97 replies to this topic

[johnchm.10]

so it occurred to me that the new republic eventually gained access to a decent number of imperial equipment, like a few ISD-2's, a lot of TIE's, at least a pair of executors (lusankya and i think it was guardian), a handful of interdictors, VSD's etc, and in many cases there were extensive refits done, like with allegiance, late era VSD's, adding shields to the TIE's, etc. could there be an option for the NR to build some of these craft, even in limited numbers? and how about some other ships from the New Class modernization program?

[evilbobthebob]

In our later era campaign (Operation Shadow Hand) the NR gets a number of captured Imperial ships as starting forces on some carefully chosen worlds. Beyond this it doesn't make much sense for them to construct more. The New Class Modernization program is difficult to deal with due to the lack of art assets available and the generally poor reference material about the ships.

[Stormhawk]

First off, welcome to the forums.

At least Lusankya is in the mod, as Wedge Antilles's final upgrade. I think Guardian is also planned to be implemented as Ackbar's final upgrade as well?

[Ghostrider]

First off, welcome to the forums.

At least Lusankya is in the mod, as Wedge Antilles's final upgrade. I think Guardian is also planned to be implemented as Ackbar's final upgrade as well?

Guardian is not currently in the mod, and the Republic only uses leftover/captured Imperial craft. While the empire does get some very nice upgrades with the Vic III and shielded TIE's courtesy of Thrawn, these are still fairly rare.

Don't forget the Hajen and Sacheen are New Fleet Modernisation units and are quite tasty if you can research them. And upgraded Republics are lovely, so with the addition of the E-Wing, and with a good range of heavily upgraded Mon Calamari units in the late era settings, NR has a fair bit to choose from. But if you are really thinking about taking on Soverign, big ships are vulnerable to that superlaser, so I suggest researching the K-Wing instead, or upgrading the YT-2000 series for some tough little armored transports. Oh yes - and even venerably Y-Wings have their place with the addition of Proton Rockets.

[Kitkun]

Art assets are the bane of modding, especially for a game like EaW.
Though in PR, once you've got a properly rigged model and a unit design, it's actually quite easy to add and balance stuff. (At least for space.) It's just that first step that's such a pain.

Edited by Kitkun, 23 December 2011 - 07:34 PM.

[johnchm.10]

ah yes, i had forgotten about the NCMP ref. material issue. my bad. and i see the reasoning behind not building new imp craft when playing as the NR.
oh, secondary to this, and i know i can probably edit the xml's to do this, but at a certain point in certain class' development, such as with the Nebulon-B class, couldnt more modern starfighters be carried?
in this case going from af-series headhunters, like the AF-2 to the early t65 x-wings, say the C-model, or something along that line of thought.
the headhunters werent used in normal operations by the new republic to the best of my knowledge, especially if it was an af3 or earlier. even the trainer was retired after they had the t65 training variant. granted the alliance used the headhunters in covert operations up to and including the liberation of coruscant, and there were private owners that were affiliated with the new rep, and i can imagine some NR worlds having headhunters in service as planetary defense forces, but it doesnt make much sense for a modern starship to carry fighters and bombers. just about all of the general service fighter squadrons in the post-endor era were using the x, y, a, and b-wings, the e-wings when they came around, as well as shielded and likely modernized ties in some of the more remote sectors, and the k-wings in the fifth fleet, with the elite squadrons like rogue and wraith flying more modern versions of the x-wing, or in the case of the wraiths, a mix of x-wings and tie fighters/later interceptors, but outside the covert operations/groups, i cant see it happening. its like imagining the modern day nimitz carriers launching f4f wildcats from world war 2

[johnchm.10]

oh, and is Mon Remonda on the list of add-ons? as a hero unit for han solo, seeing how it was his flagship during the zsinji campaign

[Kitkun]

Few, if any, complements change ships on upgrade. However, they should upgrade to a newer variant which should keep them from being too obsolete.
The newer, more expensive squadrons would also make a nasty jump in price and build time in some cases as well. That and the way the game works is that any complement can be lost but will be instantly replaced after the battle if the carrier ship survives, or if the carrier dies and the complement survives, they are still lost. Imagine facing an endless horde of Defenders or losing a dozen K-Wing squadrons without a fight!

