78 replies to this topic

[Mr_FakeSmile]

WORM IS COMING!!!

[GDIZOCOM]

Iron Dragon

Chrono Prison

Phantasm

 

Iron Dragon for being a long range anti ground everything that isn't a structure (also because it fuels my Soviet radiance)

Chrono Prisons for stealing multiple enemy vehicles at once (nice miners you got there)

Phantasm because it fills the last role of reliable mobile heavy AA for Coronia (and because the forest moves while the turret also fires on the move) 

[lovalmidas]

WORM IS COMING!!!

 

EVA: Worm Sign.

...

...

EVA: Worm Attack. (unearthly sounds in the background)

[RedSky1335]

Looks like the Soviet's Grumble and Foehn's Archelon aren't getting much love. I have my theories as to why- I've only used Grumbles twice. First time was a 1v1, I was playing Russia against a USA enemy. I noticed Stormchild jets are too mobile and fire too quickly for Grumbles to stop them from doing their damage, but they'll take them down. Grumbles are actually really solid counters to Barracuda bombing runs! I was also making short work of small groups of Warhawks, but then my opponent realized that swarming the Grumble and forcing it to use its firepower on insignificant targets negates them very well. So before moving in with a Warhawk group, he'd throw a handful of Rocketeers spread out to take the shots, Warhawks come in and painted Grumbles, then Stormchild jets swooped in and blew the Grumbles away. Very impressive play on my opponent's part.

 

In a 3 player FFA where I was Russia vs Epsilon HQ vs. Pacific Front, I got ahold of Grumble tech but no one was using air... I managed to catch Norio when I think he accidentally set a waypoint path going directly overhead a few deployed Grumbles. Was hilarious how fast he died! But the real show was when the Irkala came up against my expansion base, I had a Stalin's Fist hidden just outside the base, cranked out 2 Grumbles as the Irkala killed everything in that base. Then it started retreating when I moved my Wolfhound squadron towards it, and I deployed the Grumbles. It was glorious. The Dyabuk-As that showed up to try and take out the Grumbles didn't last long.

 

As for the Archelon, I've found one use for it. It can't attack buildings/vehicles, but it's lethal to most infantry- but Foehn has better options for that. No, I use the Archelon as a Foehn medic. In late game, after you've made a few platoons of nanofibre synced Foehn troops, you want to protect that huge cash investment, right? Build 4 Archelons, and have them force fire on your own infantry clumps so that their nanobot swarms cover most of the infantry. A single shot from Archelon almost fully heals a Railgunner! When playing as Haihead, I assigned an Archelon to both Fin and Alize; when standing within their aura range of each other and under constant fire from Archelon, they are IMMORTAL. Combine with a few Buzzards and Teratrons and you have a demonic little task force that can do anything except destroy buildings. Besides that, I can only see Archelons being useful against large numbers of Brutes.

 

I see a bunch of people appreciate the Lionheart Bomber- but perhaps it is too expensive to be cost effective? Without Black Widow support, Lionhearts can't assault units inside bases without huge risk. A friend of mine told me a strategy he found to work really well with Lionhearts- accompany them with the new Hummingbird jets! If a large enemy force is moving around in the field but it won't hold still, slow it down and try to corral it into a clump using the Hummingbirds. Since they reduce speed and damage by -50% for 24 seconds, this gives lots of time to follow up with Lionheart bombing runs on clumps of slowed vehicles. I imagine Cryocpters/Warhawks and Rocketeers could also be blended into this tactic with great effect, since after the bombing run all the vehicles will be EMP'ed you get some free shots. Finally, Harriers might combo well with Lionhearts with their armor reducing effect; I don't think even a Centurion could withstand a Harrier/Lionheart strike.

 

It seems that certain stolen tech units have more synergy with certain subfactions than others; for instance, the Seitaad Ballista gives The Last Bastion a true artillery unit- without it, all they have is the Quezatal and Gharial, which only has 8 range so it's not a proper siege weapon. The Phantasm MLRS syncs up perfectly with Last Bastion because it uses the "Golden Rocket" system (which is so damned cool!) and TLB relies on those rockets more than the other two Foehn factions. Teratrons, all Shrike interceptors, Sweepers, and Giantsbanes are The Last Bastion units which use these rockets, tack on the Phantom MLRS and you now have a handful of units that use the same weapon for different purposes. The beauty of this is bringing in the SODAR vehicles for the +15% damage for any Golden Rocket users in scan range. Sweepers will wipe out infantry as the Giantsbane stuns them, Teratron/Phantasm/Giantsbane/Shrikes for AA, and Giantsbanes/Phantasms can destroy vehicles in between Sweeper volleys. Only weakness is against structures, but Uragon can take that role just fine.

