130 replies to this topic

[KebaxKapak]

Hello !
New to the modding world, but working on a mod for a few months (even years in fact)

My mod is about to be done, but I have some little issues I would like to fix before releasing it, and also I need some people to test it and tell me what they think

The aim is to have a realistic and rude feeling in the game.
A bolter would be a bolter and would kill a man in one shot.
That can give you an idea of what I'm trying to do.
I'll give a more detailed description further.

I have to make a warning : I'm not english, so try to forgive me if sometimes I make errors or if I don't understand some sentences

Thank you for reading, hope some people would be willing to help me out, those would surely be credited for their help and I would be glad and grateful

Hope we can manage to release a good mod, with a brutal and dynamic gameplay !

[KebaxKapak]

DESCRIPTION
 

I took some freedom on the codex and the rule book, I was aiming a realistic and rude feeling based on the fluff more than a table top based gameplay.

For example, there is no way in the galaxy a simple imperial guard could defeat a Space Marine in armor in a one on one fight or with his lasgun... am I wrong ?
So here it is, I tried to aim that feeling in the game that you can exterminate an infantry unit in a few seconds with a heavy bolter, or that a railgun can destroy a Landraider in one shot.
 

 

 

CAPS and limitations
I limited the army caps, basing the maximum cap of all the armies to an equivalent force to one marines company (if I don't do that Orks would need thousands boys to have a chance against the marines and my pc would absolutly not like it), yeah, you can't play one entire chapter, sorry, but what can't do one hundred space marines ? That's enough for a lot of things!

The real lack is about the AI that doesn't follow the new gameplay each time (some times the AI refuse to produce anything and just waits to be destroyed, don't know why,but sometimes not) and far less since I added the tyranid mod, but, I tested each army against each other army in one on one skirmish with maximum dificutly (AI against AI) for hours and the balance seems ok in a general way. My criteria was : if after half an hour nobody won, if AI against AI is ok I suppose a human player would be ok too. I let some battle last a few hours between Chaos and guards and when I came back, after 10 thousand death guards no army was in position to win against the other. Since then I made multiple little changes so, I constantly rework on the balance, it's really not the final cut.
In fact, I have to learn how to change the AI before all, but I have really no clue about how.

 

 

RACES

Space Marines : Powerfull and polyvalent but really (really) expensive in time cost to reinforce and produce, don't send your troops to death unless it's needed for the will of the emperor
Guards : Send them in mass to protect your vehicles and artillery, wich are the ones that make damages, a lot are going to die
Orks : We all know orks, just send them to the fight, more they are better is the chance to reach some guard cheeks with some choppa
Eldars : fast and efficient but not resistant, they have a good accuracy when moving, good for fast attack and retreat, harassement, don't let them under fire, they will die
Tau : Long distance weaponnery, really powerfull, you know the deal with the melee, kroots are here for that
Chaos : Slow but powerfull, bolters always do the job. Less accuracy and efficiancy than loyal marines but faster to produce. Demons are practical to take the range hits while you're moving to the enemy, or to send on heavy weapons or tanks. The sorcerer can invocate demons. Oh yeah and chaos cultists can be devastating if you make them charge like kamikazes with their plasma shotguns (short short range, low low accuracy, weak weak owner... but plasma; why would'nt they have plasma shotgun ? Ok, if you're not happy with that maybe I'll give them their lazpistols back)
Necrons : Really slow but really resistant, I made them more like T-800 than weak skulls, their desintegrating weapons work well on every units, vehicles too... it's changing any material into particles so it's meant to work on vehicles too, I suppose. If there is any Necrons expert it I'm willing to make some changes.
Tyranids : what should I say, send all your creatures to the enemy (I didn't worked on the tyranids as much as on the other armies, so there could be some changes to do; it's difficult to know what dammage would really do tyranid weapons on diverse units such as vehicles to make it look plausible and have a realistic feeling)
By the way, I would like to thank the Tyranid Mod guy, wich I don't know who he is, but thank you for your work. I'll surely credit you in my mod if you allow me to use your creatures !