Don't know about the Mon Remonda, but as it's an art asset they haven't had in the previous releases, it may well not make it.

[Ghostrider]

Few, if any, complements change ships on upgrade. However, they should upgrade to a newer variant which should keep them from being too obsolete.
The newer, more expensive squadrons would also make a nasty jump in price and build time in some cases as well. That and the way the game works is that any complement can be lost but will be instantly replaced after the battle if the carrier ship survives, or if the carrier dies and the complement survives, they are still lost. Imagine facing an endless horde of Defenders or losing a dozen K-Wing squadrons without a fight!

Don't know about the Mon Remonda, but as it's an art asset they haven't had in the previous releases, it may well not make it.

That's not quite true. Many units feature expanded hangars as they upgrade (i.e increase in their complements), ocassionally with a change (upgrade) in complement as well; Dreadnaught Heavy Cruier, CC9600; Valiant MC40; Quasar Fire Bulk Cruiser; Dominator STar Destroyer and Super VIII Bulk cruiser to name a few. The Valiant starts with Headhunters, which upgrade to X-Wings in the b variant, and the Dominator III adds Tie Defenders, while the Super VIII sees a range of complement upgrades.

We don't have the model for the Mon Remonda, but it's top of the wish list.

[johnchm.10]

ah. another hero unit possibility: Wraith Squadron. probably been brought up, but the progression could be a squad of T-65C's followed up by a composite of T-65F's and TIE Fighters x3, followed up by a comp of T-65I's and x3 TIE Interceptors, followed up by maybe Night Caller, with any of the preceding setups as embarked craft. and i would imagine that having the wraiths as ground heroes wouldnt be outside the realm of possibility, as they were formed with an eye towards commando duty

[nimiz]

What about the great MC80B model from Thrawn's Revenge?

problem with complements is that its too disturbing to see old Y-Wings or Z-95s fighting for the NR a lot after they are replaced by X-Wings and B-Wings (and more of course).

maybe working around the build time change of different complements with 'proxy' units that contain the same stats of the original but for another price and build time?

[johnchm.10]

exactly the point i'm trying to make.

come to think of it, Mon Remonda, if added, could have the hypothetical level 2 or 3 Wraiths, Rogue Squadron flying F or I-model X-wings, Polearm flying Mark 3 or 4 A-wings, and Nova flying E/3 B-wings. she carried those squadrons during the zsinji campaign, and as they were highly regarded, they'd be better equipped

ive not seen that model, but the thrawn's revenge guys do a fine job, so they've probably got the thing play-tested and fine-tuned to the point where its just waiting to be researched and built

[Kitkun]

That's not quite true. Many units feature expanded hangars as they upgrade (i.e increase in their complements), ocassionally with a change (upgrade) in complement as well; Dreadnaught Heavy Cruier, CC9600; Valiant MC40; Quasar Fire Bulk Cruiser; Dominator STar Destroyer and Super VIII Bulk cruiser to name a few. The Valiant starts with Headhunters, which upgrade to X-Wings in the b variant, and the Dominator III adds Tie Defenders, while the Super VIII sees a range of complement upgrades.

Hah, whoops. Mostly ships I don't use a lot.

[Phoenix Rising]

so it occurred to me that the new republic eventually gained access to a decent number of imperial equipment, like a few ISD-2's, a lot of TIE's, at least a pair of executors (lusankya and i think it was guardian), a handful of interdictors, VSD's etc, and in many cases there were extensive refits done, like with allegiance, late era VSD's, adding shields to the TIE's, etc. could there be an option for the NR to build some of these craft, even in limited numbers?