[Damfoos]

I think Grumble isn't very popular because you can't do much with it, it is basically a mobile AA turret. Other vehicles allow you to harass your opponent, while Grumble is just "now sit there and wait until they attack" kind of unit. Sure, you can use it in offence too, but it is somewhat risky. Also, it can only attack air target, which limits its possible use (while Phantasms can wipe out anything but buildings, for example). As for Archelons, I don't know, they might be effective infantry killers, but you can easily lose them to Adepts, and it is a very big risk to use them against Psi-Corps. They can only handle infantry spam, and even then, they don't nullify Brute blobs in seconds, so they aren't really impressive in that role I think.

[Divine]

I did the same thing with a Rhino Tank and a Chrono Commando in vanilla... Good memories!

[hxazgalor]

Chronoshifter: Because who doesn't like a chrono tank that's also secretly an AEGIS cruiser at the same time? Plus, Solais' GIF says it all.

 

Future Tank Alpha: The X-0 in 3.0 was cool, but it was primarily meant to be heavy duty tank killing. With the Alpha, it's the same thing, but you get a much more badass robot super tank with a "Future grade arsenal" that also happens to include a particle collision cannon. It's overpowered (but not invincible) and it just lives up to that reputation.

 

Apocalypse: Admittedly I'm a sucker for huge tanks, and the Apoc is just that. It can even fire on the move, for heaven's sake! And now it's also a Drakuv with tesla cannons. Love it. Best describes Soviet armored doctrine at its highest potential.

 

Iron Dragon: Seriously OP if used carefully. These things are like artillery units in their own right, and they do a heck more damage than a column of Zephyrs can (obviously, since the Dragon is stolen tech). The low health means these things are paper tigers, but they can still deliver a deadly bite if one isn't careful. Plus, temporary invulnerability for nearby friendlies when it gets killed. A good way to steamroll a fortified base.

 

Wormqueen: I like the Scavenger, but it's got nothing on this killing machine. Psychic tesla bolts that can hit distant targets and turn them to ash in moments? Sign me up! Add to that the fact they can go almost anywhere they please and dish out a massive amount of pain before going WOOSH underground.

 

Salamander: Floating warship with confusion rays and ARO launchers. Divebomb bases, turn their forces against each other, and leave nothing but rubble behind. This really helps add some serious firepower to a more mobile Epsilon force.

 

Seitaad: Phantasms are fun, too, but the Seitaad is quite the monster (and is a whole lot better at getting rid of buildings). Nanofiber artillery plus EMP and you can level a base in no time, but of course you'll need a sizeable force to support the Seitaads as they make a bloody kind of art.

 

Ramwagon: I don't use Archelons much, and I always try to get this instead. I rarely use the hack ability, because I tend to amass a sizeable force of them that they tear down buildings like cutting up cardboard boxes caught in the rain. They're effective ground assault units, and when carefully commanded, you can easily wipe the floor with your enemies' forces with these dudes.

[RedSky1335]

I think Grumble isn't very popular because you can't do much with it, it is basically a mobile AA turret. Other vehicles allow you to harass your opponent, while Grumble is just "now sit there and wait until they attack" kind of unit. Sure, you can use it in offence too, but it is somewhat risky. Also, it can only attack air target, which limits its possible use (while Phantasms can wipe out anything but buildings, for example). As for Archelons, I don't know, they might be effective infantry killers, but you can easily lose them to Adepts, and it is a very big risk to use them against Psi-Corps. They can only handle infantry spam, and even then, they don't nullify Brute blobs in seconds, so they aren't really impressive in that role I think.

Maybe if it wasn't Epsilon tech that was required for the Archelon, it'd be better? Imagine if I was doing my "Archelon medic" trick, 4-6 Archelon's force-firing onto my big nano-synced infantry squads. The Archelons lose stealth when firing, so enemy player will be able to see them... worst possible thing that could happen is if they happened to have Dyabukk- Siezers! 4 of them fly over my infantry army, mind control a few Archelons as they are firing- when mind controlled mid-fire, the nanocloud becomes hostile en route to the target. Entire infantry army could be gone in seconds if some slick mind control micro was used to counter my Archelon healing strategy. Perhaps they need to be immune to mind control?

[aethiraes]

 

I think Grumble isn't very popular because you can't do much with it, it is basically a mobile AA turret. Other vehicles allow you to harass your opponent, while Grumble is just "now sit there and wait until they attack" kind of unit. Sure, you can use it in offence too, but it is somewhat risky. Also, it can only attack air target, which limits its possible use (while Phantasms can wipe out anything but buildings, for example). As for Archelons, I don't know, they might be effective infantry killers, but you can easily lose them to Adepts, and it is a very big risk to use them against Psi-Corps. They can only handle infantry spam, and even then, they don't nullify Brute blobs in seconds, so they aren't really impressive in that role I think.

