23 replies to this topic

[MattTheLegoman]

I have been inspired by SEE and its incredible mapper, and am creating a SEE-standard Minas Morgul. Built to a larger scale (walls are scale 2, main gate and tower are scale 3.) than the original EA version, this map is also being designed according to the scaled model from Weta Workshop (http://www.wetanz.co...s-model-making/ and the lighting effects are going to be extreme (My love in map design).

Main gate (I do hope you can see the image.):

Can you see the gate watchers? I am thinking of replacing them with mordor fortress build plots, So you can build what you like there.

A picture with a Nazgûl and a Balrog for size comparison with the small side town. As one also can see the corpse light does not match up with the stuff.


The map still needs to be filled up and this will take time. The main reason why I posted this up is to get feedback and requests and ideas.

Thanks!

Edited by MattTheLegoman, 04 February 2011 - 11:38 AM.

[Námo]

I do hope you can see the image.

No, the first one is way too dark, the second one also rather dark.

Welcome to T3A.

Edited by Námo, 04 February 2011 - 12:09 PM.

[KingElessar2384]

You got mad skills Good images, besides the darkness of it. Try to add more brightness in the Morgul Glow.

[yams in a can]

Namo is talking about the pictures brightness...


I think it is amazing, and I am glad you find inspiration. Just to let you know, in the books, Minas Morgul has 4 levels. You could simply make this a 2 level map, and if you ever decided to, make a 4-level version.


Anyway, this looks glorious... :xcahik_

[yams in a can]

Nazgul you better look at this...

[Námo]

Namo is talking about the pictures brightness...

Yes, before they were replaced by some brighter ones; they are more clear now.

Edit: ... maybe they were nor replaced?!?; now they appear darker again, weird. May be a problem with instability in my system.

... Just to let you know, in the books, Minas Morgul has 4 levels. ...

Interesting ... where did you get the info on the four levels? A quote or just a reference would be appreciated.

Edit: You might be mixing it up with Cirith Ungol; that fortress had indeed 4 levels: the three lower levels plus the tower.

Edited by Námo, 05 February 2011 - 12:50 PM.

[Ar - Pharazon]

Great job ! it lokks already far more better than EA's vanilla Minas Morgul map ! I espiecially like the removing of the Two Watchers !

[Námo]

I espiecially like the removing of the Two Watchers!

Why?

The Watchers are true to the lore; the movie version of Minas Morgul was far enough removed from Tolkien's concept ... Minas Morgul was build by Gondor in the closing years of the 2nd Age, and was first captured by the Nazgûl two thousand years later. So, the real Minas Morgul is basically Gondorian architecture.

from the Thain's Book: The Watchers

Minas Morgul was guarded by the Silent Watchers. The Silent Watchers are not identified, but they may have been statues like the Two Watchers - possibly the human and bestial figures that stood at the head of the bridge over the Morgulduin. The Silent Watchers were aware of everything that came near Minas Morgul.

The Silent Watchers became uneasy when Frodo Baggins and Sam Gamgee came to the Morgul Vale and ascended the Stairs of Cirith Ungol. Gorbag of Minas Morgul was sent to investigate, and on March 13, 3019, of the Third Age, he and Shagrat of the Tower of Cirith Ungol captured Frodo.

------------

The Watchers of Cirith Ungol were called the Two Watchers and those of Minas Morgul were called the Silent Watchers.

[MattTheLegoman]

Haven't done any more work on the map. However thanks for the replies!

There will be two main levels, however the central tower will have a slightly higher ground.

I could always hide the gate watchers. However I also like the idea of choosing what fortress expansion to place there (catapult, gate watcher, archer tower) then you can rebuild them if they get destroyed.

Image of what I have done so far:


Here is a quote from TT:
"All was dark about it, earth and sky, but it was lit with light. ... Paler indeed than the moon ailing in some slow eclipse was the light of it now, wavering and blowing like a noisome exhalation of decay, a corpse-light, a light that illuminated nothing. In the walls and tower windows showed, like countless black holes looking inward into emptiness; but the topmost course of the tower revolved slowly, first one way and then another, a huge ghostly head leering into the night."

Realism will be Weta Workshop miniature, then book, however above is the best quote I could find from the book.

Anyway goto go.

[Námo]

Maybe this will be interesting also, in relation to the lighting effects that you want to make:

from The Two Towers: "The Stairs of Cirith Ungol"

... Minas Morgul answered. There was a flare of livid lightnings: forks of blue flame springing up from the tower and from the encircling hills into the sullen clouds. The earth groaned; and out of the city there came a cry. Mingled with harsh high voices as of birds of prey, and the shrill neighing of horses wild with rage and fear, there came a rending screech, shivering, rising swiftly to a piercing pitch beyond the range of hearing.

Other references can be found in the Thain's Book: Minas Ithil / Minas Morgul

Edited by Námo, 05 February 2011 - 01:14 PM.

