97 replies to this topic

[johnchm.10]

come to think of it, i remember this game Descent: Freespace: The Great War that had a similar situation regarding its fighters; this one fighter, the Hercules, had worse speed, acceleration, and maneuverability compared to all of the other fighters, had worse speed than 1 bomber, was matched compared to a second bomber, and only greater than a third bomber. her hull and shields were better than the fighters, but on avg, worse than the bombers. she had more gun mounts than the fighters and bombers, but 2 of the bombers each had a gun turret. she could carry more missiles than the fighters, but couldnt carry the nice, heavy, anti-capital ship ordinance like the bombers. bottom line, she couldnt dogfight without draining power from her guns and shields to feed her engines, but also couldnt take on large capital ships due to her lack of heavy weapons. didnt like the looks of the bird either.
freespace and its sequel were/are great sim's btw. on par with X-wing Alliance in some areas, and actually better in a couple. only downside is that there's no third installment planned, even on paper. i certainly recommend it for any XWA fan
alas, i digress.
come to think of it, im kinda surprised i havent seen the T-wing at all
i think thats one of the few XWA fighters outside the TIE experimentals (the TIE M series) not in the game

[johnchm.10]

i stand corrected. theres actually a dozen fighter/bombers that didnt make the transition, and god know how many other ships

[Hanti]

I just wonder if this ship will be introduced into 1.2 Shadow Hand campaign:
Allegiance

Allegiance class destroyers were escorting the Eclipse at Cyax, a few years after Palpatine's fall.
These destroyers were ubiquitous in situations involving a heavy fleet presence. They operated in an escort formation with the Eclipse, and participated in the enforcement of the security cordon around the planet Byss. Allegiance was the largest destroyer present at the Battle of Calamari. [Dark Empire, Dark Empire II]
Info

Should this ship suits well the mod?

[johnchm.10]

i dont think so. not much has been revealed about the ship. taken straight at face value, its an Imperial-class Star Destroyer, that has been stripped of any apparent hanger facilities, has a length that is apparently greater than that of the standard ISD, and has a reactor core that is either larger or has heavier armor plating over it, judging from the larger "bulb" on the ventral side of the vessel.
these details could suggest that there were some errors made by the designer of the comic that we take most of the little information we know. for all we know, the ship may just be nothing more than a modified or even standard Tector-class Star Destroyer, which is just an Imperial class, but with no hanger facilities, with a resulting boost in performance for pretty much everything else compared to the Imperial Class (less crew requirements, more space for other supplies, no power drain from the hanger facilities, less mass due to the lack of hanger and resulting crew, etc).

[Zeta1127]

I just wonder if this ship will be introduced into 1.2 Shadow Hand campaign:
Allegiance

Allegiance class destroyers were escorting the Eclipse at Cyax, a few years after Palpatine's fall.
These destroyers were ubiquitous in situations involving a heavy fleet presence. They operated in an escort formation with the Eclipse, and participated in the enforcement of the security cordon around the planet Byss. Allegiance was the largest destroyer present at the Battle of Calamari. [Dark Empire, Dark Empire II]
Info

Should this ship suits well the mod?

The Allegiance and the Eclipse's escorts are technically called the Imperial-class Star Battlecruiser. I would even go so far as to say the Imperial Star Battlecruiser from the height of the Galactic Empire that Imperial-class Star Destroyers were supposed to escort are the same class. While they haven't been formally declared to be the Imperial-class Star Battlecruiser with the Allegiance being the only named representative, they are so similar, they must be the same class as far as I am concerned. I would love to see them, but the model is too detailed for EaW.

Edited by Zeta1127, 20 February 2012 - 07:29 AM.

[P.O._210877]

I follow the thread on the CGTW, go check it out, jasonfry's second post is the starting point.

Looks like all the Fractalspounge fans out there will have a major geekgasam.

Personally, I'm as anxious about the release of this book as I am about PR 1.2

I believe that Nertea's going to be busy for some time to come...

Edited by P.O._210877, 20 February 2012 - 06:34 AM.

[Hanti]

i dont think so. not much has been revealed about the ship. taken straight at face value, its an Imperial-class Star Destroyer, that has been stripped of any apparent hangar facilities, has a length that is apparently greater than that of the standard ISD, and has a reactor core that is either larger or has heavier armor plating over it, judging from the larger "bulb" on the ventral side of the vessel.
these details could suggest that there were some errors made by the designer of the comic that we take most of the little information we know. for all we know, the ship may just be nothing more than a modified or even standard Tector-class Star Destroyer, which is just an Imperial class, but with no hanger facilities, with a resulting boost in performance for pretty much everything else compared to the Imperial Class (less crew requirements, more space for other supplies, no power drain from the hanger facilities, less mass due to the lack of hanger and resulting crew, etc).

"We've done it! That super star destroyer was caught with its deflector shields down, it's hit!"
―Wedge Antilles

If Wedge said that, this ship must be much larger than ISD, although maybe similar in shape. I've seen it in other mods as larger and stronger ISD, so I ask about her in PR.

Some shots of it

[johnchm.10]

im not saying it shouldnt be added, but there are so few stats on the ship that i personally would be hesitant about adding it
theres only one site that i found that has stats on it, but that site im hesitant about using due to some "liberties" taken
http://www.galactic-...r Destroyer.htm

[johnchm.10]

if they give updates to the stats in the upcoming Guide to Warfare book, then by all means. id def go for a lower poly model, due to game limitations, but its still touchy i feel.

[Ghostrider]

The problem with the Allegiance is the lack of art or desciptions apart from the one image in Dark Empires.

What surprises me is that something twice the size of an Imperial-class (and presumably built with Imperial-II era technology) gets caught above Mon Calamari with it's pants down and gets a good smacking.