 

Units production and production costs
There are special requirements to produce most of the units that are not basic troops.
For exemple, to produce your chaos sorcerer you must have (as far as I remember) produced 4 chaos cultists units and 5 Chaos Marines units.
To produce demons you must have cultists units and a sorcerer etc etc
That prevents the AI from producing only comand units and sending them alone to death against your whole army and so, when the AI is willing producing anything, it resulsts in beautifull visually and military well balanced armies (but if I ever have a clue about how to mod the AI I would surely change this to include it in their behaviour)

In some races you can produce certain units in the strategy point turrets

 

I supressed the requisition and energy cost (I forgot some units, buildings and research costs here and there, I will fix it, but it doesn't really affects the game) so it doesn't interfer with the gameplay based on the time cost of the units.
I'll work on a requisition and energy system later.. maybe.. it's not really needed in the game, but I'll think about it
In some races having some building or some units can reduce the time cost of other units (having a big boss allow you to produce boys and nobs faster; but at the opposite having a chaos sorcerer  increase the time cost of the berserkers, because Tzeensch and Khorne are not best friends, but it allows you to have horrors)
In most races having energy buildings reduce the time cost of vehicles.

Weapons
Laz cannons are really powerfull, you can destroy many vehicles in one lucky hit or two (same for infantry, most of the units can't survive to lazgun shot)
Missiles are the same, a bit less powerfull but they always explode, even if you miss, so maybe the most devastating weapon. Avoid missile turrets or destroy them quick, specially the guard turrets
Range weapons in general are powerfull, most of the units die really fast if you don't do some dynamic micro-strategy. Use terrain to cover them, unless you're the aim of some basilisk and it's screwed, then send some soldiers to a suicide mission to destroy artilery, well, you'll find some ways.

Heavy Bolters are powerfull, they can destroy most of the vehicles with more or less efficiency, specialy if there are many of them. Infantry have no way against heavy bolters.
Artillery, I talked about it already, destroy it or keep your distances and be stealth.
Plasma can destroy vehicles and most of the infantry, if you're lucky one shot is enough

Bolters, with one bolt you can kill most of the infantry units, with 4 or 5 bolts you can kill a space marine, if you're really lucky one bolt might be enough. Ten bolters against a chimera ? The chimera is screwed. Diamond point auto-motorized (sorry for my english, I'm improvising) bolts are described as able to pierce any material.
Lasguns... well, is more to reassure the guard than to kill enemies, but when their are many of them it can make a difference. Anyway if you're lucky you can kill a Tau in one or two hits, but the tau might have killed you before you saw him
Orks range weapons in general : sometimes surprisingly efficient, most of the time miss the aim, but a lot of shoota a lot of dead enemies

Eldar range weapons in general : good accuracy, really efficient but more specialized, you can't stand against an armored vehicle with shuriken weapons
Necron range weapons : really accurate (they are robots and they defeated the old ones) but low range, they have to walk slooowly to the enemy and reduce him into particles, even vehicles
 

Melee
20 guards against one berserk have no chance, they are already dead.
I still need to improve it a bit (specially on the reload time of each unit in melee) but it works already
Force hammers and energy fists can destroy a vehicle
Don't turn your back if the enemy have range weapons, if you run you'll be shot in the back and most of the time destroyed
When in melee units take far less damages, basicaly the more the unit is big the more it can be aimed by the units that are not engaged in the melee, and so the more it takes damages

Sight and keen sight :
All units have a basic keen sight (because... how can't you see those invisible scoots ?? Shooting at you with bolters right in front of you nose ?? You can even smell them !!) depending of their natural ability and awareness
Most of the time sergeants, special units and command units have more sight and more keen sight than basic troopers.
Orks don't see really far, you'll have to send them straight ahead if you want to know what is up somewhere, or send some grots, don't bother if they die
Eldars have good keen sight for most of them
Tau have special units with good sights
The assassin and the psyker are really usefull to the guards, an assassin guiding some basilisks.. really efficient
Basic tyranids are lost without the synapse units, they don't see really far, but they can smell, so their keen sight is equal to their sight
Chaos and Marines are pretty much the same, the sorcerer can see further than the librarian, and both races are a bit better than humans in sight and keen sight
 

 

Regeneration
You'll see some units such as Marines and Necrons regenerating more or less fast for different reasons.
Necrons can't feel pain, they will fight untill they are physically unable to do it and they are made of self healing metal
Energetic armour can take a lot of damages before being pierced, and once it's done a space marine can survive to wounds that would have killed tree men, so I made the space marines regenerating fast.
Chaos Marines don't regenerate as fast because their armor are less efficient.