Maybe if it wasn't Epsilon tech that was required for the Archelon, it'd be better? Imagine if I was doing my "Archelon medic" trick, 4-6 Archelon's force-firing onto my big nano-synced infantry squads. The Archelons lose stealth when firing, so enemy player will be able to see them... worst possible thing that could happen is if they happened to have Dyabukk- Siezers! 4 of them fly over my infantry army, mind control a few Archelons as they are firing- when mind controlled mid-fire, the nanocloud becomes hostile en route to the target. Entire infantry army could be gone in seconds if some slick mind control micro was used to counter my Archelon healing strategy. Perhaps they need to be immune to mind control?

 

 

Well Dybukk Seizer is Epsilon-Epsilon, so that situation is somewhat uncommon. 

 

They can't be immune to mind control because that would be hilariously broken. Seriously, rapidly eliminates infantry, resistant to tank shell, amphibious, stealthed, and resistant to mind control? No.

 

I think maybe they could have a deployable ability that lets them plant nanite bombs or something. 

[RedSky1335]

Hm, i like that deployable Archelon ability idea. Nanoswarm mines could be really cool, or maybe a "nova" of nanobots similar to Epsilon Adept's deploy ability. It'd probably have to leave the vehicle disabled for a few seconds; maybe that's when it could get temporary mind control immunity?

 

Either way, it seems that we have a solid consensus that the Archelon needs some love. Everything else is so badass and then you have the dinky Archelon. Looking at the role of stolen tech units, a pattern is very clear- they're mostly anti-unit with mild effectiveness vs. infantry armor, generally ineffective vs. structures, and then you have the specialists like Grumbler and Archelon. Archelon's offensive ability is limited completely to clumps of infantry, using its stealth to get in range and take shots. That alone wasn't enough for a stolen tech unit, so I think they made it an infantry healer in hopes of making it more unique and competitive with other stolen units, but it just comes up short. Compare it to the Sickle, which shares the inability to attack buildings, but has a personal Iron Curtain, super fast, and a weapon that annihilates infantry in groups (a lot like Morales' sniper rifle) as well as quickly frying lighter-medium vehicles, even performing well against heavy vehicles in numbers.

 

I kind of thought the Foehn's stolen Epsilon tech would be a combo of nano tech + gravity tech, rather than nano+stealth. Foehn isn't a stealthy faction, so it's kind of out of place. Imagine something like... an Athena Cannon platform, but instead of calling down Mercury strikes it fires down magnetic bursts like the support power. Damages/immobilizes vehicles for a few seconds, good vs. buildings, doesn't affect infantry unless they can be EMP'ed (Knightframes, Tesla Troopers, etc.) and is very fragile. Has a deploy ability which disables for several seconds after generating a nanobot cloud which slowly heals any Foehn that enter and damages enemy infantry that touch it. Something like this is balanced with weaknesses and the power we expect from stolen tech, the versatility needs to come at a steep price. It'll probably just remain a stinker that goes relatively unused, unfortunately.

[Meyerm]

In terms of tactical usefulness for me, lionheart, for when you want to level a base without putting any boots on the ground. 

 

In terms of fun to use, Chrono prison. All your tanks are belong to me. 

[Psionic Psychic]

Apocalypse and Wormqueen are the best.


P.S.: Syckle sucks

[CLAlstar]

P.S.: Syckle sucks

 

No

they don't

[Admiral_Pit]

Apocalypse and Wormqueen are the best.


P.S.: Syckle sucks

 

Triggered by that Syckle comment.  D:  I guess I better explain my favorites better really, starting with them bikes.

 

-Syckle:

As said on the site, it's definitely one of the best hit n runners, and with the best speed on the ground, it can do many things.  Sure it has poor HP, but you just gotta know how to use it, but I'll give you some hints to sum it up:

Iron Guard or Iron Curtain + Syckles = OP against any ground unit that's not immune against radiation.  Those who played me sometimes will know.  I would envision battling a Haihead with them would be less effective though since well... Megalodons are immune to radiation, but you get the idea.  All in all, as the unit says itself, "Don't underestimate the Syckle." (No really, you don't.)