Even a green Lieutenant would be aware that the Mon Cal's would fight back, so why was it so vulnerable?.
One can therefore assume one of 2 things:
1. It is a prototype and experienced a critical malfunction after reverting to realspace with a split second delay in getting the shields on line with disatrous results.
2. Some idiot sent it into battle with only a caretaker crew, fresh from the construction yard and it was therefore chronically understaffed with unskilled crew members on the bridge. This is pretty unbelievable though.

I cannot believe that even anyone senior enought to have command of the Allegiance would be stupid enough to make this level of blunder so are they even on board, or has something happened?

Very strange.
In any case there are lots of unanswered questions about this battlecruiser making it more of a challenge when considering adding it to the mod - as we don't want to add a "wrong" ship to the mod, let alone the more basic problems of how to kitbash it (and from what original model) and what armaments to give it?

[Phoenix Rising]

It's a great intermediary class between the Imperial and Executor, but we'd need a gaming model and stats - certainly an undisputed length, minimum. I like the idea of a light battleship for the Empire at around 2400, which would allow us to rethink the Praetor to a slightly more realistic (bigger) size, but I can't rig a ship that size on comic estimation alone and eventually have it turn out to be wrong.

Ghost, it was the main communications ship for the battle and it was transmitting broadband hyperwave images of the attack. Emancipator picked them up while in hyperspace, course corrected, came out on top of it, and smacked it with the frontal batteries of the entire first wave reinforcements from Da Soocha. You know how obsessed the Emperor is with picture quality from ESB.

[johnchm.10]

if it were in game, and if i was making the ship, id make it an upgunned Imperial 4, but without the experimental turbos. then add 20% more guns to each system, i e 12 additional heavy laser turrets, 4 turreted turboions, etc. then upgrade the number of guns in each turret (singles become duals, etc.) compared to the base. for the octuple guns, give them that +1 thing, so each gun is more powerful. for the torpedo armaments, id upgrade them to the Heavy Advanced kind and increase the rate of fire from 16 to 20, and the same goes for concussion missiles, with the rate of fire going from 24 to 30. for shields and hull, figure an increase of 20-30%.
i personally do not like the lack of hanger facilities, but, there might be a work around. the main hanger deck of the venator is protected by those massive, thick hanger doors, but due to limitations in the game engine, only the side hangers are used. one could hypothesize that a similar case could exist for the Ale. if there were to be fighters carried aboard ship, i would make them 7 or 8 squadrons of some of the more advanced TIE models. 1 squadron would be Scimitar bombers, figure x1-3. 3 squadrons would be Interceptor x4's. 1 squadron would be Avenger x2's. a squad of Defender x2s. the last squad would be a full squad of Xg-3 or 4 Starwings.
my reasoning for the massive increase in firepower is due to the fact that pretty much everything else got an upgrade, even down to individual AT-AT's. even if its not the Eclipse or one of the Sovereigns its still one of the larger, fewer, and more important ships, thus it would need better escorts
oh, and those were just for the basic production model, lol. Allegiance herself would at least improve the fighters by one or 2 upgrades

[Hanti]

Am I right that most NR ships from New Class Modernization Program aren't in the mod?
I've seen some of these ships in Legacy Era Mod (Republic, Defender).
Also they have similar/same laser effects in Legacy Mod as in TR mod. I hope that there's a chance for these also in PR


defender1
defender2

Edited by Hanti, 23 February 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[Zeta1127]

Am I right that most NR ships from New Class Modernization Program aren't in the mod?
I've seen some of these ships in Legacy Era Mod (Republic, Defender).
Also they have similar/same laser effects in Legacy Mod as in TR mod. I hope that there's a chance for these also in PR

PR wants to see them as much as we do, he just doesn't have the models for them, same thing with the Imperial-class Star Battlecruiser that has been mentioned, the Viscount-class Star Defender, and the Strident-class Star Defender.

[SpardaSon21]

The Sins of a Galactic Empire mod for Sins of a Solar Empire has the Viscount modeled thanks to Warb_Null.

[Zeta1127]

The Sins of a Galactic Empire mod for Sins of a Solar Empire has the Viscount modeled thanks to Warb_Null.

I noticed that, but have been hesitant to try to open a dialogue between PR and Warb_Null to get it into the mod.

[evilbobthebob]

The EaW modding scene is frustrating sometimes because art asset creators are so scarce that they tend to keep produced models close to the mod they were created for. Warb_null is one of the few exceptions. It's meant that a lot of mods work off evillejedi's free-released Warlords models from years ago. Mods that have their own graphics are usually protective of them. The community isn't particularly close-knit either, so communication between mod teams is difficult.

[Phoenix Rising]

I'm sitting on a Viscount model from FileFront. Not sure if it's serviceable or not, as I haven't tried to convert it. Trying to focus on earlier units before late.

[johnchm.10]

lol. SSD on SSD action. me gusta!

[johnchm.10]

so i just had a thought regarding the Tector-Class. the part where it pertains to the in-game performance comes a bit later, so bear with me here.
it lacks Hanger facilities, so might it also lack the troop capacity of the Imperial-Class (including walkers and the pre-fab base)? and given that it is lacking the hanger, along with the personnel in that department, as well as the ground troops and their gear, as well as the presumable reduction in parts needed (power conduits, mess halls, and other "living amenities" for lack of a better term, wouldn't the ship be slightly less massive, and having a slightly lower supply requirement, leading to a boost in performance of the engines?
i know that the shields and hull are improved in the Tector, as is the armament to an extent, but the ship is actually slower. i mean granted, the additional hull plating would take up a lot of the lost mass, but the TSD is still 20 percent slower.
is that a balancing issue or something?