 

Other considerations
I tried to make two more things and failed at it :
1) The units have a normal speed but when in combat situation they are faster (when someone is shooting at you you tend to be a bit faster in your moves)
2) The units sight is far reduced when they are in melee and their keen sight is near than 0 for most of them (when someone is trying to cut you into pieces you don't take the time to look around you), depending on the natural "awereness" of each unit
But I failed on those two parts, it doesn't seem to work, unless for the movment, some times chaos marines are faster but I can't explain why. Anyway, they reach the good speed so, i guess I'll try to fix that later

 

 

What then ?

well before releasing it I need some help to fix little (or bigger) issues, it comes from fixing the name of some new units in the game, to how to mod the AI (just have to tell me how to do and I'll do it),or changing the name of my mod, testing it, finding some maps files that I can't find anywhere but that are playable and that I'd like to include in the mod (some maps I made) and a few more stuff that would make the mod ... not perfect but at least pretty cool !

Thanks for reading, hope there are some willing and enthousiast people !

Edited by KebaxKapak, 26 June 2020 - 04:35 AM.

[Moreartillery]

I can't download the mod folder from google drive, you need to zip it before uploading.

 

btw open the mission editor and try saving your map to a new location, like the desktop.

 

Also read the AdvanceAIGuide in the ai\doc folder, it explains alot!

Edited by Moreartillery, 26 June 2020 - 03:24 PM.

[KebaxKapak]

Ok man I'll zip it in the next hours

Concerning the mission editor, I tried to do that many times, but it always fail.
A warning window pops saying that :
"The selected file is outside of all know scenario folders.

The missioneditor can only write to files that are under the root folder

Root: C:/... ...THQ/dawn of war - dark crusade
file: C:/...  ....Desktop/Kebaxstation.sgb

 

And then the saving is canceled and I can only save the files in the root folder of Dark Crusade.
Each time I do (I tested to save it in other mods mp folders, and even directly into the root folder) the files still don't apear when I go by myself into the concerned folders

Thanks for the AI, I'll read it man !

[KebaxKapak]

Ohyeah and there is another thing
When I save the file there is often a window poping saying that :
"The scenario file has change and may no longer match the localized name of the the scenario. Proceed ?"

As I don't really understand what is the point and as it doesn't make the map anavailable for playing and editing I didn't bother until now
But maybe it has to do with the general problem of not finding the files anywhere

[KebaxKapak]

*AI issues*

the advance AI guide really helps a lot but I have a question before making changes : How do I open the .ai files without risk ? I don't want to corrupt the files or don't know what that would make it unusable

[KebaxKapak]

Cool man, thank you and welcome
I'm loading the ziped mod on google drive, it takes time but i'll post the link as soon as it's ready

[thudo]

the advance AI guide really helps a lot but I have a question before making changes : How do I open the .ai files without risk ? I don't want to corrupt the files or don't know what that would make it unusable

That is like anything on any platform or OS: you have no assurances but, TRUST ME, .ai files are text files but understood in DoW1 so you are safe.

 

Btw, there are PLENTY of AI tuts and a hundred DoW1 projects which use their own AI so you have tons of reference material to adopt what you need.

[KebaxKapak]

 

the advance AI guide really helps a lot but I have a question before making changes : How do I open the .ai files without risk ? I don't want to corrupt the files or don't know what that would make it unusable

That is like anything on any platform or OS: you have no assurances but, TRUST ME, .ai files are text files but understood in DoW1 so you are safe.

 

Btw, there are PLENTY of AI tuts and a hundred DoW1 projects which use their own AI so you have tons of reference material to adopt what you need.

 

 

Thanks for your advises !
I tried to make some changes based on the advance AI guide, but I did not manage to solve my issues.
The AI often does nothing, no building, no squad, just waiting, but I looked in all the .ai files and it's seems like everything is ok, based on the guide informations.

Thanks for helping !
I'll put a download link in the next post so anybody can download the mod and take a look and maybe have an idea of what is going on with the AI.

 

[thudo]

Running with -DEV to unlock all logs? Those will tell you the issue.

[KebaxKapak]

SO
after some strugles

FINALY

here it is, the link to download the mod :
 

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

Warnings :
It seems like some (maybe most, don't know) of the attrib files of the tyranids have been "cleared" and so, I have to mod them again. You can fight against them or use them but they are not modded like the other races so they are not balanced at all.
As you know I am encountering some AI issues, so some armies might just wait for their destruction sometimes (happens a lot with the Eldars). Usualy guards and necrons are the ones who make the effort to "play" so I suggest you to fight against them in priority. Also, it would give you the occasion see how much damage weapons do against humans, it's easier to know then if you think some weapons should make less or more damage than they do considering what you know about this weapons fluff caracteristics (there are some weapons I didn't manage to get a precise idea of what they would really do, moslty tyranid weapons so I base my definitive conclusions on what they feel like in the game).
Remember that I am not aiming the tabletop rules but more a realistic and brutal feeling, as I think 40K should be.