[MattTheLegoman]

Maybe this will be interesting also, in relation to the lighting effects that you want to make:

from The Two Towers: "The Stairs of Cirith Ungol"

... Minas Morgul answered. There was a flare of livid lightnings: forks of blue flame springing up from the tower and from the encircling hills into the sullen clouds. The earth groaned; and out of the city there came a cry. Mingled with harsh high voices as of birds of prey, and the shrill neighing of horses wild with rage and fear, there came a rending screech, shivering, rising swiftly to a piercing pitch beyond the range of hearing.

Other references can be found in the Thain's Book: Minas Ithil / Minas Morgul

One quick reply before bed
Thanks for the lore and help. Discussion about Tolkien's Legendarium is definitely what I like. Yep, Thains book is a pretty good.

Lighting? I wonder how I can incorporate that... It is part of the flare that signalled the invasion.

Four levels of MM: accidentally found this while browsing Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia....Minas_ithil.jpg

I don't think I will be able to incorporate the exact idea of levels, however I can build into the mountain behind (Which is an open option).

[KingElessar2384]

Nazgul should come back and meet SEE's possible second mapper;) But I like the watchers being on the map; they should be able to give negative bonuses or fear to enemy troops. Also don't forget the Morgul Tower.

[Námo]

Four levels of MM: accidentally found this while browsing Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia....Minas_ithil.jpg

Which is just an 'artistic interpretation' by Matej Cadil, and as such no proof of how Tolkien envisioned it. The text from Wikipedia, where that image is used, has the following info:

[Minas Morgul] is featured in The Lord of the Rings film trilogy directed by Peter Jackson, most prominently in The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King. ... The Staircase and Tower of Cirith Ungol, and Shelob's Lair were all designed by John Howe, with the Morgul road using forced perspective into a bluescreened miniature. Unlike Minas Tirith, official artwork of Minas Morgul is extremely rare and inconsistent, which gave Howe considerable liberty in designing the city for the film. Howe's design of Minas Morgul was inspired from the experience of having wisdom teeth pulled out: in the same way, the Orcs have put their twisted designs on to a former Gondorian city. Cirith Ungol was based on Tolkien's design, but when Richard Taylor felt it as "boring", it was redesigned with more tipping angles.

There's nothing wrong in making artistic interpretations, I just prefer those who try to stay as true as possible to Tolkien's lore. Weta Workshop did a pretty convincing job; the same can't be said of EA's BfMe2 and RotWK, and some of their structures are simply horrible ugly.

[yams in a can]

Interesting ... where did you get the info on the four levels? A quote or just a reference would be appreciated.

Edit: You might be mixing it up with Cirith Ungol; that fortress had indeed 4 levels: the three lower levels plus the tower.

Well, it's actually from a picture

[MattTheLegoman]

I have worked on this map quite a bit in the last few days! However it doesn't look like it. This screen picture shows the most amount of detail work I have put in visually. Because of the larger scale of the buildings they all need impassable tiles, which is being a pain and the cause of many crashes. But progress is happening. As you can see in this picture, I have changed the lighting slightly (Bit lighter with a bit more blue in the mix) and made a few sections of the city of Minas Morgul.

This image shows a scene similar to another Lord of the Rings game. Try and guess which game. It is going to be another source for my design.

This image is what I am using for the map icon, it is a screenshot from the movie slightly edited.

Well, it's actually from a picture

from yams in a can
Well I had actually noticed that picture before. One thing that intrigues me from that picture is the lovely mountains behind Minas Morgul. I have tried various ways to make my mountains have some rocky, overhanging crags. But without success. I wonder if there is some ways to get my mountains to look like that in world builder.

P.S. Also I have not replaced any images in this topic.

P.P.S. That Morgul glow is annoying me, it is in completely the wrong place. I actually shrink the gate to scale 0.01 when I am designing. So is there an easier way to align it than modelling and coding or if someone else could. Otherwise I will put modelling and coding the Morgul glow into the list of things to do after I have finished the map.

Edited by MattTheLegoman, 09 February 2011 - 08:36 AM.

[Ar - Pharazon]

Great job ! But I would say , Namo , that in BFME 2 the Watchers are completely useless , and for now , I don't see what he couldn't replace those Watchers .But I'm not against the fact we could made them useful , to scare the units ....

[MattTheLegoman]

Great job ! But I would say , Namo , that in BFME 2 the Watchers are completely useless , and for now , I don't see what he couldn't replace those Watchers .But I'm not against the fact we could made them useful , to scare the units ....

The watchers are a little help at the very least. But making them useful in my map or actually in the Special Extended Edition. I vote for both. However it may take some time fiddling with the triggers in my map. I was planning detrimental effects (lower health, lower attack) on units within the 'scare away' radius of the watchers.

[KingElessar2384]

That one pic reminds me of Lord of the Rings Conquest; the one with the Nazgul statues:)

[yams in a can]

Same here :-D

[yams in a can]

Same here :-D