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Tea Party wants to rewrite history about slavery and minorities


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#21 Vortigern

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 09:24 PM

No, I think I'm going to head south if I can't stay here. I'm applying to Homerton in Cambridge, which would be nice because a) it's Cambridge so I'd get to put MA Cantab after my name for the rest of my life and b) it's a specialist teacher training college, but I'm not too hopeful on that front. I'm thinking Oxford Brookes looks more likely at the moment.

You, sir, are a Yorkshire racist. You're just jealous because Barnsley's full of tykes, garbage and crime, if most of what I've heard about it is true. The only good thing to have come out of Barnsley is Saxon, and that happened more than thirty years ago. :D

Edit: Also Mick McCarthy, but he pretends to be Irish so I'm not sure he counts.
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#22 duke_Qa

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 10:34 PM

I wonder why so many relatively smart people would want to become teachers. I myself have that as a plan B when I become 40-50 or something, but I'd only do it if I got to make my own class of 3d or whatever-the-fuck-i-like and minimum age of 16 or something.

I think it has more to do with society and that we spend 15 years of our first 18 in mandatory school. Teacher is one of the few jobs you can understand. We need more "practical break" years during education imo. pay businesses for taking in punks for a year, give them practical work on something, 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year. Should get them back into gear afterwards, or some perspective and motivation for a practical job later in life.

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#23 Vortigern

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 11:58 PM

No, I want to be a teacher because I've done it before and I really enjoy it, and for some reason kids like me, so it works. Also this way I can make them share my worldview and listen to power metal. There aren't enough 7-11-year-olds listening to power metal.
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#24 Pasidon

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 12:07 AM

You wanna' be a teacher because kids like you? That's like Mel Gibson wanting to become a Nazi just because Jews hate him.

Neh... teaching = authority complex

So what does that say about us coppers, then?

God complex, in most cases.

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#25 Vortigern

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 12:18 AM

because I've done it before and I really enjoy it


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#26 Pasidon

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 12:28 AM

Oh, you don't know what you like if you think rambling on about Choo-Choo Trains, the alphabet and negative cannibalistic propaganda to kids who don't retain information is fun. Do something interesting like hunting criminals or selling pelts. And to keep this relevant, we should enslave children instead if putting them in 'educational institutions' so they can work for once in their lives so they actually know what accomplishments are. Kids don't need to know about past slavery... just present slavery options.

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#27 Mathijs

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 01:25 AM

Pasidon, shut the fuck up if you cannot contribute.

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#28 duke_Qa

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 08:45 AM

Whenever you come up with ideas you should put yourself into the receiving end of the idea and see if it is a good place to be. So when pasi can say with conviction that he wouldn't have minded being stuck as a child-slave, we can start taking that argument more serious and see if we can't do something about it :D

That's usually the main problem with right-wing politics though, they are harsh on others than themselves but once they get stuck on the receiving end there's no end to the bitching.

Although I believe more boarding schools would be in the best interest of our way of life/societies(working our asses off and having to worry about children seems to be counter intuitive for some). Right now children are being thrown around like unwanted loads, teachers not allowed to punish because the laws say they can't and the parents not willing to teach their kids some manners because they believe that's the teacher's job.

No, I want to be a teacher because I've done it before and I really enjoy it, and for some reason kids like me, so it works. Also this way I can make them share my worldview and listen to power metal. There aren't enough 7-11-year-olds listening to power metal.


It certainly seems attractive at times, but personally I've had just a few great teachers through my time and they all had practical work-experience from before becoming teachers. Many in my close family are teachers so I know the ups and downs of being a teacher. Also had talk with grade school teachers that are frustrated because they feel like kindergarten aids, not teachers. Education is too soft and cuddly up here, once you are 9 you should be starting to learn some discipline and thought-processes to help you develop in a constructive direction.

Power metal is good though, that and more secular world-views will probably do them good :p

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#29 Vortigern

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:03 PM

Pasidon, shut the fuck up if you cannot contribute.

Second.

It certainly seems attractive at times, but personally I've had just a few great teachers through my time and they all had practical work-experience from before becoming teachers. Many in my close family are teachers so I know the ups and downs of being a teacher. Also had talk with grade school teachers that are frustrated because they feel like kindergarten aids, not teachers. Education is too soft and cuddly up here, once you are 9 you should be starting to learn some discipline and thought-processes to help you develop in a constructive direction.