 

(They're not immune to radiation like the site says though.  I recall Desos in Catas can still damage them, need to test this more)

 

 

-Iron Dragon

My all-time favorite, I feel this thing almost if not completely completes China, not because of the name either, but rather it being a non-Centy artillery that can take on units at long range (*evilly glares at Pacific Front*).  And China's EMP will make sure them units don't escape either.  I enjoy its voice, and all the sound effects it makes, especially when the projectile explodes... so glorious, and will make my enemies rightly tremble.  Anyways, great against all ground units, whether infantry or armor, but poor against buildings (which the Centy and Armadillos can deal with).  It's part of why that every time I'm against a Foehn, it's usually my goal to get the stolen tech, not just because I love the unit, but it's just so effective and brilliant, and it fuels my radiance.  For the non-believers, I will open their eyes.

 

As a bonus I forgot to mention, I also like it because it's showing the Soviets are advancing in their Iron Curtain technology more (same applies to Syckle for a miniaturized Iron Curtain on a unit) since we already know the Allies have been doing lots with their Chrono tech.

 

 

-Seitaad Ballista

It's probably underrated since it's often considered a lighter Godsbane with an EMP (for now), but I like it.  It helps against vehicles and buildings alike while Foehn, especially Coronia, have effective anti-infantry methods.  Something about its voice makes me think it's a crazy scientist of some sort, or maybe that's just me, but I like it, especially when it asks if you care for a piercing... or a hundred...  And something about tying stings together, etc. etc.

 

-Ramwagon

If you want a nice building-busting land unit, this is the one for you.  With decent speed, great turning speed, and nice durability, all it takes is just a small group of these to level a base or put huge dents in armor divisions if they aren't stopped quickly.  The hacking ability is honestly underrated too.  I'm certain you can use 1 of em to disable a factory, barracks, Radar, or even CY to slow down your opponent just before the unit dies.  To describe the unit, a mobile t3 Foehn defense with an AoE Raccoon disable ability (exclusive to buildings).

PS:  I like the "Vroom!" and "Ho ho ho!" voiceovers for it best.

[umbracatervae]

Just trying Quickshifter yesterday, and it's legit though. Bonus if you also bring a SEALs, Siege Cadres, Spies, or any unit that may change the tide.

[GDIZOCOM]

Since the Archelon has been discussed, I'll agree with the mentioned points that it's a huge slow amphibious *spammable Devourer* in its own right. Now, because it's stealthed (cloaked or whatever tier of invisibility you ought to use), has anyone tried a cheeky strategy of literally denying someone building space with Archelons? 

[Psionic Psychic]

Apocalypse and Wormqueen are the best.
P.S.: Syckle sucks

 
Triggered by that Syckle comment.  D:  I guess I better explain my favorites better really, starting with them bikes.
 
-Syckle:
As said on the site, it's definitely one of the best hit n runners, and with the best speed on the ground, it can do many things.  Sure it has poor HP, but you just gotta know how to use it, but I'll give you some hints to sum it up:
Iron Guard or Iron Curtain + Syckles = OP against any ground unit that's not immune against radiation.  Those who played me sometimes will know.  I would envision battling a Haihead with them would be less effective though since well... Megalodons are immune to radiation, but you get the idea.  All in all, as the unit says itself, "Don't underestimate the Syckle." (No really, you don't.)
 
(They're not immune to radiation like the site says though.  I recall Desos in Catas can still damage them, need to test this more)

*devious plan to trigger intensifies* *evil laugh*

But, actually, I don't think the Syckle suxks, it's just that I had big expectations to it since it's a stolen tech, but still, I think it's quite powerful, especially when you try and stop Bloatick rushes

[Nicholas Chau]

What's so weak about syckles? Sure they are useless against robots and units immune to radiation, but their ridiculous speed of 24 (which clearly is proof nuclear fuel is used in their engines), combined with their iron curtain and nasty radiation cannons makes them really nasty stolen tech units overall

Edited by Nicholas Chau, 16 January 2017 - 07:11 AM.

[Qeit]

Apocalypse - well, because it's Apocalypse.

Syckle - the best harasser in the game. I was worried about them... until I had tried them. Oh my God...

Iron Dragon - those are pretty cool and deadly.

Lionheart - good, but somehow tricky.

Seitaad Ballista - certainly like those, but generally I want them for LB. Well, for other subs Seitaad doesn't exclude Tarchia (amphibious) and Shadray (AA). Generally - good faction design.

Phantasm - "Pha-antasm". Because "Aren't the trees lovely?".

 

Thats the units I like. I didn't try Chrono Prisons yet and tried Scavengers only once, so not sure about this two.

[Scud]

My fav stolen units are the Iron Dragon and the classic of all the times, the Apoc Tank... but, the Phantasm quotes are too good to don't make use of them (specially the "Suddenly!- treeeess" one) and they pack a lot of punch with a big aod (even against air...) they are a must have if you are figthing against a massive HQ/WC force, if your ally is from one of the allied factions you could try to declare war on him to get access to them, is a nice trick when "change side during game" is actived.