 

If ever you can play to the following maps (wich might be included in the mod) : Urban Try, Test One and Giant project (or Kebax Station)
those are maps in project (excepted for Test One wich is finished); they are ready to be played, just need to improve and add some details and decals.
If ever you are able to find the files of those maps I would be really grateful you'd send them back to me, cause I have issues with them (the maps are playable, and I can edit them, but no way to find the files to copy and share them).

Here are some screenshots of the maps :

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing,

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing
 

Thanks to every one willing to help in this project !

Edited by KebaxKapak, 27 June 2020 - 08:01 PM.

[KebaxKapak]

Running with -DEV to unlock all logs? Those will tell you the issue.

 

I'm not sure to understand how, this is one of the points I did'nt understand in the advance AI guide (I'm not really good at informatic and english is not my mother thongue so I have some issues sometimes)

[KebaxKapak]

I don't really know, maybe you'll need the tyranid mod.
I'll learn it from you and the people that will download it ^^

Basicaly you need the 1.2 patch, that's all I know now

Hope it will work for you !
If you have issues tell me we will find a way

[KebaxKapak]

I forget to ask but did i need other mods to make it work or it is a standalone ?

In the mod studio there is a window named "required mods"
the only mods writen there are :
DXP2 (wich as I understood, but I really might be wrong, is the 1.2 patch module file)
and
W40k (wich is the vanilla game module file, but again, I may be wrong)

So as far as I understood you just need the game and the 1.2 patche (But if you played Ultimate Apocalyspe as you told me, you must already have the patch)

[KebaxKapak]

Well you will download a zipped folder, just unzipp (extrais) the content in the root folder of dark crusade (program files/THQ/dawn of war - dark crusade) with winrar or 7zip (or what you use usualy)
Make sure there is both parts of it :
- One file .module
- One folder

Both are named M42 (that is name of the mod I used as a base for mine, still I didn't change the name of it, hope I'll manage to do it)

So extract both and just put them into the mod folder.
Then launch the game and select the M42 mod into the main menu, the game will restart and with some luck it will work

If the game crashes it's because maybe another mod is needed or for another reason. Then just put my mod (the folder and the module) outside your root folder or delete it and the game should work when you'll launch it again.

[thudo]

Please start reading HERE.

[Moreartillery]

I got it working, there are no required mods.

 

Look in here for your maps, I think the modtools save files here if they don't have permission to save in the normal place.

C:\Users\Username\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\THQ\Dawn of War - Dark Crusade

 

from answers.microsoft.com/

 

To summarise, the hidden VirtualStore folder is part of the virtualization technology that was introduced in Windows Vista. This was intended as a compatibility feature to allow old programs to continue working when using User Account Control and running as a Standard User. It is surprising that you are encountering problems seven years later. This was a temporary fix intended to be removed in some later release of Windows.

 

For a program to be eligible for virtualization, it must be 32bit, not running with administrator rights and must not have been compiled with a manifest file indicating it is for Vista or later.

You can see the virtualization status of a program by adding the Virtualization column to the Processes page in Task Manager.

When a virtualized program attempts to write to a protected location such as Program Files, Windows will intercept the access denied response and redirect the write to C:\Users\<name>\AppData\Local\VirtualStore, which is a hidden folder.

When a virtualized program attempts to read from a protected location, Windows will first check for a copy of the file in VirtualStore. If it finds it, it will use that copy. Otherwise it will attempt to read from the original file.

 

This normally works fine if you always use the program and the files it creates from a Standard User account. You can see that if you are trying to use the files from other programs which are not virtualized or sometimes you run with Administrator rights, you will be reading and writing different locations and seeing inconsistent results. For example, you write a file to Program Files as a Standard User, it gets redirected to VirtualStore. You later run a program with Administrator rights and try to read this file. Since you are not virtualized, Windows will read directly from Program Files and not find the file there.

tl;dr always run modtools as administrator.

Edited by Moreartillery, 29 June 2020 - 05:02 PM.