Same here. My mum's a teacher, my sister was for a little while before she switched to voluntary work, my granny was a lecturer before she retired and my aunt is a doctor who does some kind of educational thing for med students, or something, I'm not really sure what she does any more. And I had some fantastic teachers over the course of my childhood. The best one was my Year 4 teacher (that's 8-9 years old). At the parents' evening he told my folks "Yeah, your kid's smart, whatever. He needs to learn how to lose like a gentleman." The point of this is, the best teachers are the ones who don't just focus on the curriculum. If you get to know the kids you can help them and they can become better people because of you. I think it would be great to be able to look back on my life and know that I had made a positive difference, even just to one child.
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#30 mike_

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:52 PM

Agreed. I've had several great teachers over the course of my life, and many poor ones. If the poor ones can get by like they did, why can't I do it and be a great one?

#31 Ash

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:34 PM

I had two good teachers throughout my school life. I had three throughout the course of my non-mandatory education (1 at college, 2 at uni). As such, I hold a very low opinion of teaching quality in this country.

Not teacher quality - teaching. Unfortunately there are too many teachers who just don't care but I take them on an individual basis - you can't judge every teacher by the shittiest amongst them.

But what teachers actually teach, unfortunately, is a pile of shit. And the way they are taught to teach it is a pile of shit, too. Education caters for its below-average pupil. It does nothing to stimulate the above-average or even the average to stay the course. Exams get easier, teachers teach to the curriculum that tells them how to make the kids pass the tests and every set of exams is a gateway to the next set with no actual academic aptitude or ability conferred by being able to pass them. EVery qualification becomes more worthless as a greater percentage of the population have it. Which is why graduates these days are as guaranteed to NOT get a job as average Joe Non-Graduate, if not more so because someone who's worked for three years has a work ethic and doesn't have the student soap-dodging, work-dodging, beer-swilling stereotype on them quite so much.

#32 Vortigern

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:37 PM

Which is precisely why I'm looking at primary teaching. The national curriculum for primary school is a lot looser, it just has a few set topics that need to be taught, not modules that have specific exams in just a few months. And at primary level, exams are just SATs at Year 2 and Year 6, unless the school does something individually. It's a much better learning environment, to use a government phrase.
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#33 Ash

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 08:08 PM

Only it isn't. The Oxford Reading Tree is an insult to the average child of that age's intelligence, the math ability of the majority of primary-school leavers is abysmal (and their reading and writing isn't a lot better, in part because they just aren't taught properly or treated in a mature fashion that doesn't insult their intelligence) and God forbid anyone mention an actual games lesson. PE should be about running around and playing sports. As I look back to my primary years I can scarcely remember any sports or games being played. All I remember is pretend-to-be-a-tree type bullshit.

Kids want to do two things when with kids their own age: Run around and play. That's it. Those are the two things kids want to do. Let them do that for an hour a week. Let them do it more if they pay a-fucking-ttention in class and bar them from playing if they act up. Give them break detentions and make them sit at the sideline and watch in PE. No messing around. No pussy-footing which seems to be the primary transferable skill from teaching at any level these days. Teach them how to read and write (though parents *ought* to have been doing that from age 1-2), how to add up, subtract, times tables, and a bit of other stuff in the lesson areas, but by God let them play because that's the reason kids act out all the time.

And religion should be barred from any classroom or school environment. Unfortunately, it is enshrined in our law. Though I would refuse to make the kids pray or sing hymns. The latter two are things which, I can heartily assure you or any other adjudicator or body, no child ever wants to do.

#34 Vortigern

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 10:52 PM

Hey, I refused to learn to read until I went to school. Apparently I told my parents reading was something I'd learn when I was meant to be learning, and in my defence, I can now read pretty well.

But I agree with most of your points, which is why I would largely ignore the prescriptions. I figure if you teach the kids how to do way smarter stuff they'll walk the shitty Reading Tree tests and whatever. Also, PE lessons are for teaching real sports. That is undeniable. I'm thinking martial arts are fun.
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#35 Puppeteer

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 11:10 PM

I'd quite like to go into academia - publishing articles, essays and books, while lecturing. But I've got no idea. I don't know if I have the personal skills to do lecturing well and enjoy it. Heck, I'm only eighteen. I have no idea.

#36 Pasidon

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 06:37 AM

k cool story bro

Pasidon, shut the fuck up if you cannot contribute.

