6 replies to this topic

[Emperor of the East]

I wanted to say some stuff about Peter Jackson adding Explosive mines to the Isengard faction. I have searched both of the most reliable sources on Tolkien's works (Thain's Book and Encyclopedia of Arda) for the terms "bomb", "explosive mine", and "fire of isengard", and nothing came up. It constantly told me that what I am searching for does not exist.

I already know that some loremasters cherry-pick non-canon concepts in a way that allows Peter Jackson's non-Tolkien ideas to pass. That is dishonest. Now, I am not saying that no non-Tolkien concept should exist, if anything I like PJ's idea of 14th-century-style black powder weapons existing in Middle-earth. Additionally, I am not saying that there should be no consideration to what is and isn't canonical, I have a high level of concern for staying true to the lore, which is why I despised EA's non-Tolkien concepts.

This post is saying keep the explosive mines in the Isengard faction, because Jackson gave Isengard gunpowder the same way Dark-shire gave Haradrim their own version of Arabic and Easterlings their own version of Turkish: by checking on all aspects of Tolkien's works before installing the element: geography, technology, culture, arda being our earth in a mythological time (making it an alternate universe, and not our universe), realism (the priority in this mod), and of course the chronological order in which things happened (and the month, day, and year they happened)

All I am saying is I have done some research and Gunpowder does not exist in Tolkien's version of Middle-earth, just in Peter Jackson's. Besides, this mod is based on the movies first and the books second. A concept I am in favor of, since the movies filled in many of the books' blanks .

[Nertea]

It depends on how you interpret the quote regarding the blasting-fire in TTT:

"Orcs have brought a devilry from Orthanc," said Aragorn. "They have a blasting fire, and with it they took the wall"

Mentioned several times in the chapter as destroying the wall and the gate arch.

There's also a description of either gunpowder or sorcery in RotK - with reference to Sauron's forces blasting through the Rammas.

Now ever and anon there was a red flash, and slowly through the air dull rumbles could be heard. "They have taken the wall!" Men cried. "They are blasting breaches in it. They are coming!"

both of the most reliable sources on Tolkien's works (Thain's Book and Encyclopedia of Arda)

[Emperor of the East]

Hmm. It's been a while since I read the books. And I didn't mean that those two sources are the most reliable, just the most reliable on the web. I understand that that books are the best sources.

[Lauri]

The movies filled over many of the books full-written pages as well

But this is a movie 1st mod, so there wouldn't have been any doubt about it

[Námo]

Don't forget the fireworks made by Gandalf.

Although he did himself let off most of it, at the long-expected party there were also "a generous distribution of squibs, crackers, backarappers, snarklers, torches, dwarf-candles, elf-fountains, goblin-barkers and thunder-claps." ... without being an expert on various sort of fireworks, I would say that in this case Gandalf undoubtedly made his fireworks using some sort of gunpowder, not magic.

[Lauri]

I thought alot of that also came from Dale? In which case it couldn't have been magic..

[Námo]

From Dale? ... or from Erebor?

From A Long-expected Party:

The fireworks were by Gandalf: they were not only brought by him, but designed and made by him; and the special effects, set pieces, and flights of rockets were let off by him.

This of course doesn't exclude that the raw materials were provided by the Dwarves of Erebor, as they were heavily involved in delivering various goods to Bilbo's preparations for the party.