students, especially the Chinese.

So the proposal is for saddling future students with a lifetime of debt and cutting back on the quality of their education, so that foreign students can study in the UK cheaper, then piss off back home and pay into their economy, whilst the UK gets absolutely no benefit from it except a generally lower level of education. Genius!

As for the supposed £7 billion all these cuts are supposed to save? Guess who's government has just prepared a £7 billion bail-out package for bankrupt Ireland?

Thankfully, the Irish refused to take it - at least there's ONE government out there looking out for the interests of the British people.

Edited by ambershee, 26 November 2010 - 10:12 AM.





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