I like turtles. I'm not rambling, Stacy... Slavery has been taken far out of context. Looking back in the day, we see slavery as bad since it was forcing people to work for hardly a cent... not true. Now I'm on American slavery contexts. The Americans took 3rd world tribes and institutionalized them in good better conditions, but with poor treatment... in some cases, poor treatment, I should say. But the slaves were given good housing conditions and money, as they were too be given by law. Now that's not what a lot of schools teach, unless you specifically go into African American history... real class, by the way. Slavery is a blurb... it is taught on how the people at the time saw it because they were all about morals. The major decline in African American culture, even to this day, was caused by the premature end of slavery because they were put out of work. The North rushing slavery away is immoral, essentially.

Now slavery was called immoral just because we forced people to work against their will. That's an opinion of the old world masses, and that is what 95% of the schools around will teach. They're teaching kids that slavery is immoral, even when you have a good teacher that doesn't put morals in it. The basic blurb that is 'slavery' tells people The South was an evil and immoral for participating. It did in my school, and it has in too many others (unless you're a southern school). So what's going on with slavery being taught is that it's giving people opinions... not very good ones and essentially wrong ones. It puts a bad mark on 'the south' and a tear to people's eyes and a base-ball bat in their hands aimed at 'the south' when slavery is mentioned. So it should be re-written... written right so all the details would be given in any class and one that won't put an unnecessary black mark on the south. Tell kids that most slaves lived in better conditions than immigrants in New York (and got paid more, realistically). But the history about minorities is basically "they didn't work and everyone hated them" is all you need to know, so no comment on that re-write. But my main point about slavery being taught in American schools is that 95% of teachers teaching this subject are stupid are won't tell it right or won't tell it at all (southern school...). Changing the lesson plan to force this 95% to get it right is fantastic.

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#37 duke_Qa

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 11:37 AM

A well written but disturbing angle on things.

Americans took 3rd world tribes and institutionalized them...

I'd say grabbing cultural minorities that have been press-ganged by their more powerful countrymen onto American slave-ships is pretty immoral to begin with. They did not have a choice in the matter thus slavery. There were some American governmental ships that hunted down slave-ships before the civil war broke out, and whenever they caught one they had to release them in Liberia so that they wouldn't just get sold off again by their masters back "home".

in some cases, poor treatment

Yeah, I bet there were some that just got to work in brothels, which all in all seems quite luxurious... up to the point you remember that contraception was non-existent. I'd love to see some statistics(proper historical/old unbiased ones) on the different living conditions for African-American slaves, but I doubt they exist.

Slavery is a blurb... it is taught on how the people at the time saw it because they were all about morals.


As I said earlier, if you can accept being on the receiving end of X, then it is probably reasonable. Would you personally prefer to be a slave in the old-school African-American way? Is it going to be a way of life you could manage to live for the rest of your life?

The basic blurb that is 'slavery' tells people The South was an evil and immoral for participating.

What I learned was that the South had a lot of unsavory jobs like cotton farming which made it really hard to get cost-effective labour. If anything I guess the north was more racist than the south, even though the south treated the slaves somewhat brutally, they gave them jobs of sorts.

So it should be re-written... written right so all the details would be given in any class and one that won't put an unnecessary black mark on the south.

Never re-write anything, instead add those little gray areas that you rarely hear about. The greatest evil is ignorance. Those that say history should be re-written are the kind that subconsciously liked that part of it but have gotten the majority against them so they can't publicly like it anymore. I'd love to see you go onto facebook and "become a fan of slavery" and see how that works out for you.

No, history should be inflated with as many facets of truth as you possibly can. Don't like the history of the American civil war? Add and emphasize the bad acts of the north! they probably did something stupid to allow a war to happen in the first place.

Oh well, someone else probably have something to say as well.

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#38 Allathar

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 02:36 PM

*applauds Pasidon*

Seriously, well written :D
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#39 Soul

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 04:55 PM

I fully agree with Duke, to re-write history is silly and we should instead add stuff that for some reason was left out.

Edited by Soul, 22 January 2011 - 04:56 PM.

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#40 Ash

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 06:04 PM

Like what? The truth about JFK being shot? What happend at Roswell? The page of the Bible that was found in 1839 that read "To my darling Jane. All persons portrayed in this book are fictitious and any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental"?

Pretty big omissions, though I suppose they've been left out for a reason.




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