11 replies to this topic

[Emperor of the East]

Something I noticed about these two civilizations is they have a written language in the movies that the letters for look like a hybrid of Quenya letters and Arabic letters. In the books, their generals & commanders had names in Quenya, for example "Ulfang" means "stinking traitor".

I noticed this mod's priorities with source material are:

• Peter Jackson's lotrMovies
  
• JRR Tolkien's lotr Books
  
• Games Workshop's lotr tabletop game

I think the hybrid language from the movies is more realistic, but perhaps we should use the Quenya language to name Rhun and Harad heroes, it would be a fine contrast to the Gondorian usage of Sindarian names. What do you guys think? Should we stay true to the movie-feel of the mod by giving them names that combine, for example, Quenya prefixes with Arabic suffixes; or should we make the mod more lore-like by only using Quenya? Or, a third option, should we give Haradrim Arabic names & Easterlings Mandarin names like Games Workshop did?

Vote all ya want, comment afterward

[MattTheLegoman]

Writing style like this?

I'll see if I can find a text font.

EDIT: I can't find a computer font so I can make one to be compatible with quenya, not based on tengwa, but super-stylised. I would stay away, as much as I can, from naskh and nastaʿlīq. And rather draw from Aztec and other South American pictogram and text styles.

Edited by MattTheLegoman, 16 July 2012 - 04:20 AM.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

Symbol outline:

Pictures of the Weta Easterling Helmet:

[MattTheLegoman]

That looks really awesome! Link please.

I have started with the Haradrim/Tengwar font. Here is my work so far.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

I've gotta get me some of that! Though I thought it'd be more based on African/Indian symbolism.

EDIT:

Link please

What to?

Edited by FellbeastIII, 16 July 2012 - 09:34 AM.

[MattTheLegoman]

Link to wherever you got the images.
African/Indian/Middle-eastern is what I am avoiding.

EDIT: Actually I am using a Middle-eastern brush for the varied thickness and flourishes.

Edited by MattTheLegoman, 16 July 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

Ah, fair enough. But where I got the images was Imageshack, and those posted were the only ones in that folder/collection.

[Nazgûl]

Coooooooooooool!

[Arthadan]

Names in Quenya would be the names given by the Gondorians to the Easterling and Haradrim enemy Generals (i.e. "Stinking traitor), but they won't call that themselves. Adûnaic could be a choice for Haradrim with Black Númenorean ancestors.

I'd go for the GW approach.

[Irenë Hawnetyne]

The GW approach? Where they make random shit up like Suladân and gave Nazgûl names? Personally, as you can tell, I think that their stuff's far too biased 'for the sake of gameplay'.

However, concerning languages, if you're looking into the more ancient First Age Númenorean Easterlings, you'll find that the names consist of a Quenya dialect which towards the end of FA merges with the Atani blended language Taliska, most prominently in Andúnië, the capital of Númenórë, due to the frequency of exchanges with the Elven ships setting port there. During SA, prior to Akallabêth, the inhabitants of Andúnië were deported to Middle-earth as heretics to Morgoth. Thus, the Quenya-Adûnaic tongue travelled back to Middle-earth as a more or less alien tongue with the Dunedain ancestry.
Post-Akallabêth, however, the surviving Black Númenoreans continued to use a more distinctly original Adûnaic tongue in TA, making it a language used only by them, due to the rest of the World having left or evolved it, thus naming it Black Adûnaic.

So, basically, First Age Númenoreans used Quenya, Second Age faithful Númenoreans used Quenya-Adûnaic, Second Age Black Númenoreans used Black (original) Adûnaic, and this continued into the Third and Fourth Ages, however we do have evidence of many Númenoreans using Westron as a first language, such as the Mouth of Sauron and Aragorn.

[Arthadan]

Sorry for the late response (about one year and half, OMG!), but as the Nazgûl returns to Barad-dûr evil stirs again.

 

Irenë you're right regarding Númenóreans. But this was about Haradrim and Easterling languages which had a completely different development.

 

We only know that in the First Age, Men who came from Hildórien to Beleriand spoke Taliska which was a mix of the speech of the Avari, the speech of the Dwarves and the primitive language of Men. But how did that language evolve until late Third Age is unknown.

 

However, Tolkien choose Old English for the Rohirric Speech not because they truly spoke that but because it has with the modern English the same relation than the true Rohirric language has with Westron (and Westron is represented by modern English in the books). Taking that in account I guess it is right to use real old eastern languages for Easterlings, with some new words with Dwarven roots or brand new but following the grammar of the chosen language (i.e. Tolkien made up "Hobytla" in Rohirric).

[Nazgûl]

...as the Nazgûl returns to Barad-dûr evil stirs again.