There's a big difference between capturing and building from scratch. EaW doesn't have a true capture feature, so we handle those types of units through starting forces.

oh, secondary to this, and i know i can probably edit the xml's to do this, but at a certain point in certain class' development, such as with the Nebulon-B class, couldnt more modern starfighters be carried?

This happens on occasion. For example, the Venator starts with 384 TIE Fighters and eventually half of those become Interceptors. I generally don't like to speculate with complements on hypothetical upgrades, so it's mostly seen early on: Liberty MC80 has a R-41 squadron; MC80a replaces it with A-wings.

problem with complements is that its too disturbing to see old Y-Wings or Z-95s fighting for the NR a lot after they are replaced by X-Wings and B-Wings (and more of course).

The main reason you're seeing older starfighters is because the carriers themselves are old. This is partly mechanic (the difference in tech levels between complement and carrier determines upgrade quality) and partly logic (the NR isn't going to assign brand new fighters to ships that are slated to be mothballed). In the later campaigns, sometimes a Nebulon-B is a Nebulon-B and sometimes it's a Corona... we just don't have all the right pieces yet.

[johnchm.10]

lol. Surely, you can't be serious!
http://starwars.wiki...-95_starfighter
I don't even know why i find this disgusting

Edited by johnchm.10, 31 December 2011 - 04:50 AM.

[Kitkun]

Seems odd.
The Z-95 is already more than a decade old by the time of the Clone Wars, and possibly quite a bit older. Why make a variant of a ship that's already outdated? It's a high-performance fighter, so as soon as the next thing comes along it's obsolete... and ships like the ARC-170, V-Wing, etc. should be filling that role.

Edited by Kitkun, 31 December 2011 - 05:56 AM.

[johnchm.10]

i can see the "clone-95" being used as a trainer, or a light attack aircraft, similar to some older jet-trainers for the air force, since the '95, the ARC, and possibly some other late-era old republic fighters and bombers use similar control interfaces, or as a planetary defense fighter for some mid to low priority world, or even as reinforcements if a battle got really bad, but not as a front line starfighter.
maybe if they were used instead of the N-1 naboo starfighters, for example, as they were still pretty new in that time-frame, although possibly with some more 'royal' trim, color, w/e, which would also create continuity with the original trilogy, as the basic designs for the Z-95's had been in the lucas-archives for close to a decade probably, the fighter has the right set of capabilities, and honestly, it looks more like a fighter than the N-1

[evilbobthebob]

If you think about the amount of time between the Clone Wars and the New Republic, it's not actually that long. To take modern combat aircraft as a guide, the F-18 Hornet has been in air forces since the early 1980s and is projected to remain in service until 2020 in some air forces. In the mean time, the aircraft has also been upgraded and improved upon. In the case of the Hornet, the X-Wing is probably a better comparison due to being a multi-role carrier based fighter, but I think the general lifetime (around 30-40 years) still works as a comparison.

[johnchm.10]

point taken. i guess i cant stand how the TCW crew is treating the saga. i'll buy the usage of artistic liberties, like old versions of the Y-wing, or some screen time for smaller ships possibly not viewed in the films, or even seeing some references to what is yet to come, but having things like a bounty hunter who is active at age 12, and the 'Resurrection' of some guy who had a 'small role' in one of the movies (trying to avoid spoilers there), and a whole load of other things, its just too much.

[Kitkun]

I placed too much emphasis on the age. What really strikes me as odd is that, by all appearances, the Z-95's successors are already there in the form of the zillion other fighters in the Clone Wars. Just using the Z-95 I'd have no problems with. But in this case it seems more like reinventing a new air-superiority variant of the F-15 to compete with the F-22.
And now that I think about it, like the X-Wing continuing on despite the E-Wing. So I guess just ignore me. I really need to stop posting just before and after sleep.

Edited by Kitkun, 31 December 2011 - 04:12 PM.