264 replies to this topic

[fuggles]

The stalker bolter, I think in everything it's 50% of a sniper rifle but if it's an issue, back it goes - They have slightly more hp than the average scout, but a smaller squad size so melt if noticed.

Against the AI, all is spam.

[ZeusHammer]

The stalker bolter, I think in everything it's 50% of a sniper rifle

 

 

Tabletop-wise? Even if you give it 50% the raw damage a sniper rifle can do, it still has more than twice its rate of fire. Sniper rifles are good agains single targets, and morale. The kill just one guardsman (each), but the squad gets broken. Even if they have a decent armor penetration agains vehicles and buildings, they're still veeery slow, so that's not really an issue. Maybe their rate of fire could be lowered, and their armored penetration agains heavy targets. I just beat Chaos without even using long fangs, "just" seven full-boltered scout squads, and those buildings went down quite easily.

 

Test update:

• Chaos -> Not much, BUT I noticed that the sorceror's doombold did not cause knockback to my scouts. Cultists went down fast and my scout got invisible again. Tainted auspex idem.
• Dark Eldar -> Piercing vision to one squad, and down goes that squad, not much of a counter, I think (besides, DE are too few per-squad and too fragile). I won almost before I could even expand the heavy weapon arsenal.

Still... space wolves scouts do occupy 2 squad cap, and given their small number their use may need to be thought carefully... What about giving them just one heavy weapon upgrade at Tier 1, and two weapons once the research has been performed? I'll keep testing against other races (4 to go plus themselves) to see if any can put up a decent counter.

 

Brother fuggles does have a point that against AI anything is spam. Maybe I'm focusing on the wrong issue (on the other hand, I can't win with IG against vanilla SM on Biffy's Peril at Insane by spam alone... or at all, for that matter)... .

[thudo]

All AIs for all games for all plats are SPAM until we get dedicated AI chips which are coming then AI scripters will be out of a job and humans will be.. irrelevant!

[ZeusHammer]

Oh... I thought he meant that you can just spam anything against AIs and thus that doesn't mean that some race has a unit spam exploit ^^'

[thudo]

I suppose then it comes down to for whom spams the quickest?

[fuggles]

Yup, spam tacs, asm, banshees, reapers. The key to Dow is basically to build a lot of the same thing.

That said, I will examine the stalker bolter in line with suggestions presented.

[thudo]

Well that is called ALL RTSes however DoW3 takes it to the next level of shiet where I never thought possible...

[Roderick]

Some RTS have a more hard rock-scissor-paper system and therefore the key to win is to combine at least two types of units in the spam, three usually.

 

I thought that the key to DOW was getting the vehicles first.

[Kekoulis]

Well that is called ALL RTSes however DoW3 takes it to the next level of shiet where I never thought possible...

At least they will add an Apothecary as a DLC...

[Roderick]

Gambit (are you there?), could a FreeUI profile disable the reinforce button for those squads which don't need it?

Edited by Roderick, 09 November 2017 - 08:19 PM.

[fuggles]

Dow is too quick for that many tactics, or I'm old. The first person to lose a squad is pretty boned. But Roderick is partially right, however with sufficient tacmass you can overcome most vehicles.

Anyway yeah, I'll nerf it.

[Gambit]

Gambit (are you there?), could a FreeUI profile disable the reinforce button for those squads which don't need it?

Well, there must be a discriminating factor - one that does not exist in the other squads.

But I must ask Miros on this.

Also remember, not showing in the UI doesn't mean that the AI will not attempt to reinforce. Which means that for those squads, we will also need a new reinforce AI function (VERY easy to code!).

 

 

... I think though that we must first exclude a possible AE implementation.... I recall some squads in Night Lords that were NOT able to reinforce - brother Fuggles had made something "special" to them.

What was it about?

 

 

P.S.: The last week, I am lost in Limbo. Excuse any absence of mine, for a while

[fuggles]

Finger in the air time as I've not had chance to test it, probably too nerfed now!

 

https://www.mediafir...ves_attribs.zip

[Gambit]

OK, so I tested it and it is IMPOSSIBLE to "hide" the reinforce "+" button, via an AE configuration.

Brother Fuggles, keep the Souls cost (do not change anything in AE for that matter), and I will see what can be don with the use of FreeUI in due time. I must consult with brother Miros, but I am 99% positive we CAN come up with a really nasty trick

 

Just to make sure - the no-reinforcement mechanic is here to stay, right??

[fuggles]

Yes it's staying. There's no Rush - changing it was never in my radar as it works as intended. It's certainly not our messiest reworking of a system.

[fuggles]

Was that bolter any better?

[ZeusHammer]

I must say, I like the setup time, and damage seems still decent enough. I played a game against Necron, they kicked my butt (because I'm not that good, not because of balance issues, I think). I used three scout squads, but they were not my unit of choice for dealing damage, though they were a fairly decent support.

 

I was wondering if it could be preferable to make scout squads cost 1 squad cap. They have a seemingly decent damage output, though they require Tier II to be upgraded, but at that point  you may rather have two grey hunter squads with plasma rifles rather one scout squad. While I haven't hit the maximum cap in a game, and though you may reinforce scout squads while you can't reinforce pack squads, they still come in a small squad size, and I think they should cost just one squad cap, as for other marine mods and vanilla SM.

 

I want to test how good scouts are for chasing after enemy units. Sniper rifles take a lot to load, then deal one powerful shot. These still require some setup time, then require time to deal damage, giving perhaps enough time to get out of their way before they can be effective. Not necessarily a bad thing at any rate. I'll keep testing.

[fuggles]

No because you will see that only non reinforceable squads are 1 cap.

Also I want them to be support to the tacticals and I suspect that they would be super spammy if lower pop cap as they are pretty powerful stealth units- I personally would use them as capping units.

If you could just smash out a ton of scouts then the reinforcement mechanic is just irrelevant.

[ZeusHammer]

True, I hadn't thought of how fast you can produce them, for instance. My bad ^^'

[Roderick]

Would it worsen the balance to decrease the build time of BC and increase that of the scouts?