Morality (involves extreme stuff)

For making a mistake? Do you honestly believe everyone in prison is there for making a bloody mistake?! I am sure that many, many inmates regret what they did. I am sure many were unjustly accused. And who can possibly know how many are there because a racist, corrupt government ensured that they would be economically desperate enough to commit crimes. But as for the child molesters? The rapists? The serial killers? Some people simply cannot be trusted to be around other people. They will kill them. This may seem dehumanizing, but it is nonetheless true; if you have three rats and one keeps trying to fight and kill the others, would you not remove that one from the cage (rats was the first thing that came to mind as I have one on my shoulder right now, there's no deeper significance)? The jail system is quite far from perfect. But even in a society where the common man is no longer pushed into such desperate postions where he must steal or kill for survival, you will still have certain mentally unbalanced people who will by nature kill, and for no particular reason. There's not much you can do with them. They need to be isolated or killed. I'd rather see them isolated. Probably not in the current day prisons, but the fact still stands.

Also, you want to prove to me that virtually every cop in the prison's are corrupt? I know some cops, some nice guys and others total dicks, and I'm getting kinda sick of all the bullshit about them all being itchy - trigger - fingered corrupt killers.

Really? If people were as forgiving and peaceful as that, chances are the opposite would be true.

I doubt it. It still wouldn't take away a need to kill, but only people would get away with it.

"Sorry, I just stabbed your son, because I don't like black people"
"Oh, ok, past is past."

There would be no order or law in society. Nothing would have consequences, therefore what would be the point in people sticking to societies laws, as they could do what ever they wanted



Matias, your taking a neutral spectator point of view. Put yourself in someones shoes who has been through or is going through a situation like this.
Your saying justice is pathetic. Why? People can not just go through life doing what ever the hell they want, with out there actions having consequences. (if the actions are bad)


If, touchwood it never happens, someone in your close family was brutally slaugtered because they were of a different race, or because their hair was a different colour, I'm sure you would change your passive "moral" view. I cant believe that you would still be passive about it.

Edited by olli, 18 January 2008 - 02:04 PM.

I was calling your self-proclaimed justice pathetic, not justice in general. Vigilancy is bad, uncontrolled and coming from a clouded individual, obsessed by revenge, self-pity and with a complete lack of objectivity, and thus a completely lack of justice. Certain actions invoke certain consequences, that's the way it is. There are set regulations with a reason, they are supposed to be reasonable and dependable in various situations. You however, filled with anger, are in NO position to judge anyone like that. If someone kills your mother and gets away with it, take it to court. Physical revenge just creates more violence, and you'd stoop to the same level of the one you hate so much.

Edited by Matias, 18 January 2008 - 06:15 PM.

"Sorry, I just stabbed your son, because I don't like black people"
"Oh, ok, past is past."

You know , If people really were peaceful , that wouldn't have happened in the first place.

The fact is they are not.
Just because the rest of society takes that stance, there will always be people who will not be peacful, and wil see it as a window of opertunity to do "what ever the hell they like"

Matias, put it this way. If or when you become a father of a child, I'm sure you will love that child with all your heart. You would do anything for the child, and probabaly, like all parents you would be prepared to give your life to save your child. Your children, like all parents say, would be "your world", to put it bluntly.

Now imagine some sick twisted fuck got hold of it, and did some sick evil things with it, and then killed it. (and imigine your child was about 4 or 5).

Now would you honestly think that taking the paedophile to court, and him being sent to prison would be adequate punishment or justice?

Would I feel that way? Maybe not. Would that be relevant? Absolutely not. There is a reason we have created HUMANE ways of punishments, such as reducing the meaning of their lives absolutely nothing. Having them rot in an empty room with short breaks for meals and sometimes brutal rapings. We do not torture for a reason, we are trying to create a little thing called "civilization." Does mean suppressing our base, violent, brutal instincts? Yes. This means accepting the fact that sometimes you're not going to be allowed to brutalize people. That impulse that says "It's okay to brutalize and kill this person" is the same that told that pedophile "It's okay to rape this girl." The court system was set up to try and stop the endless cycle of merciless killing. You know in history books, when you hear about the Salem Witch Trials and Vlad the Impaler? Yeah, that's how we're trying NOT to be remembered.

Would I feel that way? Maybe not. Would that be relevant? Absolutely not. There is a reason we have created HUMANE ways of punishments, such as reducing the meaning of their lives absolutely nothing. Having them rot in an empty room with short breaks for meals and sometimes brutal rapings. We do not torture for a reason, we are trying to create a little thing called "civilization." Does mean suppressing our base, violent, brutal instincts? Yes. This means accepting the fact that sometimes you're not going to be allowed to brutalize people. That impulse that says "It's okay to brutalize and kill this person" is the same that told that pedophile "It's okay to rape this girl." The court system was set up to try and stop the endless cycle of merciless killing. You know in history books, when you hear about the Salem Witch Trials and Vlad the Impaler? Yeah, that's how we're trying NOT to be remembered.

Sums up what I was going to say.

Well, that is true and one way of looking at it.

But the thing is paedophiles are kept seperate from other prison members, precisely because of the rapings and abuse and tourture they would recieve.
All prison convicts, even murders hate and detest paedophiles, so much that they would honestly kill them with there bare hands.


Why keep they seperate? They desvere it, and they are already in prison so whats the harm? I would feel some satisfaction knowing that the paedophile was being beaten to an inch of his life every day, if my son/daughter had died at the hands of a paedophile.


And prison isn't what it used to be. People don't "rot" anymore. The rooms they stay in are more like really cheap youth hostels, not a prison.
A prison to me should be a dark, dank room. Thats it. If they need to go to the toilet, then they best designate a corner in the room. The only meals they get are a loaf of stale bread a day and a dish of water. Thats what prisons/dungeons used to be like back in medievil times, and I think they should be like that to day for the convicts who have done something serious. Then they would truely "rot" away. Again, this should be enough punishment and justice to any parents who have had thier children killed by paedophiles.

Sure , they are assholes. But it's really not .... sane , to have them "designate a corner in the room".
The thing with prisons is that it's not meant to torture people , it's meant to keep them from the rest of the world.
I personally would think that complete isolation is the worst punishment one can get.

But they aren't isolated. They mix with other people every single day... of their own kind.... and the prison guards, so they aren't completely cut off.

Hence, why I think that they should be treated as above.

Edited by olli, 19 January 2008 - 10:35 PM.

reminds me of some cut material Moore from the sicko movie about some open prison here in Norway. where you had a murderer who killed a guy with a chainsaw, using a chainsaw doing lumber jacking for someone .

what the hell is the point in prison if you don't try to make them less anti-social? its just a holding cell waiting for them to do something so vicious they get the chair. if you want brutal prisons and a rule-system that is totally ruthless on the smallest of crimes, you might aswell go over to instantly executing anyone who does anything criminal of a certain scale. that way you will save tons of money on both prisons and you will save the lives of those that he later on would kill because nobody thought about fixing them.

See the movie Sicko and watch the deleted scenes. Other countries have a prison system that not only works but is completely humane. The US Prison system is a reason why I wish I saw The Entire United States get destroyed in Cloverfield. Because we deserve it.

They should be treated like a human because they are human. If you were a real parent you would make sure this stuff didn't happen. And If I remember correctly it was the kids fault in this story was it not? It ussually is the girls fault. She probably seduced some of these guys with her clothing. In the begging she allowed these guys to come in pick her. She agreed to this stuff. Don't get mad at me but she seemed like a bit of a whore until you started to educate her. I am glad she has someone like you to show her there is more to life then this stuff. Because I think this stuff was really her fault. You said it wasn't completely her fault. It was completely her fault. She shouldn't be doing stuff like that online, she shouldn't be doing any of this stuff.

The thing about these guys is they need cooperation from the parent and the girl. The parent should be more responsible to what there child is doing and the girl should be smart.

In my honest opinion, nobody deserves prison. Nobody deserves the death sentence either.

So, someone rapes, kills, eats your mother...and you let him go just like that - no prison, no death sentence of any kind?

If you beat these people up, your no better then them.

Of cource I am better than the sick bastard who lurks at night, trying to rape drunk girls and beat them up. You're saying that by beating him up, thus saving a girl from rape, I'm just as bad as he is?

See the movie Sicko and watch the deleted scenes. Other countries have a prison system that not only works but is completely humane. The US Prison system is a reason why I wish I saw The Entire United States get destroyed in Cloverfield. Because we deserve it.

Dude, one word. MOVIE. Untill you've visited a prison from the inside, I suggest you hold no opinion about life there. Besides, where are jails a nice place? It's like saying - French criminals are far better behaved than US criminals, we deserve to be destroyed because of that!

Edited by Gosho, 20 January 2008 - 08:47 AM.

if you want brutal prisons and a rule-system that is totally ruthless on the smallest of crimes, you might aswell go over to instantly executing anyone who does anything criminal of a certain scale. that way you will save tons of money on both prisons and you will save the lives of those that he later on would kill because nobody thought about fixing them.

Exactly what my view has become.
Kill them (proven criminals) instantly.
Saves money and hassle.

Hell, let's just shoot anyone we find with weed. Yeah! Yeah! You know those punkass bitches I hear talking about drinking? They're underage! To the chair! That motherfucker's J walking! Where's my glock?

How is it the world has come to this? That a creature as intellectually powerful and complex as a human, could sucumb to such base, momentary, physical pleasures? That people could be brutally attacked, killed, and slaughtered over something as insignificant as an idea, and one no less than "I'm right and you're wrong." It just makes absolutely no sense. What's the reasoning behind violence? A subconcious need to have more - more land, more sex, more money, more pleasure? How did society degrade itself to the point where a blind eye is turned to those who have obviously committed wrong?
Sorry for the off-topic, but I just had a phylosiphical spell right then..
Cheers,
-mike

Hell, let's just shoot anyone we find with weed. Yeah! Yeah! You know those punkass bitches I hear talking about drinking? They're underage! To the chair! That motherfucker's J walking! Where's my glock?

Well, if you call that criminals I think you should be taken the piss out off...

Kill people and save money? Murder is Murder. I don't care who does it. NO ONE SHOULD EVER KILL SOMEONE UNLESS IT IS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES OR SOMEONE ELSE.

Someone is robbing your place. You call the cops. They come inside and shoot him. Does that sound like justice?

People can do stupid things. Many criminals (You'd be surprised) could be just going through problems. There lives are just as important as yours. So from my point of view if you should kill any criminals then everybody may as well just start killing each other. Because were all equal and who knows maybe if that criminal escapes he will change his life around and become quite more important than you. And you were the one who wanted him dead.

Well, if you call that criminals I think you should be taken the piss out off...

I really hope you were able to recognize that that was sarcasm.

Kill people and save money? Murder is Murder. I don't care who does it. NO ONE SHOULD EVER KILL SOMEONE UNLESS IT IS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES OR SOMEONE ELSE.

Thank you for justifing my point of view.

If you kill a paedophile or a rapist, are you not protecting someone else? Paedophiles don't just strike once, they strike repeatedly, and don't stop. If they have done it once, or twice they are bound to do it again. So, in order to protect some poor innocent child, they should be killed, so there is no chance of them ever